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@taras22
Not sure how gallium, indium and tin, a semi liquid goop, 1/15th the conductivity of oxygen free copper, is somehow superior to pure grade, oxygen free copper as a conductor for cables. I guess whatever makes a great sales pitch and you can stick the highest $$$ to.
While there are a lot of bogus claims of all kinds of miracle insulative coatings and shieldings for audio conductors, in reality, the best material, as an insulator for either data or audio signal conductors, is either PTFE (Teflon) or polyethylene, with as little shielding and protective covers as necessary, for a particular situation.
For audio cables and most everything else, I believe in sticking to the standards of proven technology and performance and the motto of KISS, JMO.......Jim
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@teo-audio Thank you for not being sure. Key point, there.
Enlighten me...Jim
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@teo-audio
Actually, I am sure - It's Not!
But still, enlighten me...Jim
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@taras22
To be sure, I have nothing against science and development - I’m all for it.
The fact is - nearly every facet of the music industry, from the performance, to the studio and into home, is going wireless.
Nearly all new forms of communication and dash control, is going wireless.
Even in the redundant safeguard, back up control systems (where wire and cables are used) in every industry, from the military, to the aviation industry, to the air-space industry - relies on wires and cables, for controls and communication, meeting long used and proven standards - none of which cost $1000.00 pr. foot.
Only in the audio industry, is anyone gullible enough to fall for the wild claims and ridiculous prices of wires and cables selling upward and over $1000.00 per foot.
For many years I worked for one worlds largest manufacture of everything from wires and cables, to industrial switch gear, to the worlds most sophisticated control systems, so I have a pretty good idea of what’s out there, how it works and what it should cost...Jim
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@taras22 Say what you want - I’ll stick with real science, engineering and craftsmanship and the next flight I take, I’ll feel secure knowing that the airliner I’m on was designed and built by real scientists, engineers and trained and skilled craftsmen, using proven science and engineering.
In fact, it was sound science that proved the world was not flat, not the true believers who condemned anyone who challenged their misguided beliefs....Jim
@geoffkait Gee Thanks - good having you on my side ;-) ;-) ;-) ............Jim
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Interesting - for the most part, the only ones you hear blowing about the greatness of the Schroeder Method, are those making and selling high dollar cables - go figure.
They boast that their particular $$$ cable is a revolution in cables and the best sounding thing on the planet - But Wait - if you want them to sound really, really good , you should double them. What is better than the best, oh yea - "The Really, Really Best". The next generation of mega dollar cables and wild ideas - The Really, Really, Really Best! Oh where does it end?
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Nope! Plenty much happy with the cables I have and have no desire to double the capacitance on my system......Jim
Not picking on you in general, just stating that cable makers, who would have us believe that their incredible $k per ft cable is the ultimate, now concede they sound even better if you double them.
I have no bias against cable makers, in general, but I do, at times, have a problem with their greed and looseness with the truth.......Jim
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@celander And a pair of SM dual Canare StarQuad assemblies at ~$150 breaks so many banks for audiophiles, too!
If, in Mr. Schroeder’s proclamation, he would have used SM dual Canare StarQuad cables @ $150.00, or Elizabeth’s $51.80 4 F AQs, as the test example for his Schroeder Method, rather than the TEO Audio Liquid Audio Cables and the Clarity Cable (both over $2K per 1M set and both he had previously, lustrously reviewed as being among the most open, detailed, quick and revealing, of cables) it would have made a bit of sense. My thought is - If it takes doubling up a set of $2K+ IC cables, or a pr. of $13,000 speaker cables, to really make them sound great, maybe they weren’t that great in the first place...Jim
@elizabeth You’re Welcome! Best of luck - let us know.
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@douglas_schroeder
Thanks for the clarification. It now seems to make better sense....Jim
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When I see all the other tech and music industries jumping on to the $1,000. per ft. cable band wagon, rather than the current trend of going wireless, maybe I'll become a believer.
Only in the home audio - audiophile - crowd (@prof... thanks for the previous correction - "not all") are there those gullible enough to believe that their $20,000 Audio system needs another $20,000 worth of cables and cords to sound good and then need to double all those expensive cables to make it sound really, really good. WOW, no wonder HEA is going under.....Jim
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@douglas_schroeder
So, what about my question in regard to analogue?
Now don't be blasphemes...LOL
Even though I do like both digital and analogue, I can kind of see your point. I am, myself, starting to question the sensibility of replacing expensive cartridges once every year or so (I'm retired and listen to music allot) and don't even want to think about the cost of replacing my TT and tone arm. Also getting a bit lazy and a bit less into getting up to flip LPs over every 15 min. But I do still have allot of LPs I really like, so my analogue will stick around for a while, just now spending more time with the digital......Jim
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Maybe a combination of ignorance, greed and ego
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@douglas_schroeder
Jim
I won’t hold your being an analogue lover against you. ;) Thanks!
So, you trust what the sellers say about the cartridges, but don’t trust me with a free method? Seriously, how is the improvement of a platter , tone arm, mat, phono cable or phono pre, or isolated motor measured aside from subjectively? How is that not parallel to cables?
No, I do not trust their claims, or see justification for some of the ridiculously high prices attached to HEA analogue - whether it be cartridges, tone arms or TTs.
