Tonearm recommendation

Wrm0325

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Wrm0325
I can offer you some of my findings with an FR64s but first let me say it sounds like you have a bunch of really nice records , a system you are happy with and are about to retire. Why not just enjoy the music. Based on the limited info I would say - stay put with what you have. Enjoy life and music. So you listen through headphones? I was never able to get the hang of headphones myself.

This may be of interest as you brought up resonances.
Lyra cartridge designer J. Carr. - he has professional biases.
As you own the Arche headshell you are familiar with Dertonearm. He has a well known bias toward FR6* series tonearms.

Here is the thread.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jc....

And the part I found intriguing.

See May 27th 2009 7:31am and 10:55am posts between JCarr and Dertonearm.

Jonathan Carr
I agree that the FR-66S would be somewhat better than the SAEC, but truth be told, I’m not overly enamoured of the "S" family either (and I say this as the long-time owner of a 64S with Elevation Base and Arm Stabilizer). The stainless steel is great to look at, but less great to listen to, and when I run mine I prefer to keep a compression wrap around the tube.

Dertonearm - you might - if you haven’t already done so... - give your Titan i a test in your FR-64s. The combo gives astonishing good results - despite the less great mass/compliance combination.

Johnathan Carr
Yes, I’ve already done so with the Titan i. Likewise the Olympos. I agree that the results can be quite OK - as long as you wrap a damper strip around the armtube or take measures to dampen it better. Otherwise the "fx" or "fc" variants are far more friendly to use. By the time Ikeda did the IT-345 and IT-407, he had gained a much better awareness of resonance control as compared to his FR days.

So what do I take from this? if I was curious I would try wrapping your armtube. Give it a shot - does it make a difference?

******************************
My own experience is not with the 66 but the 64; and I have also owned a JMW 12 in the past like yourself. So I offer my findings.

Now we all know I hope, that this vinyl playing is a sum of the whole, and I will ask you how important is bass to you. The rest of my post goes into more detail on why I ask this. IMO -with vinyl the lesser design set up well, can outperform the better design, set up not as well. The better design should ultimately have more potential.

Better Design and Potential definition - well each audiophile’s view is different.

******************************

So during a past bout of Audiophilia.

I ran a TT with a Dynavector DV505 and FR64s - same cartridges MC and MM. I remember finding significant differences in Low Frequencies.

This was when running with a set of Quad 57’s in Room B, with and without sub. See my AudioGon virtual page for room descriptions.

The FR64s produced more low end grunt over the DV505. very noticeable with only the Quads running w/o sub - they are good to about 45hz. So in systems that are light in the bass - the FR64s tonearm can help - imo.

When the Quads were used with the sub I found I had to actually change the setting on the sub when switching between the DV505 and FR64.

Now the interesting part of the findings for me was when I inserted a 15 IPS Master tape dub; that extra bass the FR64 was producing, was not there with the tape playing in my own room. This led me to form my own opinion that the FR64 does produce some type of extra resonance which shows up in the (bass), which I am assuming is a LR resonance of the tonearm itself.

Now from the designer of the tonearm note the Owners manual cartridge mounting instructions.

The distance from the front of the headshell to the stylus tip should be adjusted so that it is 7mm.
If this cannot be achieved by sliding the spacer try attaching the cartridge in a different position (on the spacer) or turn the spacer around.
A difference of 1mm more or less will not present any practical problems.

This tells me that the tonearm designer was not shooting for ultimate accuracy in presentation ...
btw - My FR64s had what I thought was a great anti skating system .

Hope this helps. My two cents. Good luck in your quest and enjoy retirement.

Halcro
The Dynavector is a monster of an arm (1.5Kg) and does not fare well mounted on sprung turntables or those with flimsy armboards. A massive separate armpod is ideal for this tonearm....and is recommended by Dynavector themselves.
I don’t know whether you mounted both arms identically Chris....but if you did, perhaps there is a fault with one or both arms?

No faults worked as designed Henry. My DV505 and the FR64s was mounted on a 100 lb Jean Nantais TT. but you already knew that.

Halcro - I find no significant differences in the frequency response (from top to bottom) between the two..

Interesting - did you not also say in another forum that you found no differences between your Belt and DD turntables too?

