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Thoughts wanted for new speaker design

I am working to introduce a new speaker at Capital Audiofest this year and have a few tentative designs but wanted to do a little market research and see what you guys would find most interesting. Since I don’t have $40K for focus groups, thought I would ask your guys POV.

I currently offer two stand mounts - one which is a fiberglass based composite (Nightshade) and the other is Carbon Fiber bases (Blackthorn).

you can see them here at:

www.verdantaudio.com

i am currently sold out but will be back in stock in about two weeks.  

i am looking to see what you guys would be most interested in:

1. a higher efficiency standmount - 92dB to 93dB but will be using compression drivers. Material could be MDF or Bamboo but most like Bamboo. Price ~$2500

2. A less expensive standmount made from bamboo or MDF that will be ~$2000. Likely be less than $2000 if it is MDF.

3. A Nightshade (fiberglass) Floorstander that would retail at $8-$10,000.

4. A floorstander that would look like 1 or 2 though I expect the efficiency of 1 will be closer to 100dB. Retail $3500 to $5000.

Unless you guys saw me at AXPONA or know someone who bought my first batch of speakers I know you haven’t heard my current stand-mounts. Just looking for a POV on what will be most interesting to you.

Thanks in advance.






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Showing 18 responses by verdantaudio

verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
A sealed box that rolls off at 80hz is easy interesting.  I need to think about what to do with the crossovers tue drivers I am using can comfortably deliver that.  

It certainly would maximize flexibility in terms of placement.  Something to consider as I work on these more modestly priced products.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
They are not custom.  They are from Eton which are used less frequently here in the US than in Europe.  

They are spectacular drivers and they actually sound better than they look, and I think they look pretty fabulous.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@kenjit I am using the Arcosia’s but I buy them direct from Eton making them much more reasonably priced.   If you hear them you will understand why I use them.  

Spectacular drivers.  

verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
Yes, I am in Greenwich, CT.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
   @mcreyn I am leaning am leaning toward a speaker using compression drivers given that I import and Art Audio and that lineup is largely low power tube amps.  I have found a line of compression drivers I like and will do some experimentation.  

Regarding price, my speakers cabinets are made in Pennsylvania.  I am using very premium parts and by avoiding cutting corners, I can’t compete in the sub $1000 range.  That being said, because I am consumer direct, I can produce a speaker that is as good or better than other products in the $2K+ range.  And at higher price points, I am a value.  Unless I go to Indonesia for production, I could never the powered speaker you are talking about.  

@mijostyn  Fascinating tips around crossover design and consistent with other suggestions I have received.  Will take it into account for this and future designs.

 @keithtexas   I will look at your suggestion and see what I can do.  $3K might be tough to do out of a premium cabinet material like bamboo but I am 100% certain I will produce a design like this at some point to go with my Carissa and Opus 2 amps from Art Audio.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
My production facility is in PA.  I don’t have a showroom but will schedule appointments in my home.  Or, I will come to you so you can listen in your home.   
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@alexwichai1  I am not 100% sure I could do a high efficiency speaker with Eton drivers.  A “narrow” baffle, high efficiency speaker is a challenge at any price.

How narrow of a baffle are you looking for and what kind of bass response are you looking for?  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@gs5556  the single biggest differentiating factor in my current speakers is the cabinets.  The Nightshades are made using a fiberglass cabinet over a DuPont Nomex Honeycomb core and the Blackthorns are Carbon Fiber over the same core.  

The composites provide rigidity while the honeycomb core dampens the sound due the increased surface area.  

The cabinets behave very differently vs. MDF.  They don’t resonate the same way and the result is a clearer and cleaner sound.  

I am exploring other products to offer a more approachable price point.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@Alexwichai2 12cm is very doable.  

Shooting for 93dB, also very doable.  With compression drivers I could go much higher though I am not sure I can give you a low frequency response of 18dB.  With two 10” to 11”  woofers I am certain we can get low though.

