Got out my White Hot Stamper of Fleetwood Mac and played it again last night. Only the second time its been played. They give you 30 days to return, no questions asked, and I was actually thinking of doing that. I mean, $300 for a record! One record! Come on!
Playing it again last night, sad to say I'm actually a lot more impressed the second time around. First time, expectations were impossibly high. This time instead of getting all caught up in a direct head to head I just played a few sides of some really good records. More like a normal session. Lot more relaxed. Damn this thing sounds good.
Even the first side, which I know does not sound as good as the second. Side 2 is just otherworldly.
Still I was thinking of returning it. They have another one, Side 1 is better but has a tick, so less money. But then instead of a great Side 2 I'd have a great Side 1. And a tick.
They just got in a Super Hot Stamper of Peter Gabriel So. Great album. Don't have one. Went looking on Discogs. Where absolutely unknown SQ runs $20 and up. Or $99 for a known Super Hot. Which they say, in addition to Super Hot SQ is pretty quiet.
Hate to say it, but these things sure seem to be fairly priced. The Super Hot So is on the way...
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Yeah. Like all you have to do is find a copy from the same pressing run. Like its that easy. That was my hope too. Eagerly writing down every detail, trying to take a picture (etched in glossy black, next to impossible), convinced this was all I needed. Then I pulled out my very average sounding copy. Every little detail. Exact same. In fact I am dead certain if I handed any one of you both copies you would all pick the crap one. Because they look the same, except one is all scratched up, and you would never guess the one with all the scratches sounds the best and by a margin that varies from large to impossible to believe until you hear it. Good luck with the wax guys. Total waste of time but good luck. Anyone really determined to waste their time and money chasing the wax theory even after its been debunked by my exact same pressing reality, here's how easy it is to start throwing your money away. Simply go here https://www.discogs.com/Fleetwood-Mac-Fleetwood-Mac/release/12774916With that you can throw money at even more identical looking but worse sounding pressings! There's probably even more. Discogs has them all nice and organized but you are kind of at the mercy of sellers bothering to look at such details. Still, there's no shortage of people willing to take your $30 or whatever. The link above is just one of many. Don't forget you want the POGO heart thing, which looks incredibly Dan Brown-y, you just know its gonna lead you to audio fortune, maybe even a monstrously global conspiracy. Or KENDUN which is stamped not scribed, got to be Davinci Code for sure. But no, there's a million of em. I knew the wax thing was a non-starter from the start. All you have to do is know enough about how these things are made to know its a non-starter. The marks in the wax only tell enough to know who did what with which equipment. If that's all that matters then my old copy would sound as good as this White Hot Stamper. After all they are the same according to the wax! But in reality? In reality you have vinyl plugs. Nothing in the wax about the plugs. Which can come from any of who knows how many suppliers, and even if you track that down no guarantee all the pressings from a given stamper were from that supplier. Or that the supplier didn't change something. But let's say you track that down and its all the same. Then the plugs have to be warmed to a temperature range in order to flow properly. What's the ideal temp? Does anyone even know? Not until you in your best Tom Hanks chasing the grail impersonation track it down and decipher it. So you do that. Then it probably had to come off the first few pressings when the faintest squiggles in the stamper were still nice and fresh. Probably. Unless that's when its not so good because there's also the mold release that has to be sprayed on, and who knows maybe it takes a while for the process of stamp/clean/spray/stamp to reach a sort of equilibrium of chemicals that magically results in the perfect pressing. When the vinyl is just right. And the temp. Oh, and the pressing rate. How its handled when it comes off the press. Warehouse temp and humidity. Good luck with all that. http://danbrown.com/the-da-vinci-code-young-adult-edition/ |
Okay so here's the deal on the Hot Stamper. Its a made up marketing phrase that Better Records uses to grade their premium grade vinyl. Hot Stamper is the lowest, then Super hot, and White Hot Stamper is their highest, supposedly the next best thing to the master tape. The Fleetwood Mac I'm reviewing is a White Hot Stamper.
One of the core tenets of this whole thing is the belief that no two records are the same. No two sides either, for that matter. As unlikely as this seems it's certainly been demonstrated to me very clearly. Over the last week or so I have compared copies of some dupes and even when everything looked like it should be the same it wasn't. Plus wait till I tell you what I heard on Fleetwood Mac!
But first, the unpacking. The record comes in a bubble-wrap lined box and securely sandwiched between two sheets of cardboard. The LP in its own excellent sleeve is outside the cover, the cover and the sleeve both within a thick mil clear plastic sleeve. Unlike most outer sleeves this is the kind of thing you might actually want to keep and use.
Inside this was the most time-capsule preserved album cover you ever saw. Seriously. The original owner, whoever it was, had carefully cut along the edge leaving the original shrink wrap in place. Definitely the original shrink wrap. It had the look and the feel. Just one tiny little tear on a corner. Unbelievable. The artwork, everything about it, couldn't have looked any better back in the summer of 75. Wouldn't surprise me if some would consider it worth the money just for the cover.