You know, during my Audiophile Turntable Bedlam phase - I found differences between idler, belt, thread and DD in my room. All I can say Henry would be what I already said on your virtual page - look to your speaker placement.

btw - I did not say or refer to frequency response (top to bottom) in my last post. I was discussing differences in DB levels at low frequencies (45 to about 70 hz) with the 57’s.

nandric - Well I nearly forget how those work because I use (one of) my FR-64 continual. It is more than a tonearm it
is a love affair.

I think Nicola likes his FR64 so much because when he lets the cuing lever down, its slow movement before it touches the vinyl, gives him time to top up with Slivovitz (grin)

Nicola - that bottle I told you about containing what looks like water is still untouched. Does it age well ?

You know, during my Audiophile Turntable Bedlam phase -
I found differences between idler, belt, thread and DD in my room.

Halcro - And you don’t find that concerning?
Please explain to me what a cartridge knows about ’drive-type’?

C’mon Henry, don’t you remember Goldilocks and the Three Tables !

https://goo.gl/photos/doHmVDbzSDaEHMqh9

You know I remember you gave me some really nice feedback on my system thread about the review ?
Let me go try to dig up some info. Unfortunately this new A’gon format conversion has has not been completed to the virtual pages.
I did a search for Goldilocks.
Here it is.

Hi Chris,
I really enjoyed reading your Goldilocks and the three turntables.
You have reached some informative opinions after conducting thorough and useful in-loci experimentation.
I value your methodology and the conclusions you have assembled here.
Regards
Henry
halcro June 21, 2012 07:03

You may see the review again for the details you are looking for. It’s all there.

The pic I linked in my google is one of 39 on my new AudioGon virtual system slide show. A picture of Goldilocks is there too :^)
You know, that was some crazy shite (sic) back then.....
I mean since I consider myself a full time music lover, and only part time audiophile.
So I agree with you Henry - it was very concerning but relatively safe. Safer than racing anyway. It was therapeutic, took my mind off of some bad stuff that was happening during those times.


@Nandric
re: your comment to Stringreen

Now considering your violin ’’argument’’. I never understood why all those composers wrote for this anemic, shrill and shabby
looking and sounding instrument in any orchestra? As you confessed yourself the ’’thing’’ sounds different everywhere
and even under your own chin.

lol - looking forward to Stringeen’s response.

Nandric
One should listen to the guitar music instead. The strings are fast the fundamentals as easy to hear as the
harmonics an ideal instrument to judge any system. Even better to judge carts.

Nicola - so what happens to your carts after they have been judged ?

Very good to hear you are doing well.... like my Slivovitch. (grin)

@Crazy Bill - regarding headphones.
I am about to turn 54 next month. Have had my own space for listening since I was a kid (bedroom) I still remember my first TT in there. Think I was 12? A heavy white kenwood. marbly looking thing with a belt like my mom’s hoover. I think I tried to swap them one time. anyway. no headphone use. had a pair. Didn’t like them. Koss?
When I met my wife she moved in with me and and we used to entertain so the gear was always there in front. No headphones yet.
In ’94 our fraternal twins were born and I really did try headphones and wanted them to work. I really wanted them to work ! !
No luck. So I started building out the 1st panic room in our basement.

Cheers

Even Crazier Chris :^)

Nandric
Dear Chris, You provoke me with your Slivovitz I provoke Stringreen with his violin. No disputes without provocation
and no intersting discussion without disputes. BTW what kind of (ex) Balkanese are you when you don’t
drink this stuff (aka ’’plum brandy’’) ?

Dear Nicola

I think you missed a few provokes here .. 8^0

regarding violins and your mention of the guitar and harmonies. My daughter plays piano and my son the acoustic guitar. They are both amazing instruments, but this violin that you described as anemic, shrill and shabby looking... has the power to make me fall to my knees and cry.

http://ultraanaloguerecordings.com/wpsite/sample-tracks/

listen to the Vitali Chaconne sample track - 7th from the bottom. 25 seconds in.

I guess it all depends on who is playing it and where on the chin it is being held ?

re; Slivovitch - you make it sound so sweet. Are we talking about the same thing?
the stuff I am talking about can clean out your veins. If I wasn’t enjoying the endorphins high from running, I would just not run and drink that colorless looking water instead. My knees are now my biggest liability. (Achilles Knees ?) Red Wine goes well in winter. Beer in summer.

sorry for off topic post Crazy Bill.

