I think Kclone and Argyro are just telling it like it is.. Both simply describing the sound of different drivers technology incorporated into each their Pianos. My raw assumption here is that ceramics to provide the superior inner/micro detailing, thus in most cases, would also perform better at lower volume listening. |
Kclone, since you quantified this with sound pressure readings, I decided to check my listening levels with a Radio Shack sound pressure meter. I played several recordings of big band jazz cuts and symphonic cuts with what for me is loud levels. I set the RS meter on C reading and fast and in the 90 db range. I did get some peaks over 90 db, but overall the meter stayed in the minus range. I think I am playing at what I judge to be the normal level where I up close to the stage. I think the Tidal are very revealing of what comes before them, but I think my system is losing nothing at louder levels. |
I have the same experience as Mike with my Piano Cera's. It sounds great at background levels which is a signature of its great microdynamic response. In fact if you check my older posts you will see that this was a hallmark of the design upon my receipt 10 months ago. You may also want to check into your powerline conditioning. I am going to take my system to the next level and order a power regenerator (APS PP1050). Every change I make in my system can be easily discerned through the Tidals. |
I was using the Sonus Faber Electa Amator II's. A very nice speaker in their day; they are a small monitor and really it would not be fair to compare them to the really wonderful Piano Cera's. The Pianos' are beautiful, so balanced, neutral. It seems there is no distortion, well, none that I can detect. I am so thrilled with them. |
TBG, shouldn't you have the sound meter in the A position instead of C? I had mine on C and that is the reason some recordings were sounding quit at the same decibel levels as perceived louder recordings. I switched to A and it turns out I can turn the quiet ones up some and still be in the safe zone. |
Still early days for my piano cera. I have noticed incredible detail at low listening levels as well. This was before checking this thread and seeing that it was a current topic. I also currently have a full arsenal of synergistic on trial. I am going to give them some time to settle in before I really make any call. Still not sure on the mass of cables and plugs....we'll see. The Valhalla were definitely not a match and are now with new owners. I am going to try the stage 3 Magnus prime cables as well. I would also like to try siltech but auditioning these looks to be challenging. Cheers and happy New Year! |
Kclone, the RS meter's A and C setting "The weighting switch allows for switching between the standard 'A' and 'C' weightings. Choosing the 'C' weighting will make the meter respond uniformly over the frequency range from 32 - 10,000 Hz, and the 'A' weighting will make the meter more sensitive to frequencies in the range 500-10,000 Hz." I did try both but found little difference. I would think C is the widest and is the normal listening range. |
Hi Karel! What were the differences you are noticing the more you toe in? To me the tonalty of the sound changes as well as the soundstage. In my case the speaker is around 80cm from the side walls that is why right now I prefer to toe them in a lot, with the speakers crossing just behind me. I would say around 35 degrees of toe in. When I have them perpendicular to the back wall i get a more expansive soundstage but the side wall interferes more. the sound is also more dense with the toe-in I use! happy listening, Mike |
Hi Mike, mine are toed-in less, around 20 degrees. But I sit quite far, around 4.80m away, so the intersecting just behind head sounds about right in many cases. The speakers sit 2.35m apart (measured from center of drivers), 0.95m from side walls and 1.95m from rear wall (to back of speakers). I focus first in getting the best tonal density and mid bass definition, the soundstaging part then fall into place nicely with them totally disappearing. Re the perpendicular 'location' as mentioned in the manual, my understanding is that it's meant to suggest best for both speakers to sit at equal distances (perpendicular line) to back wall rather than the perpendicularity (toe-in) of the speaker's cabinet 'position' itself. |
Mike, I have not really tried to toe in much more than where my speakers are now (Contrivas are HEAVY to manoeuvre with). Where they are now is where the soundstage feels correct in width as well as depth for all sorts of different recordings from solitary poet with a guitar to jazz combo in a cellar or Yes's full menagerie of instruments, and from a Fazioli to full assault philharmonics. That indeed was the main difference with less or no toe-in. Also, my speakers still have non ceramic woofers and the correct toe-in is where the "crease" (grossly exaggerated term used only to get the idea across) between materials disappeared. Importantly, as you guys already pointed out, there is also the saturation of the sound that unmistakably falls in place. |
I am toed in at exactly 15ºs which intersects the center line just behind me. I noticed that the Sunrays at CES were also at about 15ºs. It is the realism of the sound stage that strikes me as enhanced with the "right" toe in. There are at least one pair of Sunrays and one pair of Contriva Diacera SEs for sale, which surprises me. |
Congrats George! After a year of ownership the Piano Cera still amazes me. I recently added APS's PurePower 1050 regenerator and didn't realize this level of performance was possible. It's been a while but they now sound better to me than my recollection of the Contriva Diacera SE within its performance limits in my small listening room. |
