Thoughts on Tube vs SS amplification for Sony SS AR1s

Thanks everyone for the very helpful input - you’ve given me a few things to research, and of course reminded me to trust my ears (always a good reminder). @erik thats an interesting point you made about lower volume listening - I’ll spend some time listening a bit more carefully and see if can hear what you’re describing.

@jond thats exactly what i should be doing, you’re right~ I wish I had an SS amp on hand just to compare (I can’t imagine them sounding much better than they do)

@george accuphase seems to have some good integrated that double through to 2 ohms. Do you have any personal suggestions?

@miller thats exactly what i have been thinking as i listen to the luxman - forget what it says on paper, i cant see it sounding much better - one thing i dont get about the lx 380 is the power output for 4 ohms seems to be weakest? 20W + 20W (6Ω), 18W + 18W (8Ω), 14W + 14W (4Ω)
I’m not sure how to interpret that...

Hey George
Thanks for the thoughts - even the mono block ma9s2 you think would be a poor fit?  I could go the route of separates if there are more options there that are likely to get the best out of these SS AR1s (I’ve only even had integrateds, so separates would be new for me)

Hi all - again, I cant tell everyone how much i appreciate the advice (extremely helpful).

As Charles pointed out, this is indeed a head scratcher - either the luxman has qualities that the spec sheet alone doesn’t account for, or I am in for a revelation if i can get my hands on a good SS amp (because this is already the best my setup has ever sounded, and the first thing my wife said was ‘everything sounds so balanced and full’ from the lows to the highs - this seems to go against what the measurements would predict when using the luxman). I’ll definitely keep people posted.

 I had had my eye on a few options (in keeping with the Japanese hi-fi theme of the speakers - i have a soft spot for these brands)
- accuphase e650
- marantz ma9s2
- Yamaha a s3000

Aesthetically, i have to admit I’m a fan of the Yamaha, but i know on paper it’s probably not the best of the three. The marantz monoblocks and preamp seem very highly regarded, but going from the single box LX380, those giant champagne boxes are going to look a bit ostentatious. I had a chance to pick up a rare sony TA-DR1a , but could find very little info on it. I’ll see if i can find someone local who perhaps has something that would fit and be willing to try it out here~

(if anyone has any strong opinion about the Yamaha, would be glad to hear your thoughts~)

thanks!

Hi all
Per the advice everyone has provided I am looking into some separates that have reliable specs for power into 2 ohms (seems like there are a number of good options here) - will definitely report back as this is an interesting subject. 

Thanks!

If we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic and people lived nearby, I’d invite you all over for a listen!

hi all,
just a quick update but I did a few more casual tests with some other family members (brothers in law, etc) and was as careful as possible not to say anything that would bias them. Everyone so far,  unprompted, has said the same things about the two amps. 
I wanted some other opinions just to make sure I’m not crazy, and everyone has described the luxman’s output as more lifelike and vibrant (referring to the clarity of the mids and highs relative to the sound of the Accuphase) - one brother in law said amp A was like looking directly at the music , amp b was like looking at it through a window. 

@ddude interesting you’ve seen this before too. Maybe it’s a real phenomenon that just isn’t acknowledged much? 
@charles1dad @atmasphere I’ll let you know if I have a chance to test with any other kinds of amps. 

Hi All,
I know it's been a while, but I thought I would report back as so many of you gave me helpful advice. I had a chance to try the SS AR1s with a very capable Accuphase integrated and the results were clear and surprising. 

Relative to the tube-based Luxman LX380, the solid state (and much more powerful class A/AB) Accuphase was muddy and muffled (and I say this as someone who was highly biased towards the Accuphase and was anticipating great things). As soon as I swapped them I could tell something had happened to the mid and high end of the spectrum - things were not nearly as clear or articulate - it was like there was a veil of something in between the music and me (really obvious on things like voices and acoustic guitar for example). I really can't think of any better word than 'muffled.'  I thought perhaps I was mis-hearing things so I had my wife do a few casual tests with her back to the equipment, and unprompted she made the same comments about "amp B" (the Accuphase).   With the Accuphase I certainly noticed a bit more definition in the lower registers and bass lines had a bit more clarity to them, but a) the difference wasn't like night and day relative to the Luxman (they were very close), and b) it seemed to involve a massive trade off for what I can only describe as 'transparency' in the high end. with the Accuphase in place vocals and acoustic instruments sound like a thin door has been closed between the music and my listening position (honestly)

I am really surprised/stumped as to the results, as I had high expectations for the Accuphase and the SS AR1s. This Accuphase amp is highly regarded and in all the literature I read I would never have expected this outcome, but that's what my ears told me in the end. Obviously this is all down to individual taste and opinion, but the clarity of the Luxman was not bested by this entrant.

re next steps, I guess im looking at either something like very capable SS mono blocks (like the Marantz ma9s2) to see if that can overcome the acuphase's shortcomings, or a more powerful tube amp (which again, on paper, shouldn't play this well with the SS AR1s, but there you have it) - still not sure how the LX380's specs on paper should be working this well with these Sony's, but they sound far superior to the first SS contender~

Till next time!

Hi everyone
Thanks for the follow up comments~

@tomcy6 , I know exactly what you mean and I went looking for anything simple that would explain the lack of energy in the highs (like tone controls being engaged, etc).  There was nothing seemingly out of place, and if I didn't have the Luxman to compare it with, I would likely be extremely pleased, because the low end definitely had good authority and clarity. I know I'm not describing it well, but its like the Accuphase is putting all its attention into the low and low-mid end of the spectrum, and not bringing out a ton of character/clarity in the upper ranges - there is a track we were listening to with just male vocals and a guitar: with the Luxman he's in the room with you, with the Accuphase it sounds like he's trapped in the speakers.

@petg, thanks for the recommendations (those Sony amps would be amazing to come across)

@charles1dad yeah, I just wanted to update the group because I too found it really interesting. I'm by no means a bonefied expert in any of this, but just to provide some context for the other references I've had, I've spent time with really excellent amps from Luxman and Accuphase (obviously), Hegel, Sony, Yamaha, Vincent, Technics, JP-market Denon, and a few others. The Accuphase isn't in the top 3 for me - its also possible that I had such high expectations I set myself up for some disappointment, but it is interesting that you can't tell from just the numbers how things will sound. The Luxman has stayed at the top of the list for musicality (for me). One thing I wonder if if the LX380 is sounding so good on these SS AR1s, would a higher power tube amp from Luxman also perform well? If I get a chance to find out, I'll let you know~

Hi all,
I’ve certainly learned a few things through this insightful exchange - thanks Charles and Atmosphere! I don’t know as much as I’d like to about amplifier topologies, but this has helped me a lot!

if I have any other listening takeaways, I’ll definitely let you know - I haven’t entirely thrown in the towel on high powered SS amps and may try another just to see. 
Take care
samuel 

Hey Bill!
Just saw your note - how did the pairing go?

Thanks
Samuel