Folkfreak
It is easy to set up once you get a handle on how to do it and once set up allows excellent and repeatable fine tuning of VTF, SRA and Azimuth -- the latter via adjusting the height of the "outrigger" that controls the lateral roll.

@Folkfreak

I am curious what you mean by the word "repeatable" in your sentence ? Looking to learn. thank you.

Lewm
Even Durand has now eschewed the use of wood and gone to some sort of synthetic material for their arm wands. Seems odd, because the company was founded on the principle that their particular choice of wood from a particular species of tree was key.

Far out Lewm .........TGIF

Hi Folkfreak - thank you for the reply and for sharing your experiences. If I may comment on a couple of your points.

Critical to this is the ability to go backwards and forwards on tonearm height to dial in SRA very finely.

My one knock on the Kairos however would be that I think the small VTF weight may wander (i.e. drift on the thread) in use -- keep rechecking VTF regularly and you are good however.

I am making an assumption here not having used this tonearm personally; that assumption being the issue of VTF drifting in this case, is not with the tonearm part itself, but physics. Please allow me to use a crude analogy to illustrate my point. Anyone can try this. Gather a blank piece of paper, flat shim whatever material - say one inch think, and a long marker. 

Place the piece of paper on a table, draw a straight line with the marker using the shim to make the line straight. 
Now hold the marker with your thumb, middle and index fingers, and lay your hand sideways, on the line. 
Hold the marker level like a tonearm armtube, and lower the tip until a dot is made on the paper. 
Now put the shim on the line and your hand on top of the one inch shim. This represents a higher VTA position. 
Lower marker again. This time the dot will be closer to the line (over hang has changed) because of the height change, if you could weigh the marker dots the first one - with the lower height (VTA) would be heavier. Again a crude example, the experiment came to me many years ago when I observed this phenomena.  

To observe this phenomena using an actual tonearm; set your tonearm on its lowest VTA adjustment point. Measure the overhang and VTF. Now raise to the highest VTA position and measure overhang and VTF again.   Overhang and VTF will have changed and if one wants to be the double A - Accurate and Anal, both need to be reset as well as Azimuth depending on the specific tonearm, each time VTA needs to be changed in ones listening room. From a listening aspect, my experiences have been some stylus types are affected by VTA more than others; but that's a cartridge/stylus thread discussion.        

Folkfreak - I would look forward to the results of you trying this with your tonearm.  

@OP Crazy Bill - if you are using the B60 Base accessory with your FR66, I would be interested in you trying this as well. Only takes 2 minutes.

**********************************

A little about my approach.

I play all kinds of records meaning old records, new ones, all genres. They were pressed all over the place and I am all over the place with my selections as well. I can get into routines, but then one day I pull a record on a whim, like it, and that gets me on another routine/ genre. Love discovering new music. So, I have found some records are, to use one common word, brighter, than others. Why ? Many years ago I found the findings in the Eminent Technology ET2 tonearm owners manual very interesting.

Just a summary - pulled from there, not word for word. These are basic guidelines. 

• Many records are cut with a 16 - 20 degree vertical angle. 
  
• Average cartridge vertical angles are slighter higher than 22 degrees. This leads to a mismatch.
  
• European cutting standards closely match vertical angles of phono cartridges. 
  
• If a cartridge vertical angle is higher than 22 degree its performance may be improved by tilting it back 2-3 degrees. 
  
• If the measured vertical tracking angle of a cartridge is 18-20 degrees it will probably perform best with its top parallel to the record. 
  
• Some cartridges are sensitive to VTA, others are not. 
  

Vertical Tracking Angle . See this link pic. quick grab from the internet.

http://eu.audio-technica.com/en/products/cartridges/images/vertical.jpg

So, for someone like myself that plays all kinds of different records from different pressing plants. This tells me the vertical angle cut in the record itself could vary. The record is the Alpha here - no question to me. Does anybody doubt this ? I do realize this AudioGon site is mostly about the gear. And I also recognize that if an Audiophile is listening to the same type/pressed records - the value or importance of VTA may become less important. But I still feel its important to understand what is going on when we do hear differences; especially when the only changed variable in a given listening session, are the records themselves.   

