Tri-planar vs Graham


What are the sonic differences/characteristics of a Tri-planar versus a Graham arm?

I just acquired a Raven One turntable but already had a Tri-planar arm. I read a lot of posts by Raven One owners that have Graham arms so I’m curious.
madfloyd

Showing 5 responses by dougdeacon

Hi Peter,

Ian's Alaap reproduced harmonic overtones his system couldn't handle without ringing at higher listening volumes. It's possible this change to a harmonically more transparent/less ringy turntable and tonearm might have eliminated the ringing and allowed him to enjoy what the Alaap can do. Now he'll never know (unless he tries another one). :-(

As you say, it's also possible that other components and interactions were contribting to the ringing. I'm unfamiliar with his speakers, amps and wire. IME, most SS amps aren't particularly adept at reproducing higher order harmonics cleanly, or at all, but that's just a generic statement which may or may not apply to Ian's amps.

Just saying it's a pity that due to the short trial he may never know...

Peter,

When I suggested Ian’s other preamps were less than first-class, I was of course referring to the two I’ve actually heard. I didn’t know he owned any others, including the three you mentioned.

I didn't know you’d tried his Alaap in your system. I couldn’t comment even if I did know, since I wasn’t there to hear it. :-)

Dan_Ed wrote, regarding the Alaap in your system:
What I heard with the Alaap in your system was not ringing. In fact it was just the opposite as I told you in an email. There maybe the first couple of harmonics coming through, but the rest are squashed into one impulse response or tossed out all together. This is just one other approach to music reproduction and it yields a quiet, pleasant rendering of music.
This sounds like what I've heard from much very good SS gear, not to mention many well regarded speakers with soft dome tweeters, one or two very popular cartridges and a vast number of interconnects and cables.

Harmonics that are tossed out altogether are at least bearable (to my ears and Paul's). Harmonics squashed together will send both of us (especially him) flying from the room in literal pain.

Arthur Salvatore introduced a new sonic parameter in his (long) review of his new favorite speakers, the Coincident Pure Reference. He called it "individuation", meaning the ability of a component or system to allow the listener to identify individual voices and instruments during even highly complex passages.

A component which tosses harmonics out makes individuation difficult or impossible. If the stereo plays an "A" and all you hear is the 440Hz fundamental sine wave, you won't know if it was a clarinet, a violin or a human.

A component which squashes harmonics together individuates even worse, since it not only disguises each voice but also mushes voices together when they're playing or singing in concert. Listen to a live choir without electronic amplification. You don't hear an alto voice, a soprano voice, a tenor voice. You hear Mary and Joan and Fred, hopefully singing in harmony, but always as individuals.

Paul and I have been seeking greater individuation from our system for years (without having particularly named it). It is one of our primary criteria for deciding whether any component, tweak or adjustment is an improvement or not. Any component, tweak or adjustment which damages individuation is a downgrade by our priorities. Others listen differently of course. Even Dan, with whom we agree on most things audio, once said he didn't give a d@#% what a harpsichord sounded like or whether his system could reproduce it well. He might think differently now, I don't know, but if a system can reproduce a harpsichord really well (a fiendishly difficult challenge, harder than piano in some ways) then it's probably capable of reproducing nearly anything well.

Heh! We went to a symphony concert the other night and the sound of the Steinway, from just 9-10 rows back, made me despair of ever getting any stereo to work right. The Steinway wasn't even set up properly, but it still embarasssed the best our system can do. I once set up a new rig for George Walker, the Pulitzer prize winning composer. After 5 hours of work I spun up a piano LP and (foolishly) asked him if it didn't sound more real than his old rig. "Well", he replied, "it sounds better. But it still doesn't sound like my Steinway to ME." He proceeded to demonstrate, playing us a piece he'd written 60 years earlier (he was nearly 90 at the time). He was right, obviously.
Marco,

As Syntax says, a ZYX cartridge is an excellent match with a Triplanar, PROVIDED the cartridge includes ZYX's optional silver headshell weight. If it doesn't, bass response and macro-dynamics will suffer, because a bare 5g ZYX cartridge is lighter than optimal for a tonearm with an effective mass of only 11g.

The Phantom's effective mass is similar to the TriPlanar's, so the same caveat would apply.

You could address this by adding weight to the headshell. ZYX offers one and so do others, though this may have unknown effects on resonance behavior.
Thom made the perfect response and Raul asked the key question which cuts to Thom's point:

"What do you dislike on your Tri/Xv-1? or what are you loking for/ want to improve?"

Well, Ian has never heard his new TriPlanar, not even for a minute. It's sitting in a box waiting for a turntable, so he has no idea what he's looking for or wants to improve. When I got my TriPlanar before my table was ready, I spent four hours investigating it, handling it and learning how all the compenents interact. Such is not Ian's way. He prefers gear-swapping, which he's posted himself is "lots of fun".

Ian, you should dump the TriPlanar and buy a Phantom. I've never heard a Phantom, but whether it's "better" or "worse" or how it differs is moot. As long as it's different (and it's bound to be different from a TriPlanar you've never heard) you'll have scratched your itch one more time. Should the Phantom arrive before the Raven, you'll have time to do it again. I say go for it.
This wasn't so much about gear lust or desiring something new but wanting reassurance that synergy wasn't going to be an issue. I've made some huge mistakes when it comes to synergy...
Getting synergies right is vitally important and can be difficult, as you say. Paul and I have been very lucky in that respect, but if you've suffered through expensive mishaps I understand your desire for reassurance.

As you now hear, there are no synergy issues between XV-1S and TriPlanar. Dan_Ed and others with that combo could attest to that, as I could from hearing the combo in several systems. There are certainly no issues between the Raven and a TriPlanar (or any other arm, probably).

I admit I'm shocked to find a table and arm could make this much difference.
:-) :-) :-)

Table and phono stage first
Tonearm a close second
Cartridge a distant third

This has always been the appropriate upgrade order and probably always will be. Linn has been saying so for 30 years. The number of people who mistakenly believe they will get first class sound just by dropping a first class cartridge onto a second class rig seems to be innumerable - though it just dropped by one. ;-)

Glad to hear you're happy and finally getting sound you enjoy. It may be a bit disappointing to have ditched a first class preamp for a second class one due to problems which had nothing to do with the preamp, but I agree you should enjoy the new front end and work to optimize/maximize it before you go there again. Among other things, your MintLP, when it arrives, should provide another clear upgrade from the alignment you probably achieved in that single effort with the stock protractor.

As Nick says, enjoy music, tolerate equipment!