Thoughts on 845 set monoblocks

I've heard most of the 845 amps on the market since the mid-90s. The very best I've heard are the Audion Black Shadow SET monoblocks. The Audion Elite is the same circuit in a three-chassis configuration that isolates the power supply to a third chassis. I ended up buying them, now seven years in. I haven't yet heard an 845 amp at any price that can equal or exceed their sound quality.

The Audion 845 amps benefit from a simple circuit: solid state rectification, one input tube, one driver tube and the 845 power tube. Internal components are premium quality, the audio wirepath is silver, transformers are Audion's own and are excellent. The only way in which I've heard another 845 amp better the Black Shadow is in noise. The Audion amps are not noisy in context of everything SET, but the also-excellent Sophia 845 is quieter -- probably the quietest 845SET amp I've heard. The Sophia amp is also the closest to the Audion in total sound quality. Now, keep in mind that the noise in the Black Shadows is only noticeable when music *isn't* playing. And if you listen to vinyl, source noise will completely overwhelm the amp noise in even the quietest of passages. But if you're open to SET, you're signing up for more noise than conventional push-pull tube or solid state gear anyway. Further, there are options for reducing the nominal noise of an Audion 845 amp to, by comparison, Sophia levels.

Why the Audion amps? They have the character of live, unamplified music: able to combine exceptional revelation of nuance with visceral dynamic punch. They have the tone density of flea power SET amp without their slowness and sunset glow. The Black Shadow, like all Audion amps, is uniquely "fast" and absent the dulling or rounding of transient events yet also completely absent any emphasis of the leading edge that comes with so many solid state or modern tube amps voiced to sound like solid state.

Spatial presentation is sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps. The unity of presentation and the amp's ability to keep simultaneous events and tones sorted is really remarkable, especially under crescendo conditions. Some other otherwise very good 845 amps blur complexity in music when power requirements surge. Not the Audions. Presentation stays intact throughout their dynamic range. The transparency into the character and truth of a recording is obvious but also so normal that you scarcely notice it until you take it away by substituting another amp. You get all this without damage to the basic hifi necessities of truthful octave-to-octave frequency balance and evenly distributed dynamic range. Voice tells the tale. You won't want any other 845, if you can afford these.

All that said, 845 amps in general are an excellent category to choose from, and price plays its role. But if sound quality alone drives you, I put Audion at the pinnacle of the pyramid, with Sophia a close next-best. Several Chinese makers are coming on strong. On any of these amps, the choice of 845 tube has a big effect on overall character. Most ship with the cheap and cheerful Sino 845A. It's fine but sounds a little chalky, white. It also gives all these amps less spatial realism than almost every amp is capable of. The 845B seriously improves things. Some people go further and recommend the Psvane 845T, which I haven't heard.

A polar graph of attributes would show the Audion to have the closest to a perfect circle of fidelity, Sophia close behind. Everything else gives up something, but can still sound sensational. These two front runners yield vivid yet delicate, punchy yet nuanced, toneful yet ascetic presentations as the music calls for, and bass will be among best you'll hear from a tube amp of any topology. There are push-pull 845 amps as well, but they won't match what these SET amps can do, albeit with less power.

Phil

Above:

>>Spatial presentation is sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps.<<

Has an error. I meant to type:

Spatial presentation ISN'T sacrificed to power, as often happens with gutsy push-pull amps.

Phil

First, compared to other tube amps, I consider 845 SET in general to be exceptional contenders for superb musicality on a wide variety of speakers. So my comparative comments in response to question are just that -- comparative.

In isolation a Dehavilland 845 is a fine amp. Compared to some of the better alternatives, it has a consistently dry, desiccated character that isn't poor, but it lacks tonal body in a relative sense. I wanted intensely to prefer the Dehavilland, being USA made, but it just couldn't transport me far enough to an experience of musical integrity -- with any tube. And to the extent it matters, her industrial design is pitiful. It wouldn't cost any more to make a more visually-pleasing amp.