With Eton drivers I would have to use 2 tweeters and mid ranges to get the higher SPL.  The Heco’s are 3000 GBP from what I see.  I could do something at that price made of wood and probably paper drivers like Eton’s orchestra line.  Compression drivers would give you a higher SPL but worse bass response.  That is the trade-off

This would take me six months to perfect and you wouldn’t get to hear them in advance.  Far from ideal.


verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@jeffseight  I can produce a Pulsar-like speaker using the exact drivers from Seas in a 1” thick Bamboo cabinet that would be stained or cleared for $4000.  I could also do them in a veneered or painted MDF but I think bamboo is the better choice.  

“Solid” bamboo panels are engineered.  The advantage is that density is remarkably consistent and because it is a grass and not a wood, it doesn’t expand and contract the way hardwoods do with moisture.  It is also 29% stronger than red oak.  

I would customize the crossover to the exact cabinet I create based around those speakers. I would plan to use Clarity Cap CSA caps and Goertz copper foil inductors to maximize clarity which are standard in my Blackthorns and would still use WBT binding posts and Kimber Kable inside which is standard in all my speakers.


verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@elliottbnewcombjr  Thanks you for your POV.  I am leaning toward a higher efficiency stand-mount that would pair with the Art Audio Carissa (18w SET) which I import and have one in inventory to use for shows.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@keithtexas   Those Trenner and Friedl ISIS are $40K.  Holy crap.  The only way a pair of speakers that size could be made by hand for less than $6K would be to make it out of MDF and I am not sure I could ever hit $3k with drivers and crossover parts that I would be proud to put in a product of mine.  

MDF is not going to perform the way the hardwood plywood Trenner and Friedl are using is going to perform.  The sound will be muddier and IMO, wouldn't even be a poor man's imitation.  

In round numbers, I could probably do a baltic birch plywood cabinet in the $6K range with a mainstream veneer.  "Solid" bamboo (engineered planks) would be in the $7K to $7.5K range.  These will be much closer in terms of sound profile.  I am not privy to the method they are using for venting so I am certain mine will sound different but would be excellent.  They definitely wouldn't be identical but I could do a "poor man's version" in better materials that you might be pleased with.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@bigkidz  I agree.  When I set out to start something I wanted it to be differentiated.  Why bother putting out another MDF cabinet speaker using the scanspeak, SEAS or SB drivers.  

Thus, my composite cabinets made from prefabricated sheets- I am not the first to use composites but I am by far the least expensive and I think if you heard the Blackthorns in particular, you will be pleasantly surprised at sound quality.  You won't say I haven't head anything like that before, but you will probably say I haven't heard anything like that before at that price.  Quite a few people did at AXPONA.     

The unfortunate part is that my prices start pretty high and it is tough for people to engage with the brand which is why I started this thread.  The question is, how can I make these things my own, in a differentiated way.  

If you are going to be at Capital Audiofest.  Pop in.  I am going to have room 525.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@keithtexas   Was going through the implications and am not expecting you to buy them.  More, do you think with significant deviations in terms of price and material these would still be interesting?

i think I need to figure out how to make something cheaper and I love the idea of a $3K floorstander.  Just not sure how to do it.  

  


verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@ajnackman   Thank you!  This is really helpful insight.  I am definitely going to produce a competitively priced, higher efficiency, stand-mount.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@davignau  -  Think of it this way, if I spend $40K on research, that goes into the cost of the speakers and needs to be recovered increasing the price or increasing the number of units that need to be sold to break even.  You correctly pointed out that development costs money.  Spending the money on focus groups adds to that cost.  

Focus groups are intended to screen ideas and generate new ideas. I have a list that I think are interesting and received a couple ideas above that I had not considered.  I can take these ideas along with the ones I already have, drop them in quant research to see which has the most superficial appeal and then I can work on development.  I have to then deliver on the superficial idea. 

so no, I don't expect you to choose between things you have never heard. That would be silly. Just looking for ideas.  

I have successfully brought two products to market that were well received by both consumers and the press earlier in the year but they are expensive.  We shall see if I can make it a third that will ideally be at a more competitive price point.  




verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@jeffseight   I have a cabinet maker who is working on a cabinet for those those magnesium SEAS drivers and millennium tweeter.  
verdantaudio's avatar
verdantaudio OP
1,469 posts
 
@elliottbnewcombjr    You are right!!!!  Can't believe I used that word in a post.  
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