2. digital
  3. 150091-110508

Tidal vs Hi Res Files vs CD vs “Netflix”. My test. Incredible!

1.     Introduction. I know there are several threads on different forums about similar subjects, but I couldn’t find one with the exact information I wanted, so I performed my own test.

This is not a scientific test, but I’ve got very consistent results that I want to share and read your opinions.

2.     First, the basics:

        2.1. I listen to ALL of my music streaming Tidal because I like very much its infinite library, the instant access to the music, the chance to make lists with different artists by gender and not having to listen to entire records, the cost of all that music against having a private library of CDs or Hi Res files, the interface, the information of the artists, the chance of finding new and amazing music, etc.

        2.2. If I decide to change Tidal (for CD for instance) it would have to be due to a SIGNIFICANT difference in sound quality.

        2.3. For the test I used the EXACT same system for every source, from the DAC to the speakers (pream, power amp cables, etc). By the way, the system is a hi end and a pretty revealing one, so I can hear the differences easily.

        2.4. I used only Tidal as HiFi streaming service as I don’t have Qobuz where I live (Argentina).

        2.5. For the comparisons I used the same songs in different formats and sources, most of the times (not always), from the same album when possible.

I know you will say that different masters from any band will differ in sound quality and I know that, but I’ve got consistent and very similar results on the different tests and if I have to choose a source with the effort of chasing each song’s perfect recording/master, it would be endless, pointless and very expensive.

        2.6. The songs I used are NOT audiophile grade recordings, BUT they serve for the purpose as they were available from the different sources and my CD collection is very scarce.

        2.7. I did only a few test as I don’t have the time and the patience to spend hours on this subject as I’m not a reviewer and, as I’ve said, the results were consistent.

       2.8. Cables (speaker, USB, RCA/Coaxial, Power, etc) are good enough, but not the most expensive ones (Kimber and DH Labs mostly).

       2.9. I did A/B test with almost no delay, as the three rigs tested were connected to different inputs of my DAC and I only had to switch between them. That helped me A LOT to detect the differences.

3. Rigs for the tests (upstream from the DAC)

       3.1. Computer-USB chain (for Tidal and Hi Res Files):

              Ethernet Cisco Gigabyte Switch and CAT8 Ethernet cable to my Windows 10 Notebook.

              Audinirvana+ for streaming Tidal or playing Hi Res files from the hard disk.

              Audioquest Jitterbug as pasive filter for the USB port.

              Wyred4Sound USB Reclocker with a Swagman Hifi Linear Power Supply.

              Gustard U16 USB to I2S converter (a very good upgrade in my system).

              I2S 2.1 protocol (HDMI) cable to the DAC.

      3.2. CD Player Rig:

             Samsung budget Blue-Ray player.

             Coaxial cable (Kimber 1m long) to my DAC.

       3.3. Netflix Rig:

              LG Smart Tv.

              Cheap Amazon Toslink/Optical cable to my DAC.

The Tv uses WiFi for connection, instead of Ethernet cable like the computer (wich is much better soundwise), and it is not connected to the AC Power conditioners and Filters as the USB-Computer chain is.

4.  Tests

      4.1. CD vs Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA)

          4.1.1.       Band: Huey Lewis and the News

                          Tidal (Hi Fi and MQA) Album: Sports.

                          CD Album: The Best of Huey Lewis.

                          Best sound in order:

                          a.       Tidal MQA

                          b.     CD

                          c.       Tidal HiFi

NOTE: the differences/gaps in sound quality between a; b and c were similar. NOT big, but noticeable and “very consistent with the next tests (A-ha and Coldplay)”. I also think I noticed them as I changed fast from one source to the next. Otherway, I think it would be hard to detect them.

           4.1.2.       Band: A-ha

                           Tidal (MQA) Album: Time and Again, The ultimate A-ha.

                           CD and Tidal (Hi Fi) Album: The Hits of A-ha (not available on MQA).

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.       Tidal MQA

                           b.     CD

                           c.       Tidal HiFi

           4.1.3.       Band: Coldplay

                           Tidal (HiFi and MQA) Album: A head full of dreams.

                           CD Album: A head full of dreams.

                           Best sound in order:

                           a.   Tidal MQA

                           b.   CD

                           c.     Tidal HiFi

      4.2. Hi Res (PCM 96/24) vs Tidal (only Hi Fi, not MQA)

           4.2.1.       Band: Pink Floyd.

                           Album (for both sources): The Division Bell.

HiRes file was a LITTLE better. May be so little that it could be placebo effect and so little that it doesn’t justify having HiRes files for computer playback.

     4.3. Netflix vs Tidal (Hifi)

Here I don’t have many choices as Netflix is not an audio streaming app.

I found the difference by chance. Nevertheless, before the tests, I always had the feeling that the sound coming from Netflix was somehow better than my USB rig, but I thought it wasn’t possible and it was only my imagination considering all the money I spent on my USB-Computer rig. BOY, I WAS WRONG!!

