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Total cost of ownership - how to reduce it

Audiogon members love their music - but I am not alone, I think, in finding that the requirements in terms of cost and time for keeping the system running at optimal, can become too steep. Can we help each other out?

Today I have spent two hours trying to find a failed tube in my system. Two months ago I had a bad episode with a repair service that did not repair and did not return my stuff. Some weeks ago, I blew a speaker driver, I am still waiting for the replacement. Thinking, I need a tube tester, since my system has a lot of tubes - I got the tester, but it blew tubes, not "dead on arrival" but "over-excited" - and has to be repaired. I am perhaps especially unlucky. But I ask myself, how much is enough? When such experiences accumulate, I can understand people plugging into Mp3, it is simple and it works.

I have thought about my situation and diagnosed two main types of problems - maybe, relevant for other Audiogon members also.

The first is where you buy a thing used and then get it upgraded by the manufacturer. You pay quite a lot for this, and you would expect the whole thing is checked - but it is not. In two cases now, I have experienced that even if the upgrade works fine, the box as a whole is not checked, and develops problems a year or two after the upgrade.

The second case is where you pay for an upgrade that is more like a new build (e g of a speaker) or rebuild (of a cartridge). Now, there is no lagging wear and tear problem, but it turns out that the upgrade parameters were not fully developed, things have to be changed or checked afterwards (speaker drivers dont work optimal, needle not quite in place, etc).

I would be the first to recognize that some of these costs (time, mainly, but money also) should be accepted. I have paid local repair costs without complaining, and have used many hours of my own time. As an advanced user, I accept some extra costs.

It is just that, sometimes it gets too much.

I would like other Audiogon users' thoughts on this dilemma, and especially, what can we do to reduce the total ownership costs.

Your thoughts and experiences welcome.
o_holter

Showing 10 responses by mapman

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
Keep it simple.

Also if  tubes you have to have a good tube tester to find the problem or keep spares around to swap one at a time to isolate the bad ones.   


Also good point with tube gear to try and find gear designed to help with tube life. 

Also I've found Class D integrated amps can deliver very competitive top notch sound reliably and the efficiency of operation also helps keep TCO down. 



mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
A good quality digital integrated amp from a reputable maker fed by a good quality streaming device (need not cost much) with moderately efficient speakers that it can drive well that fit well into your listening space is a good approach.

An example is my second system currently, Amazon Fire TV (running Plex app to stream from my music library) or older Logitech Squeezebox Touch into Bel canto C5i integrated out to whatever speaker floats your boat off just 60 w ch or so. I’ve used several different speakers with this setup all with excellent results. All speakers with just modest efficiency sound great off this amp. It also works well with headphones when needed.

I still have my much larger more powerful main system with separates but I find myself spending more time with the second system lately since putting in the C5i mainly because its in the family room and I don’t have to lock myself away downstairs often to listen because the rest of my family enjoys this setup for music as well as 2 channel theater and is happy to listen to my music library or internet radio for hours on end with it.   We are not big TV or movie watchers.


mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
If you care about TCO, keep it simple.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
" but anything that is finely tuned will require regular maintenance. "

That is true, but not all approaches are created equal in this regard. Some require more periodic tuning to maintain over time. Systems using parts that wear out or deteriorate faster will be the most prone. Its generally a larger part of the overall equation when tubes are involved. But not even all tubes are created equal in this regard. Some gear is easier on tube life than others. Its something to consider for TCO especially if one must have tubes.

Phono rigs are the other common part of a high end system that tend to require more periodic maintenance in order to maintain fine tuned performance.

So you have to be somewhat dedicated to the maintenance and cost aspects with older technologies like tubes and phonos, especially if keeping things well tuned matters to you. An inherent investment in time and money is required. That is an aspect that proponents will tend to gloss over given the chance.

The good news is that if you just want to make an initial investment and spend time listening, there are better ways available via more modern technologies. TCO and reliability is a major driving factor for new technology and the main reason why older ones might no longer cut it.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
Tube preamp + good matching Class D amp (and speakers) is a very viable lower TCO solution to tube amps and all that goes with that.

A tube output stage on a DAC is a very low TCO option if one must have a tube or two in the mix.

No tubes at all may be best from a TCO perspective.

I use a tube pre-amp with Class D amp in my system and could not be happier. Effortless music at any volume level.

I use a DAC with a single tube output stage in my second system with SS preamp and amp and this is similarly good at most reasonable listening levels.

I have other listening options at well at home with very good sound quality, mostly involving headphones, and no tubes at all.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
"Sacrifice something to the audio gods."

That seems to be a common practice in these parts. Almost a right of passage when plain simple good sound alone is just not enough.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
Lots of people are happy with tube gear. TCO can be lower case by case. It all depends as is usually the case. The devil is always in the details.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
One other factor to consider in TCO is how much power is used. Power bills for Class A and even Class A/B amps, SS or tube, even running idle, can be quite high. Class D amps are the most efficient available and the best for keeping TCO down as it relates to your power bill.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
"tube gear w/less tubes & more efficient speakers, done."

True in many cases but larger speakers needed for full range at higher volumes in a larger room off a smaller tube amp might turn out to be expensive.

Its mostly a matter of scale. Almost anything can work well if room is smaller, lowest octave does not matter, and listening volumes will not be high.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,754 posts
 
"Best" is subjective based on criteria you choose. May or may not have anything to do with TCO. It all depends on priorities and what is perceived as best by each.
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