Thinking about getting a R2R DAC

@audio2design 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. 

I'm the first owner of the ML39, vintage 1996, which I had upgraded to a ML390S in ~ 2002. 
As for the ML36, I'm the 2nd owner for all I can tell. 
And yes, both are some 25 years old - with one laser unit replacement for the ML390S, about 1 year ago. 

During mid to end 2000 I had A LOT of Systems auditioning going on (semi-professionally), and this across the board of high-end digital systems, culminating in some way-out Bösendorfer-Lyngdorf system. Actually too many to mention. 

All this did for me, was to set-up an analogue side system to my existing digital one, and repurches LPs I'd gotten rid of during end 1980. 

I mention all this for some perspective, as even listening to far more expensive and more sophisticated set-ups, I could not be convinced (by LISTENING) that this so considered 'new'(er) technology sounded any BETTER - different ok, but not better. 

The more resent listening to some full blown latest B&W802D3 diamond tweeter speakers and Esoteric gear failed to make any further 'upgrade' desire as well. 

All I keep hearing is more 'resolution' and less of any 'realness' - more artifice, for lack of a better word. 

That's when I came across that 'ancient' ML36 (R2R) so since it integrates easily into my existing system I decided to give it a go. 

It sounds the least artificial, though a good LP sounds 'easier' on my ears - still.
A question of more real harmonics/timber I'd say. 
In closing, by my personal experience, I'm this far unconvinced, that high-end digital has made the kind of progress that is generally banded about.
Been surching for close on 25 years and good analogue *still* has the edge for me. 

Enough said for now, 
M. 🇿🇦 

Recorded music isn't real, so something that plays perfectly (a DAC) may not be to your liking. Nothing wrong with some imperfections to simulate a more lively environment. Embrace it.


The music industry is embracing it. Lots of work being done on adding noise, distortion and other artifacts to music to make it more appealing.  I used to prefer studio recordings. Now I am into live recordings warts and all. I will often pick a YouTube live version over the perfect studio one. It's more emotional.

I have an MHDT Orchid Dac and had a Border Patrol Dac on loan which I didn’t feel was as good.  The Orchid is a very nice Dac and LTA is offering a 600.00 Mod for it shortly.  The MHDT Dacs - Border Patrol among others are Chip Based R2R Dacs as opposed to a fully formatted R2R Dac like the MSB - Aqua Dacs- Holo Audio etc... a new one from the brains behind the Metrum Dac’s called the Sonnet Morpheus Dac is Approx 3k and better than the 6K Metrum Psvane.    The Chip based are less expensive.  The new Audial while still chip based is more elaborate but only 2K and supposed to be very nice

 

 The Chip based are less expensive.

Indeed - its possible to get the flavour of R2R at a very low price - try for example Lite DAC-AH, which goes for under $200. Its using the same chip (but 8X as many) as the Border Patrol but the PSU is less elaborate.

I have an MHDT Orchid Dac and had a Border Patrol Dac on loan which I didn’t feel was as good. The Orchid is a very nice Dac and LTA is offering a 600.00 Mod for it shortly. The MHDT Dacs - Border Patrol among others are Chip Based R2R Dacs as opposed to a fully formatted R2R Dac like the MSB - Aqua Dacs- Holo Audio etc... a new one from the brains behind the Metrum Dac’s called the Sonnet Morpheus Dac is Approx 3k and better than the 6K Metrum Psvane. The Chip based are less expensive. The new Audial while still chip based is more elaborate but only 2K and supposed to be very nice

I would agree with the above. When I did my own huge DAC shootout, I kept the MHDT(s) and sold the Border Patrol. MHDT units have better nuance, warmth and dimensionality than the BP, and on top of that, you can roll tubes and subtly tailor the sound on the MHDT. (BP uses its tube in the power supply section only, and it uses a unique tube.)

Metrums (even older ones like the Octave) are truly excellent. As is the Morpheus, which I currently have as well. The Morpheus sounds subtly different than the Pavane/Adagio... I would not say it is clearly better, just a subtly different presentation with a clear family resemblance.

The Chip based are less expensive.

Indeed - its possible to get the flavour of R2R at a very low price

Yes Yes Yes!!!
Just look for the higher end used players that use the PCM1702 or even better the PCM1704 Burr Brown dac chips here,
http://vasiltech.narod.ru/CD-Player-DAC-Transport.htm
and even better if they are used with together with DF1704 or better PMD100 and better again PMD200 filter chips

Cheers George

I bought a LAB 12 DAC1 SE a few years ago and I'm very pleased with it. And you also have the option to tune it a little by replaceing the 6922 tube. If the limitation to 24bit/96kHz is not a problem you could give it a try.
I also lack that "something" I get from LP:s and this DAC does a good job closeing in the gap between CD:s and LP:s. At least in my humble system and to my ears.

I recently purchased a Jolida FX2 tube DAC (now Black Ice) and took it to compare with a friend's Qutest.  We found the Jolida to be a more engaging and relaxing listen.  The Qutest certainly was the more open and "airy" of the two DACs, but it's also more analytical at the same time. In fairness, I also don't hear much difference between DACs in general on my system.