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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






daveyf

Showing 6 responses by hdm

hdm
1,074 posts
 
In my case, back around 1980, when I switched into moving coils I managed to listen to the Dynavector Ruby and the Accuphase AC-2, both of which had been judged neutral-sounding but "musical" by TAS, and finally purchased the AC-2. Two years later I bought two more (used) as backups as audiophiles abandoned them to follow Harry's "latest and greatest and more expensive" cartridges. I knew I would never upgrade my cartridge further, and never have.

Two incidentals: in today's dollars the AC-2 would fall around $1800 and the Dynavector Ruby a bit over $2000. So you might want to consider $2000 as a reasonable benchmark for getting a top-flight MC cartridge. And secondly, I still go to dozens of jazz and chamber and orchestral concerts a year. I often listen with my eyes closed, as I do when listening to my system at home. I get the same listening satisfaction from both. I'm not sure a cartridge can deliver more than that.

Excellent post Harrylavo. 

I agree. The Accuphase AC2 is a seriously good cartridge. I bought one online a few months ago that was missing a stylus but otherwise appeared to be in very good condition in the photos. Picked it up for next to nothing and then had Andy Kim fit a Namiki boron cantilever with Microridge stylus on it and rework the suspension (if it indeed needed it). 

So I have about $600 U.S. into this cartridge and it will probably be the last one I own. I'll simply retip it every 2000 hours or so. Should last me a very long time.

I've had pretty good luck rebuilding/retipping lesser cartridges in the past and took a flyer on this one. Alternatively, in a new cartridge I probably would have just popped for the Audio Technica ART 9. But the Accuphase piqued my curiosity based on what I'd read about it and as a low impedance design was a very good fit with my phono stage. 

I realize that vintage (either in MM or MC) or rebuilding is not for everyone or at least the feint of heart, but that is where the big value is in the cartridge market now with prices escalating as they have in the past 5 years or so. 

Even the Accuphase 5 was over $4000 when it was current; the new Accuphase 6 appears to be that or a bit more. And the Dynavector SV1-S and SV1-T are $5600 and $9500 respectively. 

The current prices on cartridges are nuts. 
hdm
1,074 posts
 
@dgarretson

Yes, the Accuphase cartridges tend to fly a bit under the radar, which I think is the primary reason you can still purchase one without stylus or broken cantilever at pretty reasonable prices. I paid $112 on Ebay.

My system is certainly not ultra high end; the Accuphase is on a Jelco 750D with an aftermarket mounting collar and a Yamamoto HS4 carbon fibre headshell (a really nice headshell and a pretty substantial upgrade over the stock Jelco headshell) on a Michell Gryodec running into an Aqvox phono stage. The Aqvox is a current mode stage that tends to work better IMO with low impedance designs so the Accuphase is a good fit there.

The AC2 I have is probably also on the warmer side of neutral, but just slightly and not overtly warm like the lower end Koetsus IMO. My AC2 also originally had a sapphire tube cantilever; I’m just guessing, but I would expect that switching to the boron cantilever when Andy re-worked it probably warmed it up a bit as well.

Rumour has it that the AC2 and the Monster Alpha Genesis 1000 (both Nakatsuka designs-unlike as you pointed out the newer Accuphase cartridges) are essentially the same cartridge but I really can’t confirm that and the Genesis 2000 that I believe followed the 1000 was apparently quite a bit warmer than the 1000 so maybe the AC3 was cut from the same cloth and followed a similar path?

I would think your Kuzma arm should be a pretty good match with the AC3 in terms of effective mass/compliance as both are in the medium camp but perhaps you might have a better match with one of your other arms.

My system does not really warrant expenditures in even the $2K-$3K range in cartridges and from what I’ve heard in the uber expensive cartridges in much better systems than mine I still think there is compromise involved and subjective preferences come into play when it comes to purchasing a single cartridge.

I didn't mean to suggest that the AC2 was the equal of current offerings in the $5k-$15K range-I'm sure there are better cartridges out there. Just not at a cost that I'd like to absorb.  

But I’m a bit of a cheapskate and quite taken with my AC2. And if it's as good as the average $3000 cartridge, I am still thrilled! I think I can live happily ever after with it, but haven’t we all said that before?

;)
hdm
1,074 posts
 
Have bought a couple of relatively inexpensive cartridges and other items from Juki in the past. Wouldn’t hesitate to deal with him and, if I recall correctly, he did take a fairly expensive cartridge back on return/exchange once from someone posting on another forum.

Took a quick look at his feedback and didn’t see any Koetsu feedback (he does have some listed) but did notice a couple of feedbacks on pretty upmarket cartridges (Ortofon A95 and Dynavector SV-1S) in the past few months, both of which sold at substantial (really substantial actually!) discounts to the U.S. prices. It appears they are essentially being sold without the U.S. distributor/retail chain mark up.
hdm
1,074 posts
 
Chakster: your position on Juki is well known (almost legendary at this stage from being repeated so much here). 

