Actually in the right channel. Tonearm is a well tempered ‘black’ arm. |
@mijostyn Interesting that you believe the WTA is not a good arm. Yes, it does have characteristics of a uni pivot, but it also has zero bearing noise or 'pivot chatter'. I do think that there are certainly better arms out there, but would like to know why you think the 'WTA' arm is not good--and why you think it is worse than a uni pivot?
My version is the 'black' arm with the Van Den Hul internal cabling.
Meanwhile, i am going to adjust the AS. |
@mijostyn I'm not following you with regards to your point about the WTA having added mass?The WTA is one of the lightest tonearms around, so light that I can use it with no issues even on my LP12, without disturbing its ultra sensitive suspension. I also don't follow you with your point about the longitudinal resonance...how is this?
I do agree that the WTA has a lot of design issues, along with its brilliance. One of my biggest issues with it is that none of the adjustments are that precise, along with a propensity for these adjustments to not stay through time. The azimuth adjustment is a good example of this. OTOH, the fact that the arm is well damped does help with a number of cartridges that put a lot of energy into the arm, ala the Lyra's. Lastly, isn't the Kuzma 4 point still basically a uni pivot design? |
@rauliruegas While I know that the 4 Point is not exactly a uni pivot, and does attempt to do away with the issue of 'rotating on the point' that afflicts the true uni pivot design, I think it has much more in common with a uni pivot than a gimbal design. |
@tomic601 Thanks for the post. I haven't had a chance to try the table yet, but I have increased the AS a little. There is no exactitude to the arm adjustments, so it is probably a little bit of trial and error. I do question whether Mijostyn's point about the tonearm not being a great match for the Lyra is correct. He may have a point, but the SQ is extremely good on most LP's. Your Triplanar is a superb arm, just wish it could work on an LP12! |
@tomic601 Wearing out the Kleos is not really part of my plan. I have considered jumping ship on the Linn, simply due to its severely hobbled tonearm scenario, but i still like the basic platform. ( plus, with the new Karousel bearing, it sounds better than ever!) There is a new Naim Aro on the market, this with their new table combo. I am hoping that Naim will consider selling the Aro separately. Otherwise, it is the old war horse---Ekos SE/1 |
@rossb I think that is a good suggestion. I would like to have an arm with more adjustment than the PU7, but I would certainly not discount the PU7. Did you have the Kuzma 4 point 9? If so, was it on the LP12? |
@imhififan A worn out track would definitely be a culprit, but I think in my case this is not the situation. I have heard a very small amount of distortion on a few other highly dynamic and highly modulated tracks. Always in the right channel, which would certainly seem to indicate that AS is an issue....which I had not thought of before. Problem is that if the track is played back with distortion, I am concerned that the result will also be a worn groove. Kind of like which comes first...the chicken or the egg. In my case, I think the cartridge is the culprit...but we shall see. |
@boothroyd Some good suggestions there. This is probably a time when it would pay to have two turntable set ups. |
@rauliruegas Raul, I am not considering the original Naim Aro, I am interested in the new Naim Aro that has just been released on the Solstice table. I have no idea if this arm will be available separately, but if it is, then I think it could be a nice option. |
@scar972 I doubt it is the record. The other records i played that night were all fine, but this LP has more dynamics and modulations in the groove than those. While the record could be damaged now, I don't think it was before I played it that night. It is certainly a record that i have played before in the past, with my prior Benz Ruby 2 with no issues. However, the Lyra requires a far more precise set up than the Benz...and is a lot less forgiving than that cartridge.
I will try and confirm how the record is with another a'phile friends set up, unfortunately with Covid, there still seems to be some hesitancy to meet others ( not so much from me). We shall see.
