To Sub or not to Sub...?

i definitely recommend *a pair* of subs for audio, even if ewe have full-range main speakers. as mentioned before, subs can take the load off of the full-range speakers' woofers, cleaning them up considerably. other adwantages are allowing ewe to place the *main* speakers optimally for imaging/soundstaging, not worrying about having to optomise bass response. when i 1st got my subs - a pair of vmps larger subs, my *monitors* were thiel 3.5's, which are 20h-19khz, +/-2db. the improvement in sound was *not* subtle.

ok, these are my sub *preferences* - my opinions, of course! ;~) i *greatly* prefer passive subs, such as my vmps', used w/an active outboard x-over, such as my marchand xm-9 deluxe, and your choice of decent-quality amplification. 1st, i believe the quality of the amplification & x-over electronics is *far* superior to that offered in active, powered subs. also, the flexibility is far greater, both for initial set-up, & for future changes. also, i don't like the amps & electronics being so close to (inside?) the subs. also, most powered subs are smaller, using electronics to get lo-frequency response. passive subs (like vmps) use no trick electronics, yust simple engineering w/large, appropriately-sized boxes. yes, my subs, @~18d-26w-39h, *are* big...

then, there's the cost-thing. being a cheapskate, i rarely buy audio equipment that's not used, or a close-out. however, i bought my subs & x-over brand-gnu. these, w/my used adcom gfa555's to drive them (well, one was gnu, but it cost me $450, back in '85!), plus decent tara-labs cabling, cost me <$2.4k. and, the only subs i've ever heard that equal the low-end output, at such accurate, tight, non-distorted levels, were the 7' towers of the old infinity irs-lll's, now approxomated by the top-line $135k/pair genesis speakers. there's *no way* i could afford, even used, to get the quality & quantity of bass my sub system is capable of, at anywhere *near* the price, imho.

ymmv, doug s.

vmps' are good *and* cheap. :>) i've heard the top-line welodynes, & the mid-line rels in one-sub set-ups - they never sounded right, the bass always sounded like it was coning from the sub, never blended into the soundstage, and was boomy one-note *thump*. perhaps set-up was poor. the *only* time i ever heard a single sub set-up sound ok was a hsu powered sub - one of the older models that, while round, wasn't as tall as the latest iterations. it was placed in the near-field, like a coffee-table, right in front of ya. the soundstaging was wery natural...

doug s.

jayboard, if this worked, it'd be purely coincidental - what if your room resonance was @ 120hz? i don't tink ewe wood wanna raise the monitors' x-over point to, say, 140hz, and the subs' to 100hz, yust to deal w/this, if better integration between sub-monitor were, say - 60hz. ideally, ewe set the x-over point as low as possible... there are good (& expensive) room-equalizers awailable that are designed to tame room-dependent frequency abberations...

one feature that my marchand x-over has, that makes it easier to integrate my subs w/my monitors is a separate wolume control *at* the x-over point, as well as wolume controls for the subs & the monitors. i have it set at -2db, which works best, w/my speakers, in my room. this was verified w/a pink-noise generator & spectrum analyzer.

regards, doug s.