The Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS/B stylus VS The Soundsmith Hyperion MR and Lyra Atlas SL

Dear @bdp24   : As you low coloration is too apririty for  me but even live MUSIC has natural colorations and it can't avoid it.

But that was not my point why I posted about " horns " ( and there are horns and horns not all are Klpish or the like ) but something that is near to the Live MUSIC:

Immediacy and things are that horn has it as no other type of speaker driver. Colorations culprit ( if any ) comes by manufacturer design. Audio is not perfect but you needs to have the Acapella experience.

 

R.

Dear @mijostyn :I listened the Triolon Excalibur in a home system in Houston and as you posted the Acapella are something to listen it yes very expensive:

 

Size (H/W/D)	230/150/130 cm
efficiency	100 dB/1W/1m
resilience	100 W; pulse 1000 W (10 ms)
Required amplifier power	from 15 W sine/4 Ohm
Weight	650 to 750 kg per system
room size	from 40 m²
Price	from 500,000 Euros   R.

Dear @mijostyn  : I really like ELS and especially Sounlabs and Eminet Technologies even that the faster transients where MUSIC comes developed is through horns, yes as everything has trde-offs at both frequency extremes but in its specific frequency range ( depend of manufaturers and models. ) ESL just can't beats it and yes : as always seated at near field position..

Why I don't own horns yet? because its agresivity that many times surpass the liove MUSIC natural agresivity.

Acapella top of the line is a ery good blend of different speaker drivers and really good and expensive ones.

 

R.

@richardbrand   : " old enough to have a pulp/paper cone but if the servo mechanism is good enough, who cares?   "

 

It cares any one that knows in deep about best bass range build material subs, not all material gives us the same bass quality level.

 

Btw, my Velodyne's came with the servos too as yours.

 

R.

@mijostyn   : Velodyne comes with the high-pass filter as the one that use richard.

 

R.

Dear @richardbrand   : " My Velodyne 18" subwoofer is ..."

 

Wel, you can be sure that 2 subs always is better than only one listening at the prefered seat position.

 

I own Velodyne too but with better wooferbuild material: pulp/paper.

 

R.

 

Dear @mijostyn  :  " So, it is fun to hear what we were listening to back then. Now, What cartridge is mounted in your turntable at this moment?? "

 

Well I don't do it just for fun but for the MUSIC overall presentation.

 

Several vintage cartridges are a true challenge and even can outperforms to some top today MC/MM/MI cartridges and you can't know till you listen with your today system. Shure is not a reference for what I'm talking about, far away from there.

 

I'm listening: Audio Technica AT-ML160-LC/OCC (MM), Audio Tecnica AT 36 ( VLOMC ) and the surprising LOMC Empire MC5.

 

Both AT are " something "and the AT 36 has new cantilever and stylus due that my original one had not by a mistake from me but its cartridge motor is just a beauty..

Everthing I do in my system is in favor of MUSIC enjoyment always. 

 

@lewm  "  what is striking in comparison to any home audio system is the dynamics of live music, as opposed to pinpoint imaging, which was the subject of that discussion.  "

 

Absolutely rigth an that dynamics is developed thank's to the very fast transient response of instruments in a live MUSIC.

 

R.

Dear @harpo75  : " Sold the Thorens and bought a Micro Seiki BL-99V turntable, put a Technics EPA-100mk2 tonearm on it and I alternate between my Technics EPC-205 mkIV Jico SAS and a EPC-100mk3 original stylus.  I also have a Pickering XSV-4000 w/original stylus that sounds wonderful and full and images better then the Shure did.  Both Technics have more detail and air, image, speed.  "

 

You arejust rigthand that's because the Shure V15 V MR was and is part of the vintage MM cartridge mediocrity/average not a very good performer where exist several MM and MI vintage cartridges way superior. Shure is an inferior cartridge.

 

R.

Dear @stringreen : I own almost all Pritchard designs and for me the bset sounding are the ADC 26/27 and Sonus Dimension 5. Both very competitive down there with the top performers.

 

R.

Dear @lewm : These subs  can help you:

 

 SB16-Ultra Subwoofer | SVS (svsound.com)

 

and I think that you can build the high pass at the input of your amps with one capacitor but I don't know your amps input circuit.

 

R.

"  could 'ring' at audio frequencies. "  certainly in your system is happening and not a possibility with.

 

" mechanical damping? " good for you because the MM vintage cartridges are very well mechanical damped and additional the Shure has its dynamic stabilizer.

To  each his  own and good to know that you(we) are way satisfied at 22k. That is all about.

