Thoughts on 845 set monoblocks

First, compared to other tube amps, I consider 845 SET in general to be exceptional contenders for superb musicality on a wide variety of speakers. So my comparative comments in response to question are just that -- comparative.

In isolation a Dehavilland 845 is a fine amp. Compared to some of the better alternatives, it has a consistently dry, desiccated character that isn't poor, but it lacks tonal body in a relative sense. I wanted intensely to prefer the Dehavilland, being USA made, but it just couldn't transport me far enough to an experience of musical integrity -- with any tube. And to the extent it matters, her industrial design is pitiful. It wouldn't cost any more to make a more visually-pleasing amp.

The Viva particularly, and to an extent the also-Italian Mastersound, has a vintage "slow" voicing of old school tubes. Shindo-like, which isn't to me a good thing comparatively. It is a big, voluable, romantic sound, but missing the speed, quick rise time and dynamic splash of the Audion and Sophia. Pleasant and rounded but not nuanced and vivid in a lifelike fashion. I am describing differences of degree. The NFA is more open than the Viva, but still sweetly flavored by comparison. The Dared, I think no longer made, is a sleeper at a low price, especially if the input and driver tubes are replaced with better NOS options. Based on all the rest of their gear, I have high confidence in the Melody Valve Hifi 845 SET monoblocks.

I've heard the KR 845 in some of these amps, the Shuguang 845 A, B and C in most. Also vintage NOS RCA and United. I've avoided the low-plate dissipation Full Music 845s. Consistently, the B tube is the value point, and quite reliable. I have a pair going on 7 years that still test quite strong.

The Japan-sourced Tri (Triode Corp) also has old school voicing, but i am certain all of these amps can be further voiced for more realism by re-capping the power supplied. I recommend Bob Hovland for this kind of exploration.

Phil

First, compared to other tube amps, I consider 845 SET in general to be exceptional contenders for superb musicality on a wide variety of speakers. So my comparative comments in response to question are just that -- comparative.

In isolation a Dehavilland 845 is a fine amp. Compared to some of the better alternatives, it has a consistently dry, desiccated character that isn't poor, but it lacks tonal body in a relative sense. I wanted intensely to prefer the Dehavilland, being USA made, but it just couldn't transport me far enough to an experience of musical integrity -- with any tube. And to the extent it matters, her industrial design is pitiful. It wouldn't cost any more to make a more visually-pleasing amp.

The Viva particularly, and to an extent the also-Italian Mastersound, has a vintage "slow" voicing of old school tubes. Shindo-like, which isn't to me a good thing comparatively. It is a big, voluable, romantic sound, but missing the speed, quick rise time and dynamic splash of the Audion and Sophia. Pleasant and rounded but not nuanced and vivid in a lifelike fashion. I am describing differences of degree. The NFA is more open than the Viva, but still sweetly flavored by comparison. The Dared, I think no longer made, is a sleeper at a low price, especially if the input and driver tubes are replaced with better NOS options. Based on all the rest of their gear, I have high confidence in the Melody Valve Hifi 845 SET monoblocks.

I've heard the KR 845 in some of these amps, the Shuguang 845 A, B and C in most. Also vintage NOS RCA and United. I've avoided the low-plate dissipation Full Music 845s. Consistently, the B tube is the value point, and quite reliable. I have a pair going on 7 years that still test quite strong.

The Japan-sourced Tri (Triode Corp) also has old school voicing, but i am certain all of these amps can be further voiced for more realism by re-capping the power supplied. I recommend Bob Hovland for this kind of exploration.

Phil

What tubes have you tried with these amps. Have you heard the Viva amps and if yes how would you compare them.

agree to what extent i can. haven't had the opportunity
to sample any other amps of same type side by side. i have
the audion 845 quattro, an older model, 4 boxes.attached to
dunleavy sc4a.my first reaction to them was that they were
like magneplanars with bass. you are right, they excel with voice ( and piano). i also have dared 845 amp in another place ( thru klipsch forte II) which give similar impression.
not likely that i will move them side by side. they are large beasts in different homes.845 replacements difficult/expensive to get.Chalky white for the shuguang 845s is good characterization but only in comparison and
not objectionable day to day.

Above:

>>Spatial presentation is sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps.<<

Has an error. I meant to type:

Spatial presentation ISN'T sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps.

Phil

Hi 213cobra,
That was an interesting summary.
Where does the Italian NFA(love the elegant looks) and the Dehavilland fit in this list? If I ever need(I don`t currently) more power the 845 SET is where I`d start.
Regards,

I've heard most of the 845 amps on the market since the mid-90s. The very best I've heard are the Audion Black Shadow SET monoblocks. The Audion Elite is the same circuit in a three-chassis configuration that isolates the power supply to a third chassis. I ended up buying them, now seven years in. I haven't yet heard an 845 amp at any price that can equal or exceed their sound quality.

The Audion 845 amps benefit from a simple circuit: solid state rectification, one input tube, one driver tube and the 845 power tube. Internal components are premium quality, the audio wirepath is silver, transformers are Audion's own and are excellent. The only way in which I've heard another 845 amp better the Black Shadow is in noise. The Audion amps are not noisy in context of everything SET, but the also-excellent Sophia 845 is quieter -- probably the quietest 845SET amp I've heard. The Sophia amp is also the closest to the Audion in total sound quality. Now, keep in mind that the noise in the Black Shadows is only noticeable when music *isn't* playing. And if you listen to vinyl, source noise will completely overwhelm the amp noise in even the quietest of passages. But if you're open to SET, you're signing up for more noise than conventional push-pull tube or solid state gear anyway. Further, there are options for reducing the nominal noise of an Audion 845 amp to, by comparison, Sophia levels.

Why the Audion amps? They have the character of live, unamplified music: able to combine exceptional revelation of nuance with visceral dynamic punch. They have the tone density of flea power SET amp without their slowness and sunset glow. The Black Shadow, like all Audion amps, is uniquely "fast" and absent the dulling or rounding of transient events yet also completely absent any emphasis of the leading edge that comes with so many solid state or modern tube amps voiced to sound like solid state.

Spatial presentation is sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps. The unity of presentation and the amp's ability to keep simultaneous events and tones sorted is really remarkable, especially under crescendo conditions. Some other otherwise very good 845 amps blur complexity in music when power requirements surge. Not the Audions. Presentation stays intact throughout their dynamic range. The transparency into the character and truth of a recording is obvious but also so normal that you scarcely notice it until you take it away by substituting another amp. You get all this without damage to the basic hifi necessities of truthful octave-to-octave frequency balance and evenly distributed dynamic range. Voice tells the tale. You won't want any other 845, if you can afford these.

All that said, 845 amps in general are an excellent category to choose from, and price plays its role. But if sound quality alone drives you, I put Audion at the pinnacle of the pyramid, with Sophia a close next-best. Several Chinese makers are coming on strong. On any of these amps, the choice of 845 tube has a big effect on overall character. Most ship with the cheap and cheerful Sino 845A. It's fine but sounds a little chalky, white. It also gives all these amps less spatial realism than almost every amp is capable of. The 845B seriously improves things. Some people go further and recommend the Psvane 845T, which I haven't heard.

A polar graph of attributes would show the Audion to have the closest to a perfect circle of fidelity, Sophia close behind. Everything else gives up something, but can still sound sensational. These two front runners yield vivid yet delicate, punchy yet nuanced, toneful yet ascetic presentations as the music calls for, and bass will be among best you'll hear from a tube amp of any topology. There are push-pull 845 amps as well, but they won't match what these SET amps can do, albeit with less power.

Phil