The LP itself wasn't nearly as impressive to look at. Came out of the sleeve clean as a whistle but showing a patina of spidery hairlines. But I bought it to play not look at.
My system's been tweaked and tuned a lot the last few months, but not the last week or so as I've just been listening and enjoying and getting used to the fruits of all that tweaking and tuning. The Herron has been on since I got it about two months ago, I turned the amp on a good hour before, demagnetized, and then played a side of The Ghost of Tom Joad to make sure the Koetsu was nice and ready.
Should probably mention a list of recommended listening tips including warm-up, demagnetizing, and more came with the LP.
The first track, Monday Morning, never has sounded that great to me and didn't here either. Definitely better than the vintage copy I have, for sure, but nothing to write home about. Warm Ways always sounded a lot better on my copy and does here as well. There's a lot more "there" there, especially in terms of detail and vocal presence. Its just a lot more believable presentation.
I want to take a minute and explain what I mean by that. I hadn't bothered to demagnetize my system in quite a while. Oh, I played the XLO demagnetizing tracks recently. Definitely makes a difference. But I also have the Radio Shack Bulk Tape Eraser, a powerful handheld unit that can be used to demagnetize everything from speaker cables and interconnects to tubes, records, and CDs. When I used that for the first time in like forever the improvement was .... a lot.
In other words, Side One of the White Hot Stamper was better than my old vintage copy by about the same amount as I can get by demagnetizing everything. A really nice improvement. Definitely noticeable. Not great. A lot.
Side Two, according to Better Records, is supposed to be a little better.
No, don't think so. Not even close. Side Two to my ears is a LOT better. Hugely better. Like two completely different LPs better. Better dynamics, better bass, midrange, better detail. Not all the way across, but not by some small amount you could match with a few tweaks either. Or any tweaks! Side Two is just a whole different animal.
The first track, again, not quite so much. But Landslide, oh my God! I was darn near agape at the sound of that guitar, the vocals, everything. Only thing I have even comes close to this is the MoFi 45 of Brothers in Arms. Even then its apples to oranges, Knopfler not as palpably "there". Probably shouldn't even mention it, except I'm scrambling for something, anything people might be familiar with to use as a reference. When the truth is, honestly, its hard to believe any record could ever sound this good. All I can think is, every over the top glowing review you can find on Better Records, this must be what they're talking about.
The next track, World Turning, is just as good. Rythmic bass drive like I never heard. Right up there with Landslide. The rest of the side, hard to say. Overshadowed comes to mind. Or as Tom Port puts it, Landslide is a masterpiece and "a real high point for side two." For sure.
So there's one White Hot Stamper experience for people to consider. Just below White Hot is Super Hot, and then Hot. Keep that in mind. The copy I had was purchased used based on appearance not sound, yet one side of my White Hot Stamper wasn't really a whole lot better. The other side though, two tracks anyway, darn near priceless. It seems clear there is a lot of variability even after going through their selection process. This combined with the fact some people may by sheer random chance have managed to score a really good pressing is enough to account for dorkwads experience, as he describes above.
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Anyone seriously bothered by surface noise can easily eliminate it. But then they have to be able to tolerate listening to CDs.
One of the recommended listening tweaks on Better Records is to demagnetize before listening. They recommend the Talisman, basically an egregiously overpriced demagnetizer. I already have the more powerful, effective, and much more affordable Radio Shack Bulk Tape Eraser, which for years I have used on records and CDs. While I haven't the foggiest idea why (there is nothing in vinyl to demagnetize) the fact is it does work- but not for long. Which is why I found it very interesting that Tom Port says they always demagnetize within 10 minutes of critical listening.
For years I thought about using this on my speaker cables, etc. But I never bothered because I already have the XLO test CD with its demagnetizing tracks that work on the whole system. So why bother? Well last night I did bother and wow, what an improvement! Takes a while because its designed for 1 min on 30 min off, shutting itself off it it gets too warm, so that it took a while to do the whole system. But just doing the speaker cables was enough to keep me going. Could not believe how much it cleaned up and extended across the board but especially the top end.
Its the stories like this, telling people to disconnect appliances, and warm
up the system, and demagnetize within 10 minutes, that tells me the guy is legit. But still, to be worth it, its got to be way more than the difference between normal crap pressings and some of the really good ones I already have. For that you only need to try a few examples, or just buy the MoFi or whatever. For the money I paid it needs to be well and truly beyond a shadow of a doubt beyond that.
I have the system. I have the ears. Tonight we find out. |
Remember what Frank N Furter said. |
Its a White Hot Stamper Fleetwood Mac. Last I looked it showed as sold.
I just checked and found a few dupes in my collection. Dreamboat Annie, Captain Fantastic, Tumbleweed Connection, Madman Across the Water, Equinox, and Aja. Mostly these were accumulated friends and family who tossed them years ago, which I hadn't bothered cleaning and playing because just looking at them it seemed the ones I had were in better shape.