My reference tonearm has been designed to optimize the vertical tracking angle. And if you think back to the marker dot example above. This tonearm's VTA "block" contains a worm gear /cylinder that actually moves the armtube in and out, as you raise or lower the VTA, for different record angle cuts and thicknesses. Its frequency of use is all based on what I hear in my room. I have found how much it is used, depends on the cartridge/stylus type, and my tolerance level, the latter part varies day to day. The VTA mechanism on this tonearm is patented and keeps the VTF, overhang, azimuth from changing.

Thanks for letting me ramble. 

I am surprised. I did think about a tonearm part problem when I read your original findings, but I guess I assumed due to its cost/low production, that a part as critical as this would be addressed. But then I believe that I also read this week, something about another expensive tonearm’s part actually changing its shape....
Hard to believe.

Maybe I should add a small dot of locking compound to the thread and all will be well.

Personally I would not accept this kind of solution. If it was me its going back to the manufacturer. I realize that depending on where one lives, in relation to where something is made; could prove challenging from a logistics and time period.

If anything I would try something non permanent first. Maybe a tiny dot of Blue Tac - but Blue Tac also dampens.

A friend who worked as an engineer in the aircraft industry has a favorite saying, "Don't worry about picking the fly sh*t out of the pepper."

Good one Pryso  :^)

I have this Technics SL1200 that I have loaned out over the years. It has a black Grado on it. It was returned to me a few months ago and it's there staring at me so I got curious. From my earlier post I set it at its lowest VTA setting and took VTF reading, then went to the highest VTA setting. The difference in VTF was about .15 gms. ( 2.00 gm to start and then it dropped to about 1.85gms) But the overhang was way out.
I have tried this in the past on the Dynavector DV505, but you need to be careful with that tonearm. If not careful when adjusting VTA, the heavy arm could come down on its column and maybe toast the cartridge. 

You certainly are full of surprises aren't you Raul.

Raulireugas
That's why no single tangential arm I heard it can gives us the right bass range with the definition, precision, tightness and transparency that a well damped non-unipivot pivoted tonearm shows us.

Well I was the one you quoted on this thread that was comparing vinyl to the 15 IPS tape master dub. The part I left out during that specific Dv505/fr64s/tape comparo; is that it was Room B. Not even my main room. The Studer tape deck is on a stand with wheels.

It makes me wonder Raul, why you posted this on our ET 2 Tonearm Owners thread ?

raulireugas
Dear ct0517: Yes, I remember the first time that I saw that very good picture and was my wife who took my attention about.

Obviously that beautiful house is a house where the owner likes music and know what this means in a home audio system ( I'm talking not of RR but the real owner. ).

IMHO, the ET tonearm is today an icon/sign in the audio history.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/eminent-technology-et-2-tonearm-owners/post?postid=1294382#12...

*******************************************

Now something else you said that I agree with.

raulireugas
In theory tangential tonearms must be the best alternative but as always in audio when that theory goes to reality during playing that theory can't be confirmed because unfortunatelly the analog experience is way imperfect and theory comes and has foundation on perfect world.

I can agree with this to a point. And having been doing this vinyl stuff for about 40 years, since I was 13, I will say this again.
This is all about setup - vinyl. A lesser design set up well, can indeed out perform a better design that is setup just so so.  
But the better design will always have more potential. I enjoy my vinyl music only my ET 2.5 Air Bearing Linear tracker. A custom build from Bruce. details on my virtual system. 
 
Now based on my personal experiences and some friends over the years. Here is what I found.
The audiophile with one table, tonearm, cartridge at a time, will achieve greater potential with that one setup; than some one running multiple tables and 6- 8 tonearms. It comes down to time, learning and experience. Like in real life, you can have someone that knows something about many things; or you can have a person that knows a lot about one thing. Now when I see a setup that has a couple 2-3 tables, and 5-6-7-8 tonearms without a properly set up air bearing Linear tracker, I say to myself first. That person is very biased. And then I say what a shame. All that effort and not one tonearm that can track an LP properly all the way through. No grin No smile. Just being audiophile serious, and I consider myself a music lover.

fwiw
re: The ET tonearm - original 2.0, and the newer 2.5 (meant for MC cartridges). The owner requires time to learn how everything that was designed on it works. Most audiophiles that contact me; I tell them to stick to their pivots because I know they don't have patience. Even though all professional reviews of the older base ET 2.0 I have read were rave reviews. None of the reviewers demonstrated knowledge past basic setup. Best rating of 6 out of 10. No reviewer ever discussed how to achieve highest vertical inertia with it for example. This is how one gets the best bass - master tape quality. This has been discussed in detail on the ET2 thread if you're really interested in learning. All I need to do is ask a ET2 previous owner how they managed the weights on the I Beam, and I know if they knew what they were doing based on their knowledge.  

