Thiel Owners

Hi Everybody,

About a year ago, I posted about a problem I was having with my Thiel CS 3.0s that had not been used for many years. The soundstage was off and it seemed to follow the speaker. It wasn’t obvious whether it was the crossover, midrange, or tweeter. Well, after a lot of help from Rob Gillum at Coherent Source Service, I was able to determine that it was the tweeter. I also verified that the 36-year-old crossover was in great shape and all of the caps were in spec.

The rest of my system now consists of a PS Audio PWD II w/bridge, Dodd battery tube preamp, and a Pass X150.8 amp, which replaced a pair of ASL Hurricane tube monoblocks. My acoustically treated room is small (11’ x 16’ x 10’) so I’m not using the bass equalizer. I also use REW room correction software. After installing the tweeter that Rob sent, I think that my CS3.0s sound amazing, especially considering the fact that they are 36 years old and 5 of the 6 drivers and the crossovers are original.

I also wanted to thank whoever brought up the OCOS speaker cables earlier. I have a 30-year-old triple run pair that I wouldn’t have considered using had it not been for this thread. I installed them and they are definitely better than the off-brand cables I was using. I guess that I’ll have to throw in the Magnan Vi interconnects next 😊

I was trying to find a pair of 2.4s but the 3.0s sound good enough for me for now.

Thanks again everybody,

utrak

Hi Everybody,

I'm a longtime Thiel owner and I've got some CS3 questions that I would really appreciate some help with.  Last week, I couldn’t stand it any longer so I got my Thiel CS3s out of storage and set them up for the first time in my small (11’ x 16’ x 10’) acoustically treated listening room. These speakers are over 25 years old, have been well cared for, but haven’t been used for the last 10 years. I’ve been using Kef LS50s in this room for the last 2 years. My electronics consist of a PS Audio PWD II DAC with bridge, Dodd battery powered tube preamp, and Dodd 120 tube mono blocks or ASL DT200 tube mono blocks. My music server is running JRiver Media Center software.

I’ve owned Thiel CS3s, CS3.5s, and CS3.6s. I sold the CS3.5s many years ago to upgrade to the 3.6s. I recently begrudgingly sold the 3.6s because I felt that my new room was simply too small to accommodate them. My old music room was 18’ x 14’ x 8’.

Back to the CS3s. Using the Dodd 120 monos, the CS3s sound really good in my small acoustically treated room. The first difference that jumped out at me was the bass, which is fuller, deeper, and more articulate than the LS50s, without using the CS3 bass equalizer. Even though I was happy with the bass I was getting with the LS50s, the CS3s outperform them handily. However, this post wasn’t meant to be a comparison of the LS50s and the CS3s. The reason for this post has to do with a potential CS3 driver problem.

I noticed that on the sound stage, Norah Jones’ voice on the “Don’t know why” track from the “Come Away with Me” CD was shifted to the left of center about 10 degrees. I swapped the speakers and the problem follows the speaker. I also noticed that the difference in output levels increases as the musical content increases in frequency. There’s a bigger shift on the “Game of Clocks” track from the “Smoke and Mirrors Vanish” CD. BTW, this track sounds great on the Thiels.

My questions to the Thiel faithful are as follows:

1. Would replacing the 25+ plus year old capacitors in the crossovers help?

2. Could this be tweeter failure due to age? I already know you can’t find CS3 replacement tweeters.

3. Any other ideas? I would love to make these my main speakers if I could solve this problem.  Otherwise, I might look for another used pair because I can't believe how good these sound in my small room.

Thanks everybody.

Utrak

Thanks jafant. 

 This 30 year old Thiel CS3.0 vs LS50 is an experiment for me to try to understand how good the older Thiels are compared to newer highly regarded designs like the LS50. I was also trying to determine what I could get away with in my smaller room with respect to bass. I don’t want to jump the gun because I haven’t spent enough time comparing the two but let’s just say that I’m shocked by how good the 30 year old Thiels are. There’s a good chance I’ll look for another set of used Thiels if I can’t fix the CS3.0s. BTW, the CS3s sound really good with tubes and so did the 3.6s.

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I really do appreciate it. I think that I’ll attempt to further isolate the problem by swapping the tweeters first and then the midrange drivers if the problem doesn’t move with the tweeters. I’ll share my results with everybody. Tomthiel’s response is encouraging. I actually think that I stumbled onto something rather unique with respect to the CS3s and my small acoustically treated room. I was actually able to tame the bass by not using the bass equalizer and adding another set of 4’ x 2’ absorption panels (1 on each side of the room) between the corner trap and the first sidewall absorption panel. After doing that, I was blown away. It’s sad but at least I got to re-realize how special Thiel speakers really are. To make matters worse, newer Thiel models don’t have a bass equalizer that I can remove and the impedance curve drops to 3 ohms on some of them, which might present additional problems for my tube amps. I believe that the CS3s are 88dB efficient and the impedance only drops to 4 ohms. Good luck tomthiel. I know that Thiel owners of the world are rooting for you.

Jon - Thanks for the pics.  Your room reminds me of my room.  I'll try to take some pictures of my room and post them.  I'm envious of your 3.6s.  They look great.  I had a pair for many years that I bought new and recently sold them due to lack of space.  

tomthiel - Thank you very much! I'm very excited to hear that you added the CS3 into the 3.5 upgrade project.  And, thank you for sharing the Thiel Audio history with us.