For many years I worked for a large international corp. that manufactured, sold and serviced all manor of industrial and commercial electronics and apparatus. One of my jobs was to do field analysis and service on industrial rotating machinery - everything from high speed turbines to giant scrubber fans. I dealt first hand with the woes of harmonic resonance and vibration. I, one time saw the aftermath of a 12’, 15,000 lb scrubber fan that blew apart at 500 RPM, from a critical resonance. The company operating it thought it was OK, because everything had been previously balanced, to change out drive motors to boost its speed, without doing an analysis for potential other problems. It turned out that the upped 500 RPM excited the fan’s resonate frequency and it was curtains from there.
In home audio, controlling resonance and vibration is very important, but, if you know what you’re doing, it is relatively straight forward and doesn’t have to cost a fortune. When I see the outlandish designs and $$$ attached to some of the HEA turntables and after market resonate control devices - gotta shake my head and again I think "Only in the world of HEA".......Jim
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;-) :-) ;-) .........night Lizy
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Thanks Douglas, same here. I will give it a try.
@elizabeth first you have no idea of how much I do or do not have to spend on anything; second my opinions come from 30 plus years in a field of some of the most sophisticated electrical and mechanical, industrial and commercial components produced for every tech industry you can imagine. So get off your horse and grow up yourself lizy.....Jim
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WOW Lizy! Took you to be much older than 12, I guess that explains allot.
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@jsautter
Maybe a bit of arrogance, but I can guarantee you, not ignorance, my friend.
Again, - show me one other industry, tech or otherwise, that buys into or uses $1,000.00 per foot signal cable. Hint - "They Don’t"
It’s amazing that the ones questioned and scoffed, on this forum, are the ones who actually have many years of experience at building or repairing audio components, or those who have many years of professional experience in the music or tech industry, yet the same scoffers are eager to jump on to the wild claims of some of these high priced cable guys - some of which already facing, or have faced, suits and fines for false claims and improper business practices.
This thread is about the science of cables, so am just sticking to what is actually the science and truth of cables.......Jim
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@douglas_schroeder
Thanks.
Yes, I am open to trying something new and will reserve further opinions until I have tried for myself.....Jim
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Well, you know Geoff - coated with Graphene; or filled with incredible, semi-conductor liquid; or made in USA ultra high grade, specially treated, conductors - with multi layers of high-tech shielding (actually come from China bulk conductor wire - the equivalent of 24AWG at about $.25 pr. ft then wrapped and sleeved with a few layers of who knows what) But mostly - just have to claim it to be the best, with impeccable audio qualities, get a few endorsements, and put a $1k or more per ft. price tag on it - knowing that some gullible audiophile is sure to bite and regardless of how it performs, he/she would have to believe it to be the best thing since the Swiss Army Knife.
You, being a DC, Ear Phone, Walkman kind of guy and apparently do not and would not use any of these products. - Mes thinks yous just like to stur the pot...........Jim
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@cleeds Will you please tell us exactly which $1,000-per-foot audio cable you are referring to here? Will you please tells us which specific claims are troubling you? Wow really cleeds? I’m not going to start dropping names here. Do a google search for high end audio cables. You might be shocked to find that $1K per ft. is on the bottom side of some. ... the wild claims of some of these high priced cable guys - some of which already facing, or have faced, suits and fines for false claims and improper business practices. Will you please be specific about these "suits and fines for false claims?" Can you cite more than one instance? Again, do a little digging. Is pretty easy to find, either on google searches or several previous threads, brought up here on AG.......Jim |
@jsautter
My statement was plain and simple..... Aside from HEA, there is not one single industry that uses $1K per ft signal transfer cable - period.
So, you show me one that does!
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@cleeds
I have been trying to avoid a name game here.
OK here are two that claim to use Graphene in their cables: Courious Technologies - Graphene Matrix and Graphene Extreme; cerioustechnologies.com
Mad Scientist - Flexible Carbon/Graphene madscientist-audio.com
Both covered here on AG in previous threads.
Liquid, semi conductor fluid for conductors - already discussed in this thread
Some cables costing near or in excess of $1K per ft: Audio Quest - WEL Signature @ $7,500.00 ea. for IM. (nearly $2,5K per ft); Audio Quest - Wild Blue Yonder @ $4,500 ea. per 1M (nearly 1.5K per ft.; Purist - Dominus Luminest, speaker cable @ $12,480 for 2.5M pr. ($780. per ft. for ea. cable; Purist - Luminus 30th Aniversity, Power Cord @ $15,000 ea. 1M (nearly $5,000 per ft.
@jsautter
Still waiting to hear what industry, other than HEA, uses $1K per ft signal transfer cable, much less $5,000. per ft. 120v power cords.
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@calander
Was NASA mentioned in a now deleted post?
I don't think so. Maybe cleeds said something - Who knows.
.....Jim
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WOW! jsauter - Get with it! Read the post - I said that $.26 per ft. is what some cable manufactures pay for their bulk 24AWG bulk ins. copper lead wire from China.
Not NASA, or anyone else, except HEA, uses $1K per ft. signal or data transfer cable.
On average, though, considering that most everything has gone, or, is going wireless, it would be somewhere closer to $2.00 - $3.00 per ft. (NOT $1,000.00 per foot).
Do your own research and get back to me>>>Jim
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