The Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS/B stylus VS The Soundsmith Hyperion MR and Lyra Atlas SL


On a sentimental lark I purchased two Shure V15 V bodies and one SAS/B stylus. I was always a realistic about the Shure's potential. Was comparing it to $10k+ cartridges fair? Absolutely. The Shure was considered to be one of the best cartridges of the day. Why not compare it to a few of the best we have today?

The Shure has always been considered to be unfailingly neutral. Famous recording engineers have said it sounded most like their master tapes. I do not have an original stylus for the Shure and I can not say that the Jico performs as well. 

My initial evaluation was quite positive. It worked wonderfully well in the Shroder CB. With a light mounting plate and small counterbalance weight a resonance point of 8 hz was easily achieved. There was nothing blatantly wrong with the sound. There was no mistracking at 1.2 grams. You can see pictures of all these styluses here https://imgur.com/gallery/stylus-photomicrographs-51n5VF9 

After listening to a bunch of favorite evaluation records my impression was that the Shure sounded on the thin side, lacking in the utmost dynamic impact with just a touch of harshness. I listened to the Shure only for four weeks as my MC phono stage had taken a trip back to the factory. I was using the MM phono stage in the DEQX Pre 8, designed by Dynavector. I have used it with a step up transformer and know it performs well. I got my MC stage back last week and cycled through my other cartridges then back to the Shure. The Soundsmith and Lyra are much more alike than different. I could easily not be able to tell which one was playing. The Lyra is the slightest touch darker. The Shure is a great value....for $480 in today's money, but it can not hold a candle to the other cartridges. They are more dynamic, smoother and quieter. They are more like my high resolution digital files. Whether or not they are $10,000 better is a personal issue. Did the DEQX's phono stage contribute to this lopsided result? Only to a small degree if any. I do have two Shure bodies and they both sound exactly the same. The Shure may have done better with a stock stylus. I do not think the age of the bodies contributes to this result at all. 

128x128mijostyn

To add a bit to the ESL plus OTL paradigm, Sound Lab, by using two audio step up transformers, one for bass and one for treble, and by therefore using a passive crossover between them, are somewhat unique in spoiling the natural match of ESLs to OTLs, because of that midrange impedance dip thus incurred. Scuttlebutt was and is that SL use solid state amplifiers (Parasound JC1s, it is said) to voice the speaker and so are ignoring the problem, essentially, for tube aficionados.  Historically, ESLs like Quad, KLH9, Jantszen, Acoustat, original CLS by M-L were high impedance speakers well suited to OTLs.  Then M-L revised the CLS (which came to be known as CLS II) such that impedance was lowered considerably, to suit the rising popularity of SS amplifiers, I guess.  I traded in my beloved CLSs for the CLS II on account of the favorable publicity but without knowing what M-L had done to the impedance curve; the CLS II sounded awful with my Futterman OTLs. Sound Lab "borrowed" the two transformer idea from Acoustat, actually, in the 90s.  So I don't know when Acoustat were driven via only one step-up transformer as you mention.  The earliest Acoustat I recall was the Acoustat X, a giant panel that was direct driven by an on-board amplifier, which I heard once but cannot remember aurally.  That was in the mid to late 70s.

richardbrand, Though no one ever told me this, it was my assumption that the Quad 57 is curved in the vertical plane, because it was designed to sit only a few inches off the floor.  So they devised a stand that leans the speaker back a bit to tilt it upward, and to further enhance radiation to the height of a listener's ears, they curved the panel.  I imagine that all this was to accommodate the smaller listening spaces of typical UK houses and apartments.  They never dreamed of stacked pairs as part of the original design intent.  I would guess that the last thing anyone thought about was how the vertical curve would focus the rear radiation. 

Also, now I think of it, you are probably correct.  The 1963 speaker was called "ESL63".  It falls trippingly from the tongue.  The ESL63 is the only Quad speaker I ever owned. I didn't love it as much as some others. I just don't recall the 1957 speaker being referred to as ESL57, but if you say so....

@richardbrand   : " old enough to have a pulp/paper cone but if the servo mechanism is good enough, who cares?   "

 

It cares any one that knows in deep about best bass range build material subs, not all material gives us the same bass quality level.

 

Btw, my Velodyne's came with the servos too as yours.

 

R.

On ESLs and OTLs: Rich Brkich is rehabbing a pair of Joule Electra VZN 160s for me to use with my Stax F81s. Will report back on this thread in a few weeks if it's still so far off topic.

@lewm Come on Lew. You know you are preaching to the choir. I use essentially one 1:100 transformer to drive my Sound Labs just as I did the 2+2s and they sound exactly the same except for dispersion and output capability. The midbass of the Sound Labs might be superior. Forget about the stock back plate, everything except the bias supply has been ripped out. Nothing in the signal path is original. I should also note that the frequency response curve of the modified Sound Labs is not correct and has to be equalized to get the desired curve which is not flat. You are doing something different by keeping the bass transformer hooked up.