Totem Hawks/Forests - Upstream Components

Hey Grakesh:

So I'll respond to the following setups you asked about, based on my experiences where applicable, and your desired price range of 3000-3500.

1. New Primaluna Prologue 3 preamp with Musical Fidelity A5 CR power-amp (New/Used).

-I've not heard the Prologue 3, and I've only heard the A5 with other MF gear, but wasn't blown away. I have to say that overall the new MF gear hasn't bowled me over the way the 308 or trivista stuff did. I think there are other SS amps I'd choose before the A5, Bat, plinius, and Sim being among them, especially with the forests.

2. New BAT VK-3iX preamp with USED Musical Fidelity A5 CR Power Amp

I've not heard these two together so I can't comment on the synergy, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Also, don't these two exceed your budget? Keep in mind you'll want to have some interconnects and PCs, so this might not be the way to go price-wise.

3. New BAT VK-3iX Preamp with USED BAT VK-250 / VK-350 power amp.

This is a much more logical combination than two IMO, but as far as I know there does not exist a BAT VK-350 amp, and the 250 used is still around 3500, which means you're way above teh budget listed above. Still, this would sound pretty sweet.

4. New Plinius 9200 Integrated

It seems based on other posts that you're leaning toward seperates, but I think the plinius 9200 is in some ways the ideal choice. It's got all the desired features (more than enough power, remote, phon section) and matches excellently with totem. I really think this is the winner, and the price used will leave you a nice amount left over for accessories or the bank (waste of time). If I hadn't blown an unnecessary amount of money on my seperates (I'm a schmuck) this woudl have been it.

5. New Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.

I'm not in love with this integrated. I'm not anti MF, but I think the KW500 puts this to enough shame to make this one irrelevant. The tri-vista does for that matter too!

6. New BAT VK-300x Integrated.

Well there are really 3 different integrateds here: all SS, tube-hybrid, and tube-hybrid with supertubes. I loved the top of the line one with my totems, but the phono section is a bit of a joke. at the price used, though, you can get a good outboard phono stage.

7. Sim Audio I-3 / I-5 is another good choice. But I am not considring it highly because it is low on power amp portion and I want to use ths same set-up for powering my HT fronts as well.

Many have commented on this so I'll just say that I love the sim/totem combination and think you would be able to buy something used and resell it fairly easily if it didn't work out.

Okay, hope this helps. Again, I think considering your budget the best option would be the Plinius 9200. One not mentioned here would be the YBA passion integre, which is a killer integrated. Forget the power ratings...this one's a gem!

First off, if you have the money I'd def. go for the forests. There are a number of threads on the subject, but just listen for yourself and you'll understand.

So I'll list a couple units I liked with the totem Forests, but these may voice differently depending on your CD/TT, Cables, etc.

The Plinius 9200 I think represents a lot of what you're looking for, in terms of tube-like mid-range bloom and power, plus it has a decent phono stage. Also, if you buy used you should have money left over for ICs, PCs, and speaker cable, if you buy well.

If you want to go with tubes somewhere in the chain, you could get the BAT VK300x or 300xse, both of which sound very good with the forests.

A Vac Avatar Super may be a stretch of your budget (but falls below 3500 used) but would be an ideal match.

A Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista is about 3 grand used, and would be much superior to the Jolida/MF combo you proposed in your last post. Plus, this thing has enough power to match with anything you might upgrade to, and has a phono stage, but it's not great.

If you're looking to save money, the Plinius is the way to go. Otherwise, I'd say the Bat or MF would be good. I didn't get a good listen on the VAC and totems, but I'm familiar with the VAC and it's great.

Enjoy

Grakesh:

I'm using an aesthetix janus preamp with a parasound A21 with very favorable results, but I'm getting a BAT VK 250 tomorrow and I expect the change to be night and day. I"ve heard the bat and aesthetix together and it's a stunning combo. I'm a fan of tube pre and solid state amps, only because I'm nervous about fully embracing tubes. I would seriously consider listening to the BAT VK 300 integrated, because I though it voiced very well with the Totem forsests, as did the Plinius 9200 which is all SS.

Grakesh:

Since you constantly refer to the Musical Fidelity A5 it would appear you are keen on the MF gear. I would think that a creek with an A5 wouldn't be as favorable as going with an MF Trivista integrated, which would also save you a pc and an IC. I would think that in general the creek wouldn't be the best bet for the Forests, assuming those are what you've settled on.

So first off, I think given the price range of the other components you're looking at, that you should stick with the forests. If it came down to cash, I think the plinius 9200 would leave you the extra scratch for the difference between the hawks and forests.

That being said, here are my impressions:

1. Pathos Logos USED for $3600. Hybrid Integrated with SS Power Amp at 110 Watts into 8 Ohms, 220 Watts into 4 Ohms

Have to say that I loved this unit when I heard it with some Proacs, and I surmise it would voice very well with the Forests. It may not have the power reserves of the 9200, but I think it wouldn't sound lean. It's a beautiful thing and has a pretty great midrange.

2. BAT VK-3i USED for $1500. Will need to decide a good power AMP that I can get for $2000 - $2500 (New/Used)

If you mated this with something like a Bat VK-500 I think you'd be pretty happy. You'd have more than enough power, a very neutral revealing system, but of course you'd need one more set of ICs and another PC.

3. New Audio Research SP 16 (No Phono) for $1800. Will need to decide a good power AMP that I can get for $2000 - $2500 (New/Used).

Can't comment on this unit since I've not heard it, but there are a number of ARC lovers (and haters) on audiogon so maybe post just about that unit if you're curious.

Also, as I mentioned before, I would consider the YBA Passion Integre, which is fantastic. I would trust your ears and play around. I suspect you'd be happy with the Plinius and save some money for other upgrades, as well as some space. If not, I think either the Logos or Bat combo would be amazing. I think the Pathos gear has something of an inflated cost because of the look, but that's important to some (me). Have fun.

-matt

So I've never heard the combo of the VK-3i and VT-500 with the forests, but I like BAT gear and I think it would sound pretty great. I've heard the Pathos gear and very much liked the Logos (I actually didn't love the inpol2, but I think the unit I heard had problems, i.e. transformer hum) but still think the Plinius is the best buy. The Logos is beautiful looking, and has a great midrange, but I think you pay a huge premium for design and brand cache. I think the Plinius fills all your requirements, including a lush midrange, and you can always sell it with little to no loss if it didn't float your boat. I ended up spending rougly 4 times the pri9ce of a used plinius to better the sound. I don't think it would have bene easy to do it any other way, so I say go for the plinius, and use the left over money in other parts of your system.