I will report back once I have played some more vinyl, since I have now slightly increased my A/S. Hopefully this is the answer and my LP is fine ( the pressing is an AP limited edition ( awesome sounding LP)--so I do not want to have to replace it!) |
IMO Any arm will have its pluses and minuses, including the Aro. Question is whether it works well on the table that one is planning on mounting it and with the cartridge that one utilizes. The LP12 is a severely limited platform for mounting after market arms, simply because its spring suspension really cannot accommodate just about all top flite arms. ( Due to the severe weight limitations that this suspension dictates). I strongly suspect that Raul is in fact correct. Hypothetically, the Aro if it could be directly compared to arms like the Basis Super Arms or the SAT’s or the Triplanar’s would come off in a very poor way. None of these arms work on the LP12. The Aro does. The question which I am contemplating is whether the excellent LP12 platform is worth sticking with given the arm scenario. Maybe it would be better to go to another table that allows for far superior arms to be mounted, albeit with possibly less general ability than the LP12?? |
@rauliruegas Thanks Raul. I'm not jumping ship on a Linn Klimax for a Rega 10 ( even though this is a good table). BTW, please do check your spelling in your last post...;0)
If i move on from the Linn, it would be to a Basis or maybe a TW. Both of these offer platforms that I think work well with a variety of tonearms, although the Basis arms are very good. I have friends who own these tables and as such, I think these tables are the upgrade route. |
@mijostyn Thanks for your explanation. I was aware that the arm potentially can move in the longitudinal plane, although I have never heard any issue with this..and frankly fail to see what would cause it to do this? An electrical engineering friend demonstrated this movement to me when the arm was off the table, but also could not see this as occurring under real life circumstances. Interesting thoughts on the Basis Debut model, I'm not sure why you would state that Basis has taken a step backwards after AJ's death? Their current production, including the uber 'Transcendence' is supposed to be AJ's best work. ( AFAIK, there have been no new designs since AJ's passing).
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@mijostyn I think you must be confused. I believe that AJ considered the Transcendence as his Magnum Opus! If you ever get a chance to hear this turntable, i believe you will understand why.
As to the WTA, I have heard absolutely no issues with the arm whatsoever in regards to its ability ( or lack thereof) to move in the longitudinal axis. The forces required to make it do so just don't seem to be applicable to the design.
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@yeti42 The Kleos has a cantilever that can easily be impacted by wrong A-S. I have to take a listen to the modification that I did to the A-S tonight, but what i added was a very small amount, as too much and the cantilever will skew. The WT arm is a good one, however, I think it is the weak link in my system. Problem is that the LP12 is very limited as to what arm will work and so far none of the choices are that great. |
@yeti42 Thanks. I agree the WTA is difficult to replace. I have listened to a number of tonearms on the LP12, including the original Aro, the Ekos SE-1, and a few SME's. None were clearly superior to the WTA in most areas, and a few just didn't sound right at all. The WTA 'Black' is like you describe, lacking in fine adjustment, but it is also a very forgiving arm and works quite well with my Lyra. The new Aro may be a contender, if it is sold separately? |
@grk I did as suggested above and increased the Anti Skate a little. This seems to have solved the problem, although I still need to listen further to some of the more 'dynamic' passages.
Agreed, there are always folks who will naysay any product, even with absolutely zero knowledge or experience with it. Not sure why this is a thing? |
@mijostyn I think you are confusing AJ’s work a little. He did bring out his "The Work of Art’ table as his top model..prior to the Transcendence.
As to my understanding of the 4 Point arm, I feel your post was quite supercilious and telling. BTW, you might want to get ’there’ and ’their’ in order...for instance it would be ’their job is to hold the cartridge’...
oh, sorry that is just about as supercilious....lol.
Sorry, the Kuzma 4point 9 will not work well on an LP12, simply too heavy for the little fruit boxes suspension requirements. |
@jcarr Thank you for your post. It was very informative. The Kleos does seem to work acceptably in the WTA 'Black' arm, although as you note, i would like to see a lot more accuracy and consistency in its adjustment capability. Nonetheless, the arm probably isn't the best for the Kleos, although selecting an arm that works better and works on my LP12 is the question. |
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@articdeth I think with the Kleos ( and all Lyra’s) the VTF is crucial. i have mine set at the suggested VTF.Thank you, but I will not be experimenting with that. |
@rauliruegas Raul, have you heard the Rega RP 10? I ask as I have and while it is a very good table, it is not IMHO in any way better than what I currently have. Plus, I think in some areas, like resolution, the Linn is better. If you are referring to the review by MF, yes he did say that the RP10 was not ’killed’ by the SAT combo, MF has a way of sugar coating his thoughts when it comes to these matters. IME, I would expect the SAT to easily best the RP10, but maybe not in the amount of difference that the SAT cost ( which IMHO is ’comical’). As we both know, there are diminishing returns when you get up into the upper echelon of the high end world. IF I’m getting away from the Linn platform, it would into something like a Basis or maybe a TW...mainly because I like the possibility of multiple arms. (although the Basis models are still restrictive in that regard!). |
