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Thinking of moving from AVR to pre/pro and amp

Disclaimer: I don't know what I don't know. I do not have any major complaints with my current system which I will detail later, but I do know it doesn't sound as close to "live" performances as I'd like. Having read many threads, I believe that moving to separates will help in this area, but I may not have the best reading comprehension. I need your expertise.

My system is used 90/10 TV or DVD/Music, so that's another issue. However, when we play music we tend to really play music. We had the Wadia ipod transport running 12 hours/day over the time between Christmas and New Years, so there are long stretches of listening opportunties. I ran a great number of CDs through my Oppo 95 during this stretch too. Last year I only ran CDs as I didn't have the Wadia (I use Apple Lossless files in the ipod).

There is no option to have a separate music only room or second system no matter how much I'd like to. I have spousal asthetic and ease of use issues to contend with so therefore, whatever I buy must be black and work with my Harmony 1000 touch screen remote.

My upgrade budget is miniscule, <$2k. Used equipment is fine. No HDMI switching is fine as I already am dealing with that now.

My current system is a Rotel RSX 1056 receiver, Oppo 95 running analog 5.1 to the Rotel for audio and video via HDMI to the Sony Bravia XBR IV LCD TV. DirecTV DVR runs digital audio to the Rotel and video via HDMI to the Sony. Oppo 95 plays the CDs through the 5.1 analog cables, though in stereo mode. I use a Wadia transport to run analog into the CD input of the Rotel.

Speakers are B&W LCR6 S2's up front and B&W in ceiling surrounds out back. Two Velodyne SPL10 subs handle the lower frequencies (iirc, I cross over at 100 hz).

I currently can locally get a consignment sale 1-owner Arcam AVP700/P1000 setup for what seems to be a reasonable price ($1350 firm), or I could get a new Emotiva setup with their pre/pro and the 200wpc 5-channel amp for my <$2k budget (albeit not the newest pre/pro with balanced outputs as it isn't out yet and it would stretch the budget too far anyway).

The Arcam P1000 has an advantage in that I can use the extra 2 channels for my patio speakers and sell my ancient SAE 50wpc amp as there seems to be a demand for these on ebay (or there used to be). Not a deal maker, but a plus. Emotiva stuff comes with a warranty and a 30 day trial period, which could be a huge plus. Buying black end plates for the Emotiva is a minus, but not a deal breaker.

I like the warm sound of the B&W/Rotel combo, but it lacks *something* that I can not put words to. I'm hoping moving to more power and a better processor will open this up a bit. For instance, on my current system solo piano music sounds nice, but I just do not *feel* it like I do when someone plays a nice piano live. Same with vocals, they are just not there for me through this system. Norah Jones 'come away with me' is a bit thinner sounding than I'd like is an example that comes to mind.

Damn the new performing arts center and its excellent acoustics! I used to be more ok with the sound that I have. However, after a season seeing a bunch of live shows including performers like Botti and also The Tenors, I find it wanting (sub-note/humble brag: if you saw the Tenors lead with your heart PBS special over the holidays, you saw my wife and I in the crowd shots more than once). I also listen to Rush, Steely Dan, and even (please don't laugh) Jim Brickman. Eclectic tastes.

My room probably does not help at all with 12' ceilings, big open spaces, tile floors with one 12x12 area rug and leather furniture. Additional room treatments outside of possibly an area rug under the dining room table at the far end of the room are unlikely. See wife comment above.

Is it worth dropping money on either the Arcam or Emotiva setup?

Speaker changes are unlikely unless they would match the width of the LCR 6's for the front L&R. Center channel space is limited by the HDTV stand.

The Emotiva would allow me to run HDMI and clean up my cable runs a bit, though I do like the processing the OPPO does (over my last Blu Ray player).

Maybe I should just pay for better seats at the performing arts center?

Thanks for reading all this and I appreciate your help.
admranger

Showing 2 responses by soix

soix
10,015 posts
 
I'd also be concerned about the 100Hz setting on the sub (I think your B&Ws effectively go lower than that no?), and I agree playing with that and speaker/sub placement could help quite a bit. That alone could bring significant improvements if you haven't done so, and it's free. But I don't think it will address the image and tonal density issues you mention.

I doubt upgrading the pre/pro and amp will get you what you're looking for either. It may help improve some things, but for what you're looking for I'd start with the speakers. Either the B&W's character isn't giving you what you're looking for or they just simply can't move enough air to bring the weight of instruments/vocals into the room (I suspect a combination of both). A while back I had the opportunity to directly compare several B&W models (up to the 803s) to some competitors, and it was exactly in the areas of tonal expressiveness and weight in the lower mids that didn't let me feel the expressiveness and dynamic/tonal weight of the music as much -- I think similar to what you're experiencing. I'd highly recommend demoing some other speakers in your home and see if they provide more of what you're looking for, then at least you can be a little more confident in what you do next. Trying other brands, maybe smaller floorstanders if possible, or maybe something larger/further up the B&W line would provide some valuable perspective. Best of luck.
soix
10,015 posts
 
Good to hear you've noticed some improvements in trying different speaker positions and subwoofer settings. Sounds like you've also started to identify the difference between more bass and better bass in the process. If possible, try pulling the front L/R speakers out another two feet or so and place the subs just inside each speaker stand (you obviously don't need to leave them there, but it could prove very instructive). If u can do this u might get a good boost in depth and perceived transparency as room boundaries are more removed from muddying up the sound. If this really helps you know where a lot of your problem lies. If not, I think ur wasting ur time with bi-amping, etc. and it's time to start auditioning some new (or used) speakers to get you what you are looking for. This does not necessarily mean larger or even more expensive speakers, but rather some that provide better imaging and some more oomph in the lower mids and upper bass to provide some of the image density you seem to be lacking now.

Sounds like floorstanders could be problematic if the tweeters would be higher than ear level. Probably better to stick with monitors. Hope this helps.
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