The truth about interconnects - can you handle it?

Agree with Gs5556. I handled it a long time ago. What you hear is what you get. I suppose the next website link will be about the "fact" that we can't see the difference between anything either. Afer all atoms are atoms. We're just imagining the whole thing.

As I have posted numerous times before, I have done literally hundreds of blind tests, and had people that worked with me trying to do their best to trip me up. That said, if there was any change in equipment that did make a difference, I identified it well over 90% of the time. I have no fear of blind testing, and I don't think any other audiophiles have any fear of it either. I do think the ABX'ers are afraid that we will try it and realize that they were more full of it than a Christmas turkey. If you really believe that you can't hear these things, then get another hobby. Audio is for people who can hear. Others can play with trains or take up gardening.

I'll mention another thing. When we were doing this testing, it wasn't just with cables. Components and other things were switched as well, and the task for the blindfolded individual was to not only determine if something had changed, but to name the brand and model of the equipment that had been put into the system. And sometimes more than one thing was changed at the same time. Other times nothing was changed in an attempt to fool the blindfolded person. Both myself and my fellow salesmen at the audio store could name the brands and models that were substituted into the reference system with repeatable accuracy. Ok, so it can be done. My point is that all this hubbub about blind testing is just so much garbage. Nobody needs a blind test. You can do it standing on your head. If you can hear the difference, then you can hear the difference. It's that simple. If the difference is worth the money to you, then buy it. If not, then don't. But to claim that it is all "psychological" is just plain crap.

Pbb and Danvetc, I can only report my experiences. As probably both of you know from my many previous posts, I have no desire to spend more than necessary for good sound. I have always tried to point out good value type of products. I don't own the most expensive cables. For a long time I used my own DIY. But I cannot deny that they sound different. They just do. I can't say the grass is orange just because I would like it to be so. Facts are facts and that's all there is to it.

Regarding my blind testing percentage, it was not just me, but also my fellow salesmen at the audio store I used to work in. Perhaps it was the familiarity level that we had with all the equipment that we demoed. But it was no problem to identify any of the pieces substituted into the reference system, and do it rather quickly and accurately. We knew the sound of the gear, and it showed, blindfolded or otherwise. Now, when you can walk into a room blindfolded and know that there's a Threshold 400 amp playing, when nobody told you what gear was hooked up, then that is no accident. Walk back out of the room, come back in blindfolded and know that a Naim 250 was now playing, and be right. I'm not talking about simply hearing that there is a difference. I'm talking about being able to identify the differences clearly enough to name the amp, blindfolded. And all the guys in the shop could do it with repeatable accuracy, so I don't go with this "golden ear" idea at all. In fact, I wonder why so many people doubt their hearing so much.

But anyway, what I want to point out is that there are clear audible differences between many products of all types, and that normal people are quite capable of hearing these differences on a decent resolution audio system. No blindfold required. Some things may not have much difference or even any hearable difference, but most do. If this was not the case, then people wouldn't be buying different things. There is no way in the world that anyone is going to convince me that the entire audiophile population is "hypnotized" into buying all different kinds of gear, claiming it sounds different when it didn't. That premise is totally ludicrous. I cannot even believe that anyone would propound such an idea.

Again, I think it comes down to a financial rationalization being made when people don't want to spend huge sums of money on cables or other audio gear. I don't have the most expensive pieces anywhere in my system. I can't afford them. But I don't run around telling everybody that I can't hear the difference between my system and a $200k system. I just have made a financial decision on the items I have and am satisfied that I have gotten the best for my money. Maybe my system may sound better to me than some other more costly systems, and maybe not. But they sound different.

I do abhor buying products simply on the premise that "if they cost more they must be better". I don't subscribe to that theory at all. I think that is just as bad as saying that there is no difference in sound, because they are both fallacious. In my mind, the products that come closest to sounding the best, at the most reasonable prices, are the good value products and that is where I try to spend my money. I use my ears, and sometimes, yes, I even will use certain technical specifications in my decision making.