I only compared a couple of songs, but I didn’t need more than that a couple of direct comparison as I find ALL of the songs to sound better than my USB rig because I’ve been listening to the latter for a long time and, eventhough every recording is different, I know how it sounds my Rig in general (tone, soundstage, layering, imagining, impact, bass, etc).

The songs I used to make the A/B comparison are “Still falling for you” from Ellie Goulding from Bridget Jones’s baby Soundtrack and “Nothing’s gonna hurt you baby” from Cigarettes After Sex from Kidnapping Stella Soundtrack.

Well, eventhough they are NOT audiophile songs, the sound from my Tv (I repeat with wifi, cheap cable and NO AC conditioning) is SO MUCH better and analog than the one from my USB rig, that I still cannot believe it!!!

I cannot compare it to any other format than Tidal HiFi, but the difference is SO BIG that I think not even Tidal MQA on my USB-Computer rig comes close.

5.       Conclusions

      5.1. I know that if I get a better CD player I will get much better sound, but I also think that if I get a good streamer-transport, I will also improve my Tidal sound quality a lot, may be by a similar margin.

      5.2. So, Im after a good streamer-transport to get AT LEAST the sound quality I have with my Netflix rig. If I dont get it with it, I will recomend Tidal to hire Netflix engineers!!! J

6.       I would love to hear some other audiophiles “similar” experiences with CD vs Tidal vs other hifi digital formats and sources.

Please only post about real experiences, not getting to technical, as it gets boring and somehow useless.


plga
classdstreamer's avatar
classdstreamer
169 posts
 
@plga, it appears that the contributors here identified all the possible variables. Source files make a difference; software processing makes a difference; cables make a difference; a complex chain of interconnects can make a difference; DACs often privilege one input over others.

I would like to hear how toslink from your TV to DAC compares to toslink from your Gustard U16 to DAC. It looks like your Gustard U16 has various outputs to try. I wonder if AC line noise is entering the DAC on your PC chain by way of the Gustard power supply while the AC noise is removed from the TV chain through the use of toslink.
plga OP
184 posts
 
@classdstreamer that´s a good option.

Nevertheless, I think it will be worse as the I2S input of the Audio-GD R8 DAC is known to be the best input, as it is on almost any other Audio-GD and other brands DACs.

Also, all the USB conditioners are connected to two AC power conditioners: the Bada LB-5600 power filter and the Holton DC Blocker. The Tv isn’t.
spenrock
24 posts
 
Interesting work @plga!  A few comments:

A) I agree with @dpac996 (and others) that your computer source may be an issue. I use a macmini. At times is sounds great, at other times it sounds very poor (what some call digital).  It could be both internal operating system issues or, as I suspect, USB issues. USB just isn't consistently reliable in my experience.  I use an Audiophilleo that helps a lot, but at times, computer playback still has issues. It may also be a reason your Toslink connection sounds better.  As you or others have mentioned, an ethernet connected streamer might alter the results.

B) Regarding sibilance. If the sibilance is in the recording, the higher quality playback system will clearly "play" the sibilance because of the detail inherent in the system. The lower quality system will mask the sibilance. However, the sibilance can also be artificially enhanced by a playback system. You really need to know the recording to understand which it is.

C) If you have some sort of low-level ground hum or similar power related issue, perhaps the optical connection is breaking this, leading to the superior sounding Netflix playback. I have no experience with Netflix, so I cannot speak from with any authority, but it does "hurt my audiophile" ego that it could possibly sound better (LOL). It must be perfectly good explanation! Perhaps a power conditioner will reverse the results.

D) Your budget Samsung Blu-ray/CD transport really doesn't give your CD playback a fighting chance! Please borrow a reasonable CD transport and give the poor guy a chance. Your DAC should be great, but your transport is the limiting factor in my opinion.

Anyway, interesting experiment. Thanks for the food for thought!
murtazao2
4 posts
 
Netflix is definitely “enhancing” the sound to appeal more. There were news articles earlier this month around Stranger Things season 2 release. They also provide different audio streams based on the client streamer (some TV’s and Xbox, Windows 10 app get higher quality streams) however the stream changes dynamically for a number of reasons. They are providing an entertainment service and are not opposed to remastering to make things appeal to customers more. I suspect Tidal is being closer to the original content. Doesn’t mean the remaster cannot sound better.

My suggestion to use Plex to stream a known file to the PC and TV, was to eliminate any potential uncertainty with the stream and source
classdstreamer's avatar
classdstreamer
169 posts
 
@plga, can you educate me on what the I2S connection does? From some poking around, I’ve read that the I2S connection separates the information from the clock. This way, the DAC can use the clock of the streamer rather than its own. Is my understanding correct?
More to discover