The Viva particularly, and to an extent the also-Italian Mastersound, has a vintage "slow" voicing of old school tubes. Shindo-like, which isn't to me a good thing comparatively. It is a big, voluable, romantic sound, but missing the speed, quick rise time and dynamic splash of the Audion and Sophia. Pleasant and rounded but not nuanced and vivid in a lifelike fashion. I am describing differences of degree. The NFA is more open than the Viva, but still sweetly flavored by comparison. The Dared, I think no longer made, is a sleeper at a low price, especially if the input and driver tubes are replaced with better NOS options. Based on all the rest of their gear, I have high confidence in the Melody Valve Hifi 845 SET monoblocks.

I've heard the KR 845 in some of these amps, the Shuguang 845 A, B and C in most. Also vintage NOS RCA and United. I've avoided the low-plate dissipation Full Music 845s. Consistently, the B tube is the value point, and quite reliable. I have a pair going on 7 years that still test quite strong.

The Japan-sourced Tri (Triode Corp) also has old school voicing, but i am certain all of these amps can be further voiced for more realism by re-capping the power supplied. I recommend Bob Hovland for this kind of exploration.

Phil

First, compared to other tube amps, I consider 845 SET in general to be exceptional contenders for superb musicality on a wide variety of speakers. So my comparative comments in response to question are just that -- comparative.

In isolation a Dehavilland 845 is a fine amp. Compared to some of the better alternatives, it has a consistently dry, desiccated character that isn't poor, but it lacks tonal body in a relative sense. I wanted intensely to prefer the Dehavilland, being USA made, but it just couldn't transport me far enough to an experience of musical integrity -- with any tube. And to the extent it matters, her industrial design is pitiful. It wouldn't cost any more to make a more visually-pleasing amp.

The Viva particularly, and to an extent the also-Italian Mastersound, has a vintage "slow" voicing of old school tubes. Shindo-like, which isn't to me a good thing comparatively. It is a big, voluable, romantic sound, but missing the speed, quick rise time and dynamic splash of the Audion and Sophia. Pleasant and rounded but not nuanced and vivid in a lifelike fashion. I am describing differences of degree. The NFA is more open than the Viva, but still sweetly flavored by comparison. The Dared, I think no longer made, is a sleeper at a low price, especially if the input and driver tubes are replaced with better NOS options. Based on all the rest of their gear, I have high confidence in the Melody Valve Hifi 845 SET monoblocks.

I've heard the KR 845 in some of these amps, the Shuguang 845 A, B and C in most. Also vintage NOS RCA and United. I've avoided the low-plate dissipation Full Music 845s. Consistently, the B tube is the value point, and quite reliable. I have a pair going on 7 years that still test quite strong.

The Japan-sourced Tri (Triode Corp) also has old school voicing, but i am certain all of these amps can be further voiced for more realism by re-capping the power supplied. I recommend Bob Hovland for this kind of exploration.

Phil

I haven't heard the Trenner speakers and I emphasize that my earlier descriptions are of differences of degree. The Viva amp sounds beautiful and it will impress someone who hasn't a lot of experience with 845 amps as being fast, vivid and dynamic, compared with the tube amps most tube amp listeners have available to them. However, I'll also say that I've heard most of these amps through Zu speakers, which are themselves fast, dynamic and vivid, *and crossoverless*. My experience is that having a passive crossover in the signal path -- even a simple one for a 2-way -- diminishes the differences between amplifiers, particularly in perceived event speed, tone density and dynamics. The crossover is a choke point, compared to not having one. The Viva sounds slower and "voiced" to me by comparison. The Audion, more open, transparent and objective.

Now it's arguable that I might, for example, prefer a Viva amp on a Zu speaker over an Audion driving a Trenner. It's also possible that differences that are meaningful to me are too small to influence preference to someone else. And the number of 845 amp choices on the market continues to proliferate. There are more than ever, I think. But so far, while having heard many great amps (because it's hard to go wrong with an 845) I haven't heard better than Audion in an 845. Sometimes people ask me to recommend an 845 amp and I'll answer by tossing out five or six, advisng that any of them will do. But they always press for a "best." The Audion isn't cheap, nor is the new Sophia, but that's my answer.