 

If you ask to your self yes I experienced around 20k-30k because one gentleman in the long MM thread suggested but all gentlemans returned to 100 after experiencedwith different cartridges in a lot of different systems ( one for each one of them.) but as I said: to each his own and I'm way satisfied with. Yes could be I'm just " deaf " as many others.

 

First the numbers then the ears.

 

R.

 

Good for you. Stay calm. Bye ¡ ¡ 

R.

Dear @dover : look what is garbage is what you posted and that you did not read slowly through my posts where I said: " those numbers shows electrically FR.." and " Electrically this is the FR response loaded at 22K... "

 

In those reviews what you look is not the electrical real FR of the cartridges but what through a not even D2D recordings by JVC and CBS showed and where the reviewers used different tonearm/TTs, yes all those has all de " defects " off those old time about the LP recording tests and what you listened with out the cartridge Dynamic Stabilizer is not what the reviewers did it.

 

Other thing that you did not read it is:

" Please bear in mind that the calculator is based on an electrical model only. It cannot make any any assumptions about about what is happening on a mechanical level. Resonances of the cantilever, which can contribute to the frequency response and sound of a phono cartridge, and other mechanical effects are not taken into account. "

What @lewm , me an hundred of audiophiles are enjoying today with all those vintage cartridges are doing ( loading at 100khz. ) through almost today top tonearms/TT or top vintage ones along many oher system improved characteristics over the reviewers or even/maybe you in those old times.

Those gentlemans and lew/me know exactly what we are talking today and we are doing in each one home system, you can be sure that your " ears " are not way better than us and you can be sure too that my thousands of first hand experiences about could even you experiences.

 

" 100k will generate a large high frequency peak.... ", electrically not really because it shows around 1+db at around 10khz, 2+db at 18khz and only 3+db at 20khz going down fast at 25khz and you know what? that " peak " contributes to to in some ways compensate for the filter used at 50khz ( around it. Neumann pole. ) during the recording LP sessions to help/impede the cutting head goes burn-in.

And those 2+/3+db are numbers that goes perfectly with what ( very long time ago research with Ortofon Golden Ears panel found out. ) Ortofon did and does where the MC Diamond or Verissimo has a 2+db down there and this deviation is make on purpose by Ortofon. Period.

 

R.

 

@mijostyn : The Stanton of those times shows 1,800 ohm Audio Technica around 2,500 ohms, latest Stanton 981 around 900 ohms, Shure 2,500 or 3,000 seems ok.

 

Now those links showed electrically FR response numbers and what you like is a different matters. It’s almost absolutely weird/rare that you bougth the resistors with out check " numbers " that usually you are in love with numbers.

@lewm you are just rigth and those hat goes lower than 47k ( at least 47k. ) have problems with ears and/or system or both , somewhere down there.

I tested 150+ cartridges ( including 3-4  Shure's and at least one with Jico SAS stylus. ) and all one like 100k with low capacitance, no matters what and for me is good that some ONE as you confirm it by first hand experiences.

 

R.

@mijostyn  : Electrically this's the FR response loaded at 22k:

 

https://alignmentprotractor.com/cartridge-loading-calculator?ind=500&indunit=1000&cartres=2500&cap=250&preres=22&preresunit=1000&grid=stat&range=sonic&scale=log&loadsub=loadsub#graph

 

the problem with 22khz that no matters if you load it with 800pf the HF down at around 10khz.

 

Loading it at 47k and 250pf improves but not  what we could want:

https://alignmentprotractor.com/cartridge-loading-calculator?ind=500&indunit=1000&cartres=2500&cap=250&preres=47&preresunit=1000&grid=stat&range=sonic&scale=log&loadsub=loadsub#graph

 

Now if you loaded at 75khz + 100pf then improves a lot:

 

https://alignmentprotractor.com/cartridge-loading-calculator?ind=500&indunit=1000&cartres=2500&cap=100&preres=75&preresunit=1000&grid=stat&range=sonic&scale=log&loadsub=loadsub#graph

 

I usually load the MM/MI types at 100k and if you or other gentlemans read the long MM thread ( where I advised touse that kind of load) several audiophiles said are/were satisfied and better than 47k.

 

The cartridge DC resistance is a number I read somewhere ,maybe can be a little higher and if it's that way the better response.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean " then back to the Shure " .

@mijostyn :  of course you have to try about and it's interesting to read this review:

 

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/shure/v15.shtml

V-MR test report ( 1984 ).

Btw, are you hearing a kind of harshness in your cartridge today set up?

 

R.