So it is a unique tonearm that requires out of the box thinking, and time with it to acquire the knowledge. Like I said most audiophile friends I know lack patience, and old habits are difficult to break. This is why I never recommended the ET2 to Crazy Bill on this thread. Maybe you really need to be a little crazy to own it.  

Wish I was Mexico right now. Our so far mild winter went to record breaking cold. Fun hobby. A hobby for some of us anyway. 

It's even too cold to fish ( and that's cold ).

:^)
Crazy Bill - I thought of the Grumpy Old Men movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TRUnJ5JlYw

wrm0325 - I'm going to look into the ET arms.

You can start here - at this link.

https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=ET2+yellow+sticky+


It's an AudioGon forum search on ET2 Yellow Sticky

I think I evolved into some sort of project manager on this thread ?
Now if I can just find a real project management job that lets me work from home........

You can read the manual too available as a download from Eminent Technology here.

http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html

click on Support, then Manuals.  

But I think the ET 2 thread is more fun. I feel we learn better when it is fun.
Any questions please say hi on the ET 2 thread.  

My moniker Ct0517 - are my initials and month/day I joined on here.
I am in Southern Ontario, south of Lake Simcoe.

**********************

Hi Raul  
I would not be happy with the ET 1 myself. The ET 2.0 and 2.5 allow you to tune the I Beam compliance for different compliance cartridges.
No other tonearm I am aware of allows for this.
If I was using only MM's I would stick with the ET 2.0 hpm - high pressure manifold. It was introduced when MM's were most popular. That is the tonearm I use in Room B. But my main cartridges are MC. The 2.5 is designed with a thicker lower resonance spindle for MC's.  I had Bruce build me a special ET 2.5. 

Now you can use MC's on the 2.0 version and MM's on the 2.5 version;
and in fact a better setup 2.0 version with an MC, will outperform a weaker setup 2.5 version with an MC. Its all about setup. But for most potential, the general guide is MM's with the 2.0, MC's with the 2.5.

The Air Bearing affords isolation, and allows me to run a straight shot of unshielded wiring. The person that makes the loom - Take Five Audio, tells me NO pivot arm customers can use this loom for two reasons.

1) The erratic pivot arm, armtube behavior with the attached external wire. All pivot arms are like buying a new car with a low front right tire. The only way to fix it - lower pressure in the front left tire. Called antiskating.   

2) Hum issues with the pivot tonearm itself being being bolted to the plinth. Multiple grounds are not a good thing Raul.

Remember a long time ago we used to plug all our stuff into the back of the preamp ?  

Happy Listening.

@Crazy Bill - Happy fishing !

Fleib - Frank Schroeder likes the Dynavector tonearm’s bass and had this to say.

The Dynavector’s excellent bass rendition predominatly stems from the (eddy current)damping in the lateral plane. It’s mass distribution is another reason.
Bass below 100Hz is cut in mono, purely lateral...

From here.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-schroeder-linear-tonearm-any-thoughts/post?postid=416519#...

I also remember years ago in talking with Bruce Thigpen; I could tell by his voice that he thought it was a really interesting tonearm. I had the DV505 in my main room for quite some time with the ET 2.0 and 2.5. I liked it a lot. But in that room with those at the time 801 monitors; I could hear when the Dyna hit the two sweet spots on the record. Still own it.

asvjerry
I'm going to go listen to some music, have a nice cup of tea, and come back to this thread in a week just to see if it finally imploded AG's server.

Asvjerry
Sorry to disappoint you, but imo this thread is not even close. Not even on the radar. If I was a betting man, my money is on the Fusers thread to take down this site.
Imagine if you will the posts, stories that would result, if they coordinated a movement, and all of them reversed their fuse directions.... at the same time.

Happy listening.

@Raul

Dear ct0517: With all respect, a tonearm designer not necessary is an experienced audiophile. Some are but not all.

Raul, we know. As a tonearm designer yourself; you even created a thread called Are You a True Audiophile. Now myself, I can’t post there because I am a part time audiophile, and full time music lover. I don’t qualify sorry.