One more point: In another thread some months back I pointed out how much can be done to improve an amp via power supply capacitors. Some amp designs are highly susceptible to beneficial alternation through recapping. Last year, Bob Hovland recapped my Audion 845 monoblocks, which further evolved every advantage the Black Shadow has over other 845s, without changing the essential character of the amp. I've heard much more transformative recaps on some other amps Bob massaged, including my Audion Golden Dream monoblocks, 300B PSET big sister to the Black Shadow. In the Golden Dream case, Bob's recap took what was already the best sounding amp I've owned (above 100 Hz) and made it not only significantly better but also rendered it effective in deep bass, where 300B amps are most problemmatic. The Golden Dream is a different take than the 845 Black Shadow, still more resolving and nuanced, but it costs more too, and packs more silver. Point is, if you have a Viva, for example, and want it to be more like I describe an Audion, send it to Bob Hovland or someone like him for an educated recap of the power supply. I heard a disappointing Tri 845 integrated. It was clearly voiced to the more traditionally romantic SET sound often heard in Japanese boutique tube electronics. But it also had many excellent qualities lurking in the mix. I have no doubt that if the owner had been willing to have the amp recapped, its performance could have been elevated to be satisfying more in the way the Audions are, for much less. Keep in mind that if your amplifiers have been priced to support channel distribution, your $10,000 amplifier has about $2,000 of cost in materials, labor and packaging. There are compromises made for economic reasons that leave some of the potential of a great design unexploited. A transformative recap might only cost a few hundred. Two electrolytics of the same rating can sound quite different, as other factors in chemistry, configuration and even shape affect their discharge characteristics. Also, there is more than one way to a destination. I generally favor the simplest circuits, but the Sophia, coming so close to the Audion, does it with more tubes, more wire, more parts than many others.

Phil

Jwm,

I wrote that Bob Hovland recapped my amps, not that Hovland caps were used. In fact the value here was that Bob gave me an opinion about what caps would make specific improvements and after some discussion that included Dueland and others, we agreed on Nichicon slenders for the specific application. The result is superb. Bob didn't give any favor to his brand, or his newer SuperCaps, in the discussion.

Phil

Ed,

I've heard the DeHavilland several times in a number of situations. They are well-built; Kara provides great service. I wanted to prefer the Aires to the Audion Black Shadow (the Black Night is a 300B PSET integrated) because Kara makes her amps here in the US, but that's not how it turned out. Nevertheless, the DeHavilland is a more affordable upper-tier option in SQ, and if it's the best amp you've owned you're doing very well. The more remarkable matter is how little coverage these 845 SET options get in the audio press, given that they put out enough single-ended power to put the vice grips to a far greater range of speakers than other SET designs built around less robust power triodes, and really sound beautiful and vivid doing it.

Phil

>>How does the 845 offerings from Cary and Antiquie sound Labs fit into the excellent amps mentioned above?<<

While it is difficult to find an 845 SET amp that performs poorly, I don't put the Cary or ASL in the same category as what's been mentioned. Cary build quality is, of course, beyond reproach. But the house sound is too euphonic, obscuring of detail and simply lacking the incisive revelation of the top tier. There are people who prefer this, however.

ASL has traditionally not been up to the same build quality standards internally, to what you can get from not only the top tier but also other Chinese contenders like Consonance, Shuguang, Meixing. The ASL amps of any tube variation have not impressed me as being notably competent enough to rise above average.

Phil

I'm in Los Angeles. -Phil

The Bel Canto SET i40 was a great amp, as is pretty much everything Bel Canto has fielded in any type of electronics. It was the first modern 845 amp I heard and I nearly bought one, then decided to spend more to go further up the development path in 845 amps, where I settled on Audion. The Bel Canto is unfailingly musical if less resolving and dimensional than a few current, more expensive options. When an 845 intender finds one of the scarce Bel Cantos on the used market, they should lunge for it if it meets their price criteria, expecially if a one-box solution is what you have space for.

Phil