The Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS/B stylus VS The Soundsmith Hyperion MR and Lyra Atlas SL
On a sentimental lark I purchased two Shure V15 V bodies and one SAS/B stylus. I was always a realistic about the Shure's potential. Was comparing it to $10k+ cartridges fair? Absolutely. The Shure was considered to be one of the best cartridges of the day. Why not compare it to a few of the best we have today?
The Shure has always been considered to be unfailingly neutral. Famous recording engineers have said it sounded most like their master tapes. I do not have an original stylus for the Shure and I can not say that the Jico performs as well.
My initial evaluation was quite positive. It worked wonderfully well in the Shroder CB. With a light mounting plate and small counterbalance weight a resonance point of 8 hz was easily achieved. There was nothing blatantly wrong with the sound. There was no mistracking at 1.2 grams. You can see pictures of all these styluses here https://imgur.com/gallery/stylus-photomicrographs-51n5VF9
After listening to a bunch of favorite evaluation records my impression was that the Shure sounded on the thin side, lacking in the utmost dynamic impact with just a touch of harshness. I listened to the Shure only for four weeks as my MC phono stage had taken a trip back to the factory. I was using the MM phono stage in the DEQX Pre 8, designed by Dynavector. I have used it with a step up transformer and know it performs well. I got my MC stage back last week and cycled through my other cartridges then back to the Shure. The Soundsmith and Lyra are much more alike than different. I could easily not be able to tell which one was playing. The Lyra is the slightest touch darker. The Shure is a great value....for $480 in today's money, but it can not hold a candle to the other cartridges. They are more dynamic, smoother and quieter. They are more like my high resolution digital files. Whether or not they are $10,000 better is a personal issue. Did the DEQX's phono stage contribute to this lopsided result? Only to a small degree if any. I do have two Shure bodies and they both sound exactly the same. The Shure may have done better with a stock stylus. I do not think the age of the bodies contributes to this result at all.
@mijostyn If you use that formula using 1,000,000 instead of 1, you input R in Ohms, C in uF and the frequency is in Hz; IOW 1,000,000/RxCx2Pi You're using a digital crossover for the amps so you don't really need to passively roll them off, right? You might be able to boost the high frequency (+14KHz) output by using a small coupling cap to bypass the transformer. It has inter-winding capacitance anyway which is usually swamped out by loading the secondary. |
@atmasphere No, I was quoting that equation for someone else. I have not used a passive high pass crossover for 30 years. I do not know if you got the message, but I gave up on trying to bi amp the two transformers. I could not keep the amps from fighting with each other. It may work with a different pair of amps, but that would be to costly to experiment with. Driven from 100 Hz to 20 kHz one transformer, the right transformer will work fine and sound superior leaving only one digital crossover at 100 Hz. Live and learn. Lew and I have discussed the situation and we agree that a transformer in the 1:100 ratio region would be best. Meeno Vanderveen produces the best sounding transformer I have heard. Another interesting anomaly is the MA2s go significantly louder with less distortion when I put a 1 ohm resistor on each leg of the primary. I discovered this by accident. |
FROM A FORMER SHURE ENGINEER: - - - - - If you are attempting to make a realistic judgement between the cartridges you mentioned, I suggest you consider two things. That is, assuming you have the capability to audibly evaluate both cartridges with a common mode audio system, capable of first quality reproduction of micro detail. First, the SHURE you should be comparing, if you want to achieve the pinnacle of Shure audio development (which is considerable) in their final V15 version. It's almost a given that unless you have the "luck of the Gods", you will most likely never find a "NEW" (NOS) V15V x MR. In all fairness, that is the cartridge you should be seeking if you. truly want to experience the best that SHURE ever developed (With the exception of the ULTRA 500). That being said, there is no question in my mind about the reproduction quality of the SOUNDSMITH cartridges you have noted. I've listened to them all. The primary considerations here have to do with not only how you, in particular hear music (auditory capability), but almost as important, what type of styles of music you mainly listen to. Simply put, I find the SOUNDSMITH cartridges more dynamic and a bit more detailed, but slightly lacking in realistic warmth, which to me is consideration that the V15V has in plenty. I prefer the Shure for vocal and Jazz and most classical recordings. It also plays well with both ANALOGUE and DIGITAL electronics. Both solid state and tube. I like the SOUNDSMITH cartridges when listening to classic POP and NEW AGE music. The more forward and punchier sound plays well here. ROCK; RAP; METAL, FUNK and the like are not on my evaluatory list, I'm afraid. Oh yes, let's not forget country, Especially the older classic country. I give this venue to SHURE. So, does this help? Probably not! So, all I can say is if you have any leanings at all toward the V15, try to find a V15V x MR body in first rate condition that shows no sign of wear or abuse. Then, go for the BEST grade JICO stylus for that series (There is a difference between the stylus for the V15V x MR and the V15 V MR). I don't think you'll be sorry. |
@axpert Thank you for your input. I have gotten a set of 100 pf capacitors to install in my XLR to RCA adapters which should calm down the high end a bit and I will give the V15 another spin. It seems that some prefer the V MR to the x MR. If I see an x MR body going for a decent price I'll hop on it. I listen to everything except Pop and Wagner, even Steven Reich. I use electrostatic speakers, hard to find anything more detailed. On the initial go around I certainly would not characterize the V15 V MR as warm. I can say the Atlas Lambda SL is warmer than the Soundsmith Hyperion MR, but these two cartridges sound more alike than different. Both Soundsmith and Lyra use much higher grade diamonds than JICO as you can see here https://imgur.com/gallery/stylus-photomicrographs-51n5VF9 |
I had a Shure V15 VMR and got a Jico SAS for it on my highly modded Thorens TD-125 mkII w/Rabco SL-8E tonearm. It was very good but nothing I did could get that extra detail, space, imaging I wanted. After a year or so I moved on trying other cartridges and tonearms. Settled on a Technics EPC-205 mk3 w/Jico SAS. Really great! But still kept upgrading. Sold the Thorens and bought a Micro Seiki BL-99V turntable, put a Technics EPA-100mk2 tonearm on it and I alternate between my Technics EPC-205 mkIV Jico SAS and a EPC-100mk3 original stylus. I also have a Pickering XSV-4000 w/original stylus that sounds wonderful and full and images better then the Shure did. Both Technics have more detail and air, image, speed. |