Every post on this forum is an opinion.
Now usually, you don’t get manufacturers coming onto public chat forums and posting opinions about other products, without trying to do a little sell of their own products. There is tremendous bias. So when one of them speaks good about another product, and why - it can be interesting reading and hence my posted link. Apparently it was not interesting to you. I understand. no problem.

Raul - if you can provide us with a top view pic of your ET2 setup to start, I can tell you my opinion. The ET2 can be tweaked to sound like other tonearms. It is a tweakers delight, and this is why so many can go wrong with it. I can make it sound closer to a Fidelity Research 6 series tonearm too. Are you interested to know how to do this ?

back to the Frank Schroeder link I attached in the previous post.
What I found interesting about that link is that FS made mention to a number of tonearms even the base original ET2.
Now it is clear from his wording that he does not know himself, how to set up one properly, and was just going by what he was hearing.
He has no reason/agenda, like you Raul, to learn how to set it up properly. It is of no benefit to him. His makes his own tonearms.
The comment about mounting an ET2 on a suspended oracle has validity, and is discussed quite a bit on our ET2 thread.

Crazy Bill
Its warmer here today about 2 degrees celsius and it is starting to snow. Not much snow this winter we had a brown Christmas.
Chores await - maybe talk with you guys tomorrow.

Happy Listening.

Rauliruegas
ET still rides in the " air ", right?

Raul this is not correct. To ride implies to sit on and control movement like someone on a motorcycle. An example of this could be the Transfi Terminator tonearm. In forum talks with Dave G, I believe it rides on a type of sled. I remember this comment from him on my system thread because it reminded me of my ski doo racing. Maybe Dave or one of the other owners can talk to that tonearm.

The ET 2.5 is a captured bearing and the air bearing spindle is completed enclosed by air at all times inside the large stationary manifold. The differences between air bearing designs are huge even though they can look similar and for this reason one can not make general statements about them. For example. Consider Kuzma Airline which came after the ET 2.0 was introduced.

See this pic.

https://goo.gl/photos/cNxKtgbTLamJ6WR96

Similarities are obvious to the ET tonearm however look carefully at the red circles.
The Kuzma (left) needs the air tube and wiring to keep the armtube in check as a form of damping.
Would not advise using a high compliance, lower vtf tracker cartridge on it.
The ET on the other hand is friction less, like a free bird, The ET tonearm does not need its wiring, and the air tube is connected on the stationary manifold casing.
But that damn cartridge needs the wiring. So with the ET 2.0 and 2.5, for long time advanced owner setups, it is like trying to learn how to best walk a bird. Do you know why the ET2 thread has over 1.2 million views. Good Bird Walking Stories....

The best way to set up the ET is without the wiring **FIRST**. Then add in the wiring. Some people have come up with some really cool wiring arrangements. Factory basic setups were meant to sell tables/arms and had the wiring go through manifold down into the plinth for simplicity.
This is discussed in the manual and is a sub par setup. Even Bruce does not run his own arm this way. You can run a Sonus Blue 50cms/dyne x 10-6 1 gm, or a low compliance heavy MC on both the ET 2.0, 2.5. But the ET 2.0 or 2.5 tonearm needs to be setup differently for both. Different armtubes, and in advanced setups that no professional reviewers ever got to Single, double and triple leaf springs with good knowledge of the weights placement. This knowledge can only come with time, learning and experience.

btw - I happened to see your post this morning before AudioGon removed it.

mmakshak
Earlier, someone quoted that bass below 100hz was mono. I had always thought or read it was lower(60 or 40hz?)

mmakshak
That was a linked quote from Frank Schroeder. I took it to mean as a guideline. In talking with engineers this number will vary depending on the situation.

Don_c55
imo - theory will only take you so far in this vinyl hobby. For me personally I have heard "lesser theory" designs outperform "better in theory" designs. Its comes down to personal knowledge and setup. Better designs have more potential.

i.e.
If we start with your first theory point.

1) Micrometer arm height adjustment that has index marks for VTA/SRA. Index marks are needed to ‘fine tune”, and go back to a previous setting, when the last setting was better.

The last setting will always be better, if it was the one done with the cartridge alignment protractor. :^)  We have already discussed here how all tonearms except one, will throw out the alignment with VTA/SRA changes.When making VTA/SRA changes you should reset alignment. 