Anyone capable of doing a google search can come up with lots of information on Juki. He's been selling cartridges and other audio related equipment for about 20 years now (possibly longer), has impeccable Ebay feedback and, from what I can see, is not prone to jerking people around or refusing returns. Most of his customers have nothing but positive things to say about him. 

The grey market is the grey market. Your suggestion that similar discounts are going to be available through normal channels is not reasonable; that's how the "normal channels", distributors and retailers, make their money. 

Your point about Juki's sources though is valid and is the topic of discussion in at least one of the threads about Juki if one wants to spend the time online. And it is very possible that those sources, quite very possibly legitimately purchased through the manufacturer or normal distributor channels, but then, for whatever reason needed to liquidate or unload the product and then altered or destroyed serial numbers to protect themselves and their relationship with the manufacturer or regional distributor. 

So it's no surprise that manufacturers and distributors are not big fans of Juki as he's making their life a bit more difficult. From what I can see there is no proof whatsoever of Juki selling used as new or altering serial numbers himself.

It's important that Buyers be aware of the fact that manufacturer's warranty is not going to be available through Juki  or other grey sellers and I think that most who purchase from him are aware of this and I would expect that especially someone who is interested in purchasing a $2000-$5000 cartridge from him at an outrageous discount to retail would likely be aware of this. 

And I'm sure there would be buyers of these cartridges who could care less about the fact that they cannot have the cartridge rebuilt in the future by the manufacturer at a price that grossly exceeds the cost of going to an aftermarket re-builder/retipper, as sacrilegious as that seems to you and many others. Or they can just toss the cartridge at the end of its life or sell it to a guy like me who, if the price is reasonable enough, will send it to an aftermarket retipper.

For those types of Buyers, Juki is simply filling a need that obviously exists in the marketplace. 

I'm curious: did you find out about the serial number on your Zyx before you mounted and used it and approach Juki for a refund/return?
hdm
1,074 posts
 
Chakster:

I am quite aware of everything you stated in your last post with the exception of the unique mounting of the stylus on your Zyx.

Unlike you, I’d be quite content to have an aftermarket retipper do the catridge at a significant discount to replacement price from Zyx on trade. It would no longer be a Zyx but if it sounded good, I could care less. And there are many stories out there from those who have had very expensive cartridges retipped by Soundsmith, Andy Kim or other aftermarket rebuilders who have been very happy with them.

I suppose I have to hang my head in shame and live with the fact that my Accuphase AC2 is really no longer an AC2. It is still a Nakatsuka design (like your Zyx) but now sports a Namiki boron cantilever and microridge stylus (I believe most of the Zyx cartridges sport Namiki manufactured cantilever and styli as well) instead of its original sapphire cantilever.

But it sounds very nice and for the $625 U.S. (in total) I have invested in it I’m quite happy. I’d probably be quite content to do the same kind of thing to your Zyx if I could acquire it at the right price but I’d have to get it cheap LOL.

In the end, I doubt you are really out a lot of money based on Juki’s typical discounts on cartridges like that based on what it is worth on a trade in back to Zyx. And you could always recover a few hundred dollars selling it after 1500-2000 hours to someone like me who doesn’t care that it really won’t be a Zyx anymore following an aftermarket retip. ;)

hdm
1,074 posts
 
@daveyf

I certainly wouldn’t be interested in paying the full retail price for any of the uber cartridges as I don’t feel that they would represent good value for me based on my system and having heard a number of them in a system much better than mine.

If you listen to a lot of these cartridges in a very good system, I think it is fair to say that most of them are very good but really offer different types of presentations that appeal to listeners based, in good part, on their subjective listening preferences. And a cartridge that sounds great on one type of recording may not sound so good on another. To a certain extent I think there is always an element of compromise with the use of only one cartridge in a system.

So that is a conclusion that I’ve come to personally; if I had another $20K-$30K invested in my system and substantially more in my house providing a very large dedicated listening room then a $5K+ cartridge might make some sense to me.

As it stands though, if I was to purchase one of these cartridges at a reasonable (to me) discount, I would absolutely have no problem sending it to someone like Peter Ledermann or Andy Kim to have them rework it.

That is in fact, how I’ve been operating for the last 6-7 years, albeit with lesser cartridges, and its worked out pretty well for me. I do think the Accuphase AC2 that I’m currently using is at least competitive into the medium to higher range of cartridges currently out there.

In reality, you would have no idea how your Benz would stand up following work from an aftermarket retipper (at a substantial discount to a new cartridge or a manufacturer rebuild) unless you actually had the work done and made the comparison.

Many people have reported very good results with said aftermarket retips on high end cartridges.

The results of the recent retip of the Zyx Universe by Peter L in the current threads will be interesting to follow. 
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