The superawesome sub from ADIRE : BRAHMA

Sean i see what your saying...but you will have to admit it is a very well made driver...and would be a tough competitor among other long throw subs...but i think the long throw type sub may not be want i'm looking for...i want a soft yet tight sub sound...a sound that is natural and not overwhelimg to the small monitors or the room...refer to the 2 recent thread on sub-intergration..are subs really necessary?..could a upgraded amp with slam provide better lows from your monitor woofers?...do amp power subs produce too much presence in the room?..especially if the room does not have good acoustics..subs may not be for everyone..take a look at the FOCAL WX series and let me know ...i'm going to hear the REL STORM later tonight...i'll keep you posted...Thanks again for your interesting and very helpful comments...Tweekerman

Which model Brahma are you looking at in terms of size ? Is it the 10", 12", 15", 18" ??? If you look at their recommendations, none of the smaller drivers is recommended for sealed use. As to being "long throw without losing definition", whose words are those ? If this was a well respected individual that has a LOT of experience with different low frequency drivers, i might buy it. If you're believing what the manufacturer of a product tells you, i've got some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you..... Sean
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Sean...has one of the longest throws on the market without losing definition...sealed not ported...small cabinet will do fine...400+ amp will do it...Sean take a look at the FOCALWX13 and give me some imput on this design as well thanks...the choice may come down to these 2 very handsome subs...anybody auditioned either one?

SEAN thanks for your post...i'm looking into the problems that you pointed to.

That line of drivers is not really optimized for any specific type of tuning i.e. sealed, ported, passive radiator, TL, etc... As such, it works equally well ( or is it equally poorly ??? ) in several different alignments. It was kind of designed as a "universal" driver and work in various alignments. Only problem is that it will do all of them kind of "half-heartedly" if you know what i mean.

Drivers with a very long throw tend to be very poor at doing any type of pitch and lack definition. Part of this is typically due to the increased amount of travel that the suspension requires and the associated lack of damping / increased ringing. The other part has to do with amplifier being able to control the driver and damping factor.

Woofers with large motor structures generate a measurable amount of reflected ( stray ) voltage back into the amp. A woofer with a BIG motor and a REAL long throw is capable of producing even more stray voltage that the amp has to deal with. The fact that these drivers are very low impedance somewhat compound these problems in multiple ways.

Since it is such a low impedance, the driver will be pulling quite hard on the amp as it is. This typically lowers sound quality on most amps, makes them run hotter and reduces the damping factor of the amp. You now have an amp that is working as hard as it can, running hotter than normal, has reduced damping factor and is now being hit with a much higher level of reflected emf ( electromotive force or "voltage" ) than it would normally see.

In order to overcome all of the above factors and keep control over the driver, it would need to be capable of extremely high power levels. I am talking both current and voltage here, not just one or the other. That is why i said a KW ( kilowatt i.e. 1000 watts ) for each voice coil.

Due to the problem with ringing, this type of driver typically works best crossed over VERY, VERY low. This keeps any of the mid or upper bass out of its operating range and minimizes the harmonic content that it will generate. If you don't do this, you'll typically experience muddy bass even though it is above the range that this driver is handling.

I will admit that this driver appears to have a pretty tight suspension with good impact, so ringing might not be quite as bad as i suspect. However, it is kind of a high Q design for porting and that is the part of the market that they seem to be pushing it for. High Q designs in ported enclosures typically ring like crazy, which is not a good thing. On the other hand, it does not appear that the driver would go as low as expected using "tight" sealed woofer alignments, making it kind of a "half breed" that isn't really at home anywhere. Something that comes to mind is a big brute that will never be capable of fully harnessing and optimizing the power that it is capable of. Sean
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Sean good point...the driver really needs a high quality amp...but the REL has a built in amp and sells for about the same as this driver + cabinet + amp...as for "good sound"...the REL is reviewed as being "best" and my friend says his REL sounds a bit "wooly"...so i'm sure this seemingly very well designed ADIRE does exactly what it is supposed to do..and at least as good as the REL...we'll have to wait on a review...could you expand a little on the SPL concept and HT woofer

No mention of VC diameter or materials used. Since the "Dumax results" locked up my computer, i didn't get a chance to check out the actual test results.

Keep in mind that it will be very tough to get "good" sound out of a driver like this. If you are strictly looking for an "air mover" in terms of SPL or "HT woofer", this will probably work fine. Besides the fact that the impedance is so low and you'll have no damping factor to speak of, the woofer will generate such a large amount of reflected emf that you would NEED a kilowatt to control each voice coil. Sean
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Tweekerman
I also was told by someone about Adire and purchased their Dharman sub for my home theater. What a difference from an older (POS)Infinity 150w sub. It is very musical and goes very well with my Joseph Rm7 signature II's for two channel. I don't know how it compares to any other subs as I have not bothered to try to compare. Seems it would be impossible unless I did a side by side at home.

i take it no one is into subs...how else are you going to get a highfidelity sound without a superior sub?..i was the first to mention this ADIRE line of subs!...and i've only been in this hifi hobby 3 months!