As you may have read, I too use a Mat2 on my MK3, with no rubber in between. There were a few who don't like the Mat2, which is their right of course. I also do like the SAEC SS300 on the Mk3 and on my TT101. |
enginedr, I am inclined to go along with Chakster; I would dump the rubber mat. But you have the luxury of choice and experimentation. Try it with vs without the rubber. Don't forget to change VTA accordingly. I would be curious to know how that turns out.
I am not sure laying a rubber mat on top of a platter meets the true definition of CLD. For CLD, I think disparate layers need to be held together by a force greater than gravity. On the other hand, it's not hard to imagine that the floppy rubber on top of the metal does do something, for better or worse. I keep the original rubber mat for my SP10 Mk3 just because it's correct and original to the TT, but I wouldn't think of actually using it. |
Slaw, to the contrary, most all the posts ARE relevant to the OP's question. Mostly the posts speak to the "why" part or to the sonic signature of one mat or another. From that it should be obvious that the mat makes a big difference in sonics. (At least I believe so.) For info related specifically to the VPI Scoutmaster, one would need to know which of a few different possible platters is mounted on the OP's turntable (from what I can tell, VPI offers a few options) and to have auditioned more than one mat on that particular platter. That qualification would narrow the audience for this thread by quite a bit. |
I mentioned above that I was about to experiment with a custom-made copper mat for my L07D. Well, I now have done the experiment, and copper is a winner over the OEM stainless steel platter sheet. I was very surprised at the degree to which the copper sounds better. The background is as follows: On the "L07D Owners" website, hosted by Howard Stearn (not THAT Howard Stern), there is a suggestion that one might wish to do something to block EMI from the motor that might affect the cartridge. The standard stainless steel mat ought to be at least somewhat effective in doing that, but Dr. Stearn and others suggested that a little more could be done. I originally used a piece of TI Shield cut in the shape of an LP, inserted between the platter and the platter sheet so it was invisible. This did make an audible improvement. However, when I tried to use a very low output MC on my L07D, there was a problem. The magnetic rotor of the L07D motor was inducing magnetism in the TI Shield, which is ferrous. Before I noticed this, I nearly crushed the suspension of my Ortofon MC2000. So I had to ditch the TI Shield for MC cartridges. This resulted in a noticeable degradation of the sound, already suggesting that one must block EMI somehow. Other L07D owners use ERS cloth between the platter and the platter sheet, but I was reluctant to do that because it would mechanically decouple the two components and is likely to affect sonics. (For all I know, it could be fine to use ERS, too.) I then hit upon the idea to use a copper platter sheet. Copper is much more effective at blocking EMI than stainless steel. I sent photos of the original, and the dimensions and desired weight, to a machinist, Colby Lamb, in Oregon, and Colby made my copper platter sheet which exactly matches the original SS platter sheet in appearance except for being about one pound heavier, and by the way is gorgeous to look at.
With the copper mat, a faint gray-ish coloration that I had noticed since removing the TI Shield is now gone. The music is much more "open" sounding and does not lie on the speakers, as it had done when I was using no extra shielding at all. There is a lot more "bloom" and spaciousness. So, my friends, block your EMI, especially if you are using a coreless motor; the field of a Dual-type coreless motor is directed vertically toward the bottom of the platter. (Both the L07D and the TT101 and many other coreless TT motors are copies of the original Dual coreless motor.) It's possible that an iron core motor has much less tendency to radiate EMI that might affect sonics, because its field is in the horizontal plane rather than the vertical. This is purely a guess on my part. |
bdp24, That's the crux of the matter, when it comes to platter mats, the transmission, or lack thereof, of energy between the LP and the platter. Do you want that or don't you want that? Each of us has to answer that question "by ear". If you want that, you use a platter mat that is similar in material construction to an LP, then you clamp the LP, and you might also use a peripheral ring and/or vacuum hold-down, if the TT permits. If you don't want that, use a Resomat or one of those with cork dots on it, no weight or clamp, no peripheral ring. Most tune by ear using a combination of energy absorbing and energy reflecting techniques. |
I'd favor Delrin over acrylic, for no good reason. Just a "feeling" combined with the fact that I am not a fan of acrylic platters to begin with. |
Chakster, With reference to my earlier post about EMI, one reason you may like the copper mat on the SP10 is its capacity to block EMI. On my L07D, I am about to compare the OEM stainless steel "platter sheet" (Kenwood's name for the ~5 lb stainless steel platter mat on the L07D) with a replica that I had made using copper instead of stainless steel. Copper ought to be better than SS for blocking EMI. The OEM and the new copper mats weigh the same, about 5 lbs. So the comparison should enable me to discern whether EMI is an issue. The MK3 has a huge thick hefty platter with brass and other metals, probably adequate to do a better job of blocking EMI than does the Mk2 platter.