Tbg, Indeed saw that as well. I only can say that I'm extremely happy with my Sunray and don't have even the slightest intentions of selling them :). An amazing speaker, both its looks as well as the sound. Everyone that listened to mine fully agree. I don't look at other speakers anymore, I'm done! It's a nice feeling not having the constant urge looking for something better. Having the Sunray made me relax :). Only upgrade currently considering is acoustic treatment in my room. |
Tbg, I have B.M.C. on the radar (I have been interested in their CDP/DAC) but have not found the opportunity to hear their products yet. Pricewise, they look almost too good to be true, IF they can deliver what they promise. May take some time, but I'll revert to this. Meanwhile, here's the catalogue B.M.C. |
Sorry if I ask this question here. Since the counter (the one with tw diamond) and in my list I'm thinking of buying speakers, along with other speakers, magic q3, sasha wilson, focal teacher, Vandersteen 7. Seeking a speaker that has the strong point of transparency on average high ..... what do you recommend, it is very difficult to listen to them all. My listening room is about 50 square ...... my amp is a vitus audio SS101, preamp vitus sl 101. Thank you all. |
Ciro71, Since you posted here, you should have already very well guessed what the unanimous recommendation would be? ;) Anyway, in a room your size, I'd imagine that the Contriva would be a perfect fit. My room is similar in size, about 60m2 (approx.5m x 12m), and it gets filled-up pretty nice and easy. Amongst your list of speakers, it really boils down to your set of preference--tastes and biases, but in the transparency dept. (yes, esp.mid to high), I would rank the Tidal CD to be at/near the top of that list. And as to synergy with Vitus gears, hearsay that that's another winning combination as well. Maybe our friend Maxx1973 can chime in more on that. Goodluck |
Ciro71, I have never been tempted by any Wilson and only one Magico, the V3. Nothing has ever bitten me like the Contrivas on Ypsilon amps. Will something better come along? Who knows; I had concluded that all speakers are compromises and your only choice was which ones you tolerate and for how long. I went from compression drivers to Klipshorns to Infinity Servostats to KLM model 9, to compression drivers in Altecs to Avantgarde Duos to Trios to Beauhorns, to Accapella to Tidals. i think I missed several others in this journey. There are several Tidals for sale now as demos or used. Buy one! |
Ciro71, I was in a very similar situation few days ago, considering a replacement to my current W/P 8. Magico Q3, Wilson Sasha, Vandy 7, Consensus Conspiracy, and certainly Tidal Contriva Ceracia SE. I have only auditioned Magico and Sasha in my area, the others are still not available in Taiwan yet. After reading this thread, I took a bold move to buy SE blindly. It's on the way to my place, I will update my experience when they sit in my living room with Ayre KX-R and MX-R combo. Probably in 2 to 3 weeks. Forgive my English... |
Quanmer Thanks for your reply. What you found is the difference between q3 contrivas?? Why did you choose the contrivas? I look for a speaker that should be clear in the details ... and I think Tidal magic that is to be among the best in this parameter. Hello. PS Your English is ok ......... mine is ugly. |
Ciro71, I bought Tidal blindly, I did not hear them at all, no distributor for Tidal. But I did hear Marten, similar in design, ceramic drivers, Q3 is vert good, too. But I don't like the look, If you like the speaker can reproduce great details, many can do that, also your electronics, cable and wires all related. I will update when mine Tidal arrived. |
In waiting to hear contrivas, yesterday I heard the focal teacher Vitus SS101 with my amp ....... great speakers any parameter, and I must say that the synergy was perfect focal vitus. Now I am even more curious to hear the tidal contrivas. Have you ever done a comparison of the focal contrivas and master?? Hello everyone. |
Audioblazer: No dog in the Tidal fight, but my experience is that speakers, esp. expensive and large models with shipping issues, are routinely discounted more than 35-40%. Not unusual to find well-regarded speakers, esp. the bigguns, reselling at minus 50% or more. So I'd say the ads are consistent with claims that Tidals are in fact "the best in the world"! John |
Jdoris, tidal sun ray discounted 60-65% not 35-40%. is it common for big speakers to be discounted for more than 50% if its a couple of months old ?not too sure. Wilson maxx 2still selling for more than 50% retail price . Wilson maxx 3 even better resell value. Focal , Sonus faber Stradivari , Verity audio , enggleston , avalon , pretty gold 2nd hand value. |
2 hours already, my Contriva Diacera SE has been set up and tried several toe-in angles. First impression, it is in total different class from my original W/P 8, much taller, bigger soundstage, diamond tweeter bring more vivid / intimate music flow out from speakers. Can hear more detail, but not in Hifi;ish mode. Very coherent, definitely no fatigue at all especially using Ayre KX-R and MX-R. Anyone knows where to download user manual or has copy to share with m?, I don't know what those accessories for? |
Quanmer, Take the plugs out of the ports in back and don't use the shorting plugs, especially don't use them between the binding posts. There are unmarked plugins on the back of the speaker for them, but don't use them. I don't expect you are talking about the speaker stands. I have installed StillPoints Ultra Stainless Steel feet under my Contrivas with enormous improvement. Toe in for me is about 15ºs. Unless you bought a used pair, breakin is about 300 hours. |