Rauliruegas
In the other side seems to me that we need some kind of friction at the tonearm bearing to" fight " in better way against all the LP imperfections: excentricity, waves and the like. Just an opinion.

Raul 
fwiw - there is a damping fluid trough which is used with a paddle. Regarding your comment on friction - one can adjust the arm so that there is some friction ....if that is what you want :^) 
During the arm setup you just offset the alignment a touch along the straight line. The limitation with the arm is if some one likes to play bad ass records. Severely eccentric records with runouts of greater than 1/8 inch. Nobody here is like that, right ? Even Bruce recommends in the manual to use a low mass pivoted arm if you like to play records like this.

Happy listening

Asvjerry - Popcorn, anyone?

Asvjerry - for me it is too early for popcorn. This is a morning thing mostly. It helps to take my mind off of crumbling investments. So freshly ground coffee beans for me. Any opinion on where Oil is headed ?

Crazy time of year -mid Feb - being stuck inside with winter. One risks falling back into audiophile mode. I am tempted to go visit Raul in sunny Mexico (if he will have me). He seems to be quite the party-er according to Pryso. For fun I could pack up my tonearm, if he will clear a space for it on one of his TT's. But I fear the tonearm's life support system will not survive the trip. :^(

As I am sure you know Asvjerry, the forums are like a poker game of opinions. The trump card is real experience. But some like to play this game here with their cards not showing (face down). How is one to share info and learn if your cards aren't showing? Good for you Asvjerry for showing a virtual system.

@ the OP CrazyBill, I will repeat what I said at the start - keep what you have and enjoy the music. I am down to a couple pivot arms now. I am not a tonearm collector, and I was in a situation that I had to sell one; either the DV505 or the FR64s. The FR64s was easier to sell, and my son thought the DV505 looked really cool. So I kept the DV505. I also learned while trying to sell the DV505 for a short period, that some audiophiles are intimidated by that thing.   

I heard a rumor the Fuser thread suffered its first casualty. A burned out filament. And just when I was getting ready to drop one of those shiny new babies into my DAC.

Cheers

Fleib

Ct0517 - Why would someone with a pivoting arm want to use a loom designed for an air bearing linear? Are you saying a pivoting arm can't use a straight run of wire? Of course you're not, you just want to get in a shot about antiskating.

I owed you this response Fleib from an earlier post. Lets break it down.

Why would someone with a pivoting arm want to use a loom designed for an air bearing linear?

Its not designed for an air bearing linear tonearm. Its just a straight shot of wire (your choice of brand) with your choice of connectors.
Unless you are going to solder the ends into the phono stage. If using the plugs, a Faraday cage and grounding on the plug side.

Here's a pic.

https://goo.gl/photos/iTQSAAATtommiQkx8

The setup in the bottom left replaces all of the tonearms own internal wiring along with what is seen to the right. The performance bump on my tonearm was incredible once one deals with the interference.

Are you saying a pivoting arm can't use a straight run of wire?

I am talking Audiophile real life here, after the original manufacturers tonearm has been brought home. Nobody I know would replace the inside original wire in the armtube of an expensive pivot arm. This is difficult to do and you lose resale value. On a gimbal tonearm; this external wire puts an additional force on the pivot arm tube as the wire is no longer exiting at the pivot. Not good.

Fleib - I showed you my loom. How about showing me yours....

Don_c55
Ct0517 When you say lesser arms can sound better, were the both arms you heard set up properly?And how did you know that was in fact true?

Don_c55

I will give you a couple examples of what I meant. Firstly - Setups are temporary. An audiophile is not able to resist change. Ones setup is as good as the last change.
Its one thing to discuss what one would like to see in a tonearm, and in this thread Crazy Bill asked for input. In the real world we know one needs to give consideration to the sum of the parts.Each part plays a separate role and contributes to the the sum of the whole. For vinyl play - type of building floor suspended or not (this is a huge factor); Shelf design being used, table design (suspended or not), Tonearm, Cartridge, Wiring, Phono Stage and the Elephant in the room - the Record. At a high level.

Example One A good entry level table set up well with a basic cartridge, outperforms a more expensive table with VPI tonearm and more expensive cartridge. The owner is puzzled. Reading the tonearm manual he compensates with extra twists in the uni pivots wiring, but this makes the situation worse. He does not realize that his turntable has gone a little wonky - it is out of level. No amount of proper set up on that tonearm will fix this situation.