I agree about the SAEC SS300. I bought mine from Raul. |
"coreless", not "cordless" |
bondmanp, Thanks for that info. I will look into that mat for use on the TT101, which also has a coreless motor. Both the TT101 and the L07D motors are derived from the original Dual cordless motor (as is that of the newer Bergmann DD turntable). In these motors, the stators and rotors are oriented 90 degrees differently from those in typical iron core DD motors, such that I think there would be a field directed upward toward the LP. In any case, the L07D behaves as if there is. I've often thought of buying a meter to measure the field strength, but so far thought has not turned into action. |
enginedr1960, Are you blocking EMI with the ERSA mat? I ask because this is worth doing for some DD turntables. On the L07D website, one is advised to do something about that, even though the L07D has a 5-lb stainless steel "platter sheet", which one would think has at least some effect on blocking EMI radiating from its coreless motor. Nevertheless, and in agreement with the advice on the L07D website, I hear improvements with a piece of TI Shield between the platter and the platter sheet. I have had a copper platter sheet made, which mimics all dimensions of the stock stainless platter sheet, in hopes that it will better block EMI, and I will be able to remove the TI Shield. It's "in the mail" coming to me as I write this. (TI Shield causes issues with some LOMC cartridges, because it contains iron; the L07D motor stator induces a magnetic field in the TI Shield, which sucks down on LOMC cartridges. No free lunch, I guess.) |
dorkwad, In what respect are you agreeing with noromance? Noromance uses an LP as a platter mat, not a bare platter. And really, using a bare platter only means that you are placing the LP on a surface that is native to that particular platter. In other words, one man's bare platter is not another man's bare platter, unless both use the same turntable. Parenthetically, LPs have rounded circumferential edges that I think were once put there so that when one is using a record changer, the piled up LPs on the spindle do not make contact with each other on the playing surfaces. Therefore, noromance is technically suspending the LP in space. That's the idea of the Resomat, too.
I've got an upgraded Lenco, too. The platter was sprayed with a dampening paint. Then I use a BA Mat1 on top of that. Anyway, my only point is that mats are like seasoning on food. There is no universal right answer, and what to use is not subject to a vote. I can sub in the SAEC SS300 metal mat on any of these three turntables, and that changes the sound by a very little bit, perhaps toward more of the sound that noromance prefers, perhaps better reproducing the leading edge of transients. Not sure. I certainly do not perceive the detrimental effects that noromance describes. His entire vinyl system is geared to a big, in your face sound, which I kind of like too. (I had a Decca London for years and enjoyed it very much.) |
I guess I'm a zombie, in that case. To each, his own. The BA mats have lots of fans, not too many detractors. What turntable, tonearm, cartridge? I use the BA Mat2 on my SP10 Mk3 with Reed tonearm and ZYX UNIverse cartridge. I also use a Mat2 on on my Victor TT101 with FR64S tonearm and a few different cartridges. I do also like the SAEC SS300 mat on the Victor, about as good as the BA Mat2 but slightly different sonic balance. |
Noromance, What you experience as "energy suck" is what some others might experience as proper dissipation of spurious energy that would otherwise generate resonant frequencies audible in playback. I am not saying that you are "wrong" and the others (including me) are "right". I am only saying that this is one of the eternal debates in audio. How much damping is too much? So far, for me, the BA Mat2 is the best I have heard for conveying a very neutral sound. I use the term "neutral" to indicate that I do hear a reduction in colorations that might be generated at the cartridge/LP interface. (Perhaps this is what you call "energy suck"; I cannot deny that those juicy colorations are addictive.) Paradoxically, another favorite mat, for me, is the SAEC SS300, which is metal, and so one would think that it does not interface with the LP as energy as the Mat2 might do, because the latter is made of graphite or something similar to vinyl in propagation of energy.
I have really disliked rubber or rubber-y mats that I have tried.
Waiting to hear from fans of the Resomat, for a completely different take. |