So I cleaned them up and last night after getting everything all nice and warmed up and demagnetized I compared a couple. Dreamboat Annie, the easiest thing is to say the ocean waves sounded on one like real ocean surf, with the full range including that subtle low-end component that tells you its far away and powerful. On the other it sounded like white noise. These two copies by the way, unless you know how to decipher dead wax script I don't know how you'd tell them apart- exact same cover, label, etc. Not so Tumbleweed Connection, one on the original MCA label, the other Uni. Not only did the newer Uni sound much worse, it was down a good 4dB in level!
Captain Fantastic, I really wanted the newer looking and much quieter sounding copy to sound better. But it was no contest. The noisy one that nevertheless sounds so much better goes back on the shelf. It really does sound good! I mean just amazingly good!
Madman, my older noisier original MCA is down a good 4dB in level compared to the new 180g, but the heavier one has a hard aggressive edge and lack of harmonic development and depth. Adjusted for volume its not even close.
Now while these differences definitely do exist the difference between the worst and best sounding of them is worth nowhere near $300. So Tom Port has his work cut out for him. On the other hand, all these examples are me comparing between just a few copies. Can't rule out that given enough examples a few might turn up that are far and away better than any that I have.
Seems to me I can't lose. If the White Hot Stamper sounds only a little better than what I have then great, I've got the satisfaction of knowing my copy is about as good as anyone's anywhere. Never gonna waste my time buying 180g or 45 reissues, they will only be more quiet not and really not sound any better, and I get my money back. But if the White Hot Stamper really does sound incredibly closer to the master tape then even better. Now I've got a real stunner.
Hard to see the downside here. Saturday night we will find out. |
Ashamed to say it but I must now admit to having contributed to the misinformation that comprises the majority of this thread. My mistake was taking "hot stamper" literally and missing the meaning of the people who quite correctly pointed out that in this case hot stamper is a term of marketing. Now having educated myself let me make amends and share the news.
Some years ago this fellow Tom Port and a few other equally obsessed audiophiles began noticing that no two pressings, nor even sides, are ever exactly the same. Every once in a while lightening strikes, the heavens align, and one comes out the stamper sounding so close to the master tape you can hardly believe it. But, contrary to the majority of comments above, you cannot tell this by engineer, stamper, wax, or any other means whatsoever. Only way to tell is to play the damn thing.
Being competitive obsessed audiophiles they started getting together to see who had the best of what. Cream rises to the top, and eventually they have lots of cream. Not to mention, along the way, a whole system approach to it all. The exercise of meticulously comparing the sound of each side of each LP leads to scrutinizing cleaning methods, cleaning solutions, etc.
Now I yield to no man when it comes to skepticism. Grandma hails from Missouri. The Show Me state. Case in point, someone says they bought a couple of these didn't sound any better than what they had, I am equally as skeptical of their claim as Tom Port's. I look for revealing little details. One I found on the Better Records site really got my attention.
There's a lot of info on Better Records on how to listen, how to get the most from your records, etc. What got me the most was when they said go around and unplug as many appliances as you can. Now, okay, always possible they load their site up with stuff like that as bait to snare the credulous audiophool. Except, far as I can tell, most don't believe this and think its crazy. I've mentioned it a few times and have yet to hear from anyone who actually tried it. (Who hadn't already, I mean.) For Better Records to include it on a list of frankly really good recommendations (warm up your amp, play a few sides to warm up the cartridge, demagnetize your system- another bit of rare advice btw) is telling.
Also telling is the frankness. Buried in among all the other info is the frank admission that they pay less than $20, often less than $6, for the records they turn around and sell for up to $600- and more. They make no bones about it. They also make no bones about not being for everyone. You have to be able to hear the difference. There goes 90% of the market. You have to be able to appreciate the difference. There goes another 90%. And you have to be able to afford it. Clearly Better Records is marketing to the .1%ers. No wonder hardly anyone even bothers trying to understand what they're doing. Like FranknFurter said, "I didn't build him FOR YOU!"
Maybe not even for me. I spent hours combing Better Records, first trying to understand what they were doing, then trying to see if they had anything to offer a guy like me.
Along the way it dawns on me, I have lots of records with music I love that I hardly ever listen to because the recording, or the pressing, is crap. Almost all the recordings I really love, its because of the music AND the recording AND the pressing. Two out of three just don't cut it with me.
Which as luck would have it I came across the eponymous Fleetwood Mac. Already have one, a (maybe) early issue copy bought used for a few bucks. Kind of noisy and sounds like not the greatest recording although lately between the Koetsu and the Herron its been sounding pretty good. There's only a few others they have that I would even consider. Linda Ronstadt For Sentimental Reasons, Sinatra Francis A & Edward K.
I went with Fleetwood Mac. Worth the money? Guess I will find out Saturday. |
Its not a myth. Its a misnomer. Or whatever the word is for a term being misused. The stamper must always be hot. Vinyl simply will not flow properly with a cold stamper.
As for the rest, if you really want to understand then I suggest you spend an afternoon tracking down and reviewing MF videos. Those little codes scratched into the vinyl on the inside close to the label? They identify which stamper was used. So you can tell just by looking if your LP came from the original or one of the later copies.
Sorry I don't have a link, but you could do worse than spend an hour listening to Mikey. |