In the end it is the user that has to live with his decisions. If they are happy with the sound, then that is all that matters, regardless of the methods they used to come to the final selection. After all, this is audio, and the sound is what matters.

As long as any of you simply "look at" and "measure" these cables, and do not listen to them, there is no real determining being done. That would be like me "listening" to the Mona Lisa, and determining that all paintings were alike. Or "watching" a symphony being played, and concluding that Beethoven looks just like Tchaikowsky when being played. You technical people need to let go of your attachment to measuring instruments and listen to equipment. Just like 20 years ago, when this argument was "put to bed", we have forgotten that, and are now arguing the same old stuff all over again. Are you going to tell me that a Technics department store receiver sounds better than a Pass Aleph? Why not? It measures as good or better. Wires don't matter, capacitors don't matter, everything is the same, they both amplify and have low distortion specs. Is this your position? All I can say is that for people who claim to be "analytical and scientific", your analysis and science are sadly lacking. Are you going to try to say the sun is not shining, because you are using a light meter under a shade tree, and forgot to look where you were standing? You have to actually listen to the product to determine how it sounds. No measurement in the world is going to tell you this. All science begins with an "empirical analysis". This means "an observed phenomenon". Then tests are done to determine what is happening. Using tests that don't relate to the phenomenon cannot be used to "prove" that the phenomenon isn't happening. You are using science in reverse, and cannot even see that is what you are doing. That is not scientific. The premise that "everything has to fit into my little R-L-C bag" is just bad science. Claiming "psychological" effects to explain what you don't understand, or can't measure, is a convenient escape from the real conclusion that you can't measure what is being heard, so you lean on that in order to cover the shortcomings of your testing methods. The real truth here is that the "scientific" argument is the trailing edge which is well behind the cutting edge of listening testing.

Tazuser, I was the one who did many tests on equipment blindfolded, and had a good success record. I simply listen to the equipment, and determine if I can hear something different. Sometimes I can, and sometimes I cannot. Sometimes I may hear bloated or weak bass, or too hot or rolled off highs, or midrange anomalies, or detail masking, or soundstaging differences, etc, etc. Or sometimes I just hear more natural sounding music. I can't say what I will hear until I hear it.

Regarding the methodology, we used a reference audio system in a high end showroom, with only one set of speakers in the room at one time. Equipment, or cables, were replaced at random while the subject was out of the room. Then the subject is brought is blindfolded, and asked to identify what piece of equipment was changed, and to name it. We all did rather well at this, but we were very familiar with the sound of the various equipment in question. We did this for fun, to pass the time on slow days at the audio store. It was more of a game, than a "science experiment".

I don't really find alot of difference in price versus performance, as a general rule. It is more just differences in performance, but they don't seem to relate much to the price, until it gets pretty high. Above $600 for an interconnect pair, was a noticeable threshold for performance/price relationships. I had a DIY pair of interconnects that beat anything up to $600 in my system, but then I have heard several over-$600 sets since then that did better than my DIY. I don't say that the most costly is always the best. But it may be so in some cases.

I'm all for science, and have a strong science background. If differences are heard, then it's up to the scientists to determine what the reasons are. I don't really care what makes it so, as long as it sounds best in my system. What I do dislike, is when statements such as "wire is wire" are made, in an attempt to "scientifically" persuade people that they really don't hear any difference, when it is quite likely that they do hear them. If the science people want to discover all the inner secrets of why wires sound like they do, that's fine with me. Especially if it results in lower cost, good sounding wires. However, I part company with those who say that they cannot sound different because they are all measuring alike. Clearly, if they sound different, then other measurements must be in order to discover what is different. If these measurements are not existing, then they must be discovered to satisfy that curiosity. Personally, I find it alot easier to just listen and decide.

Marakanetz, no hard feelings. Everything's cool.