Another example. A 7/10 setup on a good pivot arm will produce decent results, and will out perform a 7/10 setup on a good air bearing linear tracker. You have a small amount of leeway with an airbearing linear arm. Go outside of that and it will sound like crap. IME , a 9/10 setup on an air bearing linear tracker versus 9/10 on a pivot arm is another story.

And how did you know that was in fact true?

I know the owners and the setups well.

Griffithds
ct0517 - You could neither handle the air nor the water in Mexico City! But you might see the sun through the red haze in the air.

:^)
Griffithds Sounds like my the tonearm will have just as much difficulty as me. Your comments made me think of an automobile owners manual, and the section that discusses the oil change interval for extreme operating conditions.
Mexico sounds like extreme operating conditions, and a challenge, for a captured air bearing. Continued moisture/humidity and/or particles in the air cause capillaries in the air bearing manifold to clog up. First it starts performing poorly, and eventually could lock up. There is a designed pressure difference, between what is coming into the manifold, and the PSI that is maintained on the air bearing spindle. The pressure difference needs to be maintained. To do this the capillaries need to stay clean. Not a problem in a normal controlled environment.

Holy Moly I am starting to sound like an engineer now....but I am just a music lover.  Try to say capillaries 3 times.

Griffithds - Btw - Do I remember reading on this forum at some point that you are an aircraft engineer ?

Asvjerry - yes - the tonearm will be left at home if I ever visited Raul. My comment in the last post about the tonearm's life support system not surviving the trip - was referring to the pump. Its a bulky thing with wheels.

wow 3 posts. Good coffee this morning.

TTNP

(to the next poster)

Fleib - The benefit of eliminating solder joints is overrated IMO.

Again an opinion with no cards showing.  Fleib this Poker Game is no fun when you show no cards. I like to learn. A shot of your table - top view (would be nice) along with the room showing speaker placement. Unless like the OP you listen with headphones. Then you don't need to show the room pic.

Someone pls let me know when Fleib decides to post a virtual system for us, so we can understand and learn why he says why he says.     

hasta la vista - you can find me on the speaker forum.

Lewm / Halcro - do you guys still have the cartridge alignment jig that came with your Dynavector tonearms for the initial setup ?

It can be used with one modification on your FR64s and other tonearms for their initial setups. Have your tried this ?

Lewm - Actually, Herb Papier, the original designer and builder of the Triplanar, is to be credited for being a very early adaptor of the "straight shot" wiring scheme, 15-20 years ago.

Cool. I found out there are owners on the ET2 thread who have been using straight shots for over 30 years, hence my Bird Walking Stories reference earlier. The design allows for 3 or 4 different looms to be swapped out within the hour; if you're good with your hands/eyes (for when audiophilia nervosa really strikes). Linear guys don't have different tonearm alignments to play around with, and straight line alignment can get really boring. So what are they to do ? Cycle looms of course.

Lewm - regarding your thriving DIY community comment; my personal perspective on looms is based on my remaining local audiophile friends ranging in age from about 45 - 55. I am at the older end and they think of me as an old fogey. I believe this age group represents the tail end of this Audiophile wave. Not one of them that I know of would buy a tonearm (regardless of its design) with the intention of changing out the internal wiring. Some of them have no problem working on amplifiers and speakers, but they would rather listen to digital than change out a tonearm's internal wiring. I was on the cusp by age having acquired records before digital kicked on. For the younger members of this group, their only records are the ones they have bought since.So we really are talking apples and oranges when it comes to our points of view. I am however quite curious that you seem to have an aversion to a reliable air pump; but have an interest in vintage Alfa Romeo's. :^)

Fleib - It's the arm with exposed unshielded wire which is susceptible to RF and a Faraday cage won't help as long as the wires are exposed.

If interested Fleib, you may find some answers by doing an AudioGon Forum search on James Bond Maneuvers.

wrm0325
I'm going to look into the ET arms. At this point, anything goes.

@OP - Crazy Bill - I did my best to provide you with some of the good, along with some of the bad, and tried to make it fun.

Asvjerry - words of wisdom around Oil. I have found most of my audiophile friends that have been at this a long time, are trying at this point to get blood from a stone, rather then spend dough on the hobby. Having two + hobbies encourages this. I still have some growing to do. I think I may have, not sure yet,  just acquired a Seaton submersive.

Cheers