The Snob Appeal Premium


I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

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Showing 4 responses by yesiam_a_pirate

Highway 61; I never really thought of it like that. In my mind the gear I fell in love with in 1978 was ARC and Magnapan. I never stopped loving it, and I'm happy to own it.  I'd say compared to Daniel Hertz or the like, ARC is upper end mid-fi though. Again just one old man's opinion. 

Wturkey;

I'm pretty sure these are 100% maple syrup and frostbite made- but who really knows these days?  There is so much shell-game switch-a-roo now... largely because it's really hard to make a North American product economically. There is a video of the Axiom plant in Canada and it looks like the product is made there. I'd guess that the Bryston product is North American but who really knows anymore...

The fit and finish is really good, and feels heavy and local. The packing is definitely North American. The Asians have some terrible cardboard. These came in some stout big arse boxes with hard foam blocking. They didn't feel Asian FWIW. 

I learned that the dealers are forced to buy the product outright- much to the frustration of the dealer I dealt with. Gun-to-head guess is that the cost to the dealer is about $4K. Speakers uniformly have massive mark up. 

My listening conclusions: The sound is muscle car big block in your face. Not delicate like the Vienna's. The Brystons are boring at low volume. Flat and dull. But with some volume (dinner party conversation volume after some wine and laughs) they wake up. Pushed to loud talking level they really start to sing. At higher volume levels they are just plain rowdy and fun. Me- I like quiet, but when nobody's home it's party time! They are a joy to listen to when they are loud. Subtle as a jack hammer and just as punchy. 

jji666 gets it. This system was designed and acquired in pieces on the cheap as a family room system at the beach house. It's not a listening room system. duh. 

It's amazing how reflexively people jump to "max offended status" rather than carefully considering the post. One snob even took to insulting my will and capacity to have an absolute sound system. Gee whiz what do you do with such snobby condescending people? Misery loves company I guess....

Other folks were kind  and congratulatory. Many thanks! Men of good will toast other's successes. I've learned that the wealthiest people (like the Ferrari club guys at the Cavallino in Palm Beach for example) are the easiest going and warmest. Broke jokers see rich guys acting snobby on TV and think that's the way rich people act. So they are really faux rich guy posing. Or they have puny units and E.D.. With some exceptions (jerks come in all walks of life) the richer the man the warmer he is. 

Good Hifi gear costs money. Lots of it. I'd guess most audiophiles are affluent and have other expensive hobbies too. I for one have really enjoyed my 44 year Hifi journey. Good years and bad years. Divorces and remarriages. Good kids and bad ones. Audiogon is a fun place to share stories and practice writing skills. It's also really educational. Cheers to you gents! 

This has been a fun thread. Lots of valuable ideas too! The guys that took the time to consider the OP and the guys who spent some time to discuss DIY speakers- cheers to you!   I enjoy seeing those of a certain *ahem* persuasion attack, disparage, ridicule anything they have not endorsed is a pleasure too.....one fool suggested if you don't agree with his perspective get a boat or a Harley. Funny that- as if the guys here only had one hobby and only one place to spend their time and money.  Mom's basement gets cold in the winter for the hater guys LOL! 

On DIY speakers:  I'm amazed at the quality of drivers that you can buy for not much money compared to the cost of a "brand affirmed" product. GR, Graveson stuff makes me want to get in the shop this January and get some low cost high results education on subs. Even if you shrew up the kit you are more educated and better off. 

I'm also amazed at those who are consumed with class envy and system envy. These are miserable humans who cannot enjoy the subtle, wonderful, exciting parts of life. Sad, really. Life's a beyatch and then you die- and off to your reward- Forever. Sucks to be you indeed. 

Thanking you all again for the fun, education and info!  and to the haters here: Kiss my foot :)