The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...


I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






128x128daveyf

Showing 11 responses by br3098

Jeez, what a bunch of whiny b1thches!  You guys need to grow a pair and put on some big boy pants.

I'm not going to defend uber-priced cartridges.  I will say that if you can make a top-flight MC cartridge for less money, please go ahead.  And I won't defend the distributor/dealer system, which certainly contributes to higher prices.  But without it we wouldn't have an expansive audio business in the U.S.  Why do you guys think that distributors exist?  They put up capital (lots of $$$) to have products that you want to buy readily available.  Manufacturers and dealers both rely on distribution for most products, and without a robust distribution network there wouldn't be a retail audio business.

As a former audio dealer myself, I am going to defend dealers.  Why doesn't one of you brave commenters put your time, money and reputation where your mouth (actually, fingers) is/are and become a dealer for, let's say, twenty audio products that would constitute a complete audio system: turntables, tonearms, cartridges, phono stages, preamps, amps and speakers.  Then add (at least) fifty other products that you need to carry in order to complete the sale.  Remember, you will need at least one to show and one to go for each product; probably more.  You have a nice space to demo your gear, right?  And insurance, an advertising/marketing budget and at least one under-compensated employee on salary, right?  And if you are lucky, only every fourth or fifth customer will want to return a brand new product (after you have spent hours demoing the product in your demo room and maybe in the customer's home) just because he decided that he didn't like it after all and the CC company says that he can return anything for any reason within the first 30 (or sometimes 60) days.  So you now have a new product that you have spent what, ten hours or more trying to sell, that you now have to sell as a dealer demo or maybe a used product at par or a loss.

Do you really believe that you will show what anyone would consider a reasonable profit after the first year?  After the second?  Ever?

Audio dealers are not angels and not all dealers are for all buyers.  But before you criticize you should walk a mile in their shoes.  As the guy who has to pay the bills and the salaries of the poor mistreated employees.

daveyf, yes I read everyone's comments that were before my response.  I didn't quote you specifically because mine was more of a general response.  But I feel that my comments apply to your post as well.  You are complaining about cartridge availability, demo availability, "price fixing" and dealer pricing.

I believe that my comments are relevant to your post.

daveyf:
Given your last post, I can see that you have absolutely no clue as to what the high end cartridge consumer is faced with.
With all due respect, that's BS.  I'm a high-end cartridge consumer.  I will admit that I have no clue as to what your problem is.  High-end audio is not a game for wimps.  It requires you to do your homework, deal with people and vendors that you trust then take a leap of faith and make a frigging decision, often times based on less than ideal information.

If you can't won't do that there are lots of "safe" (aka less expensive) options.  There are no guarantees in this hobby.

...since many of you seem to have no problem with being completely ripped off in this endeavor...
If you have a better way to offer high-end cartridges to the select few high-end audio buyer, please put your money where your "mouth" is and show us old farts how it should work.  Otherwise you're just whining...


To my fellow Audiogoners,

I apologize for violating my own policy and responding with reason and emotion to (what I consider to be) a silly thread.  I will avoid feeding the creature from here on forward.

daveyf,

Dude, you just HAVE to be a millennial.  Good luck dealing with the real world!

...my Koetsu dealer told me that it is actually cheaper to fly into Japan for a few days, buy the cartridge there and enjoy the visit, than it is to get ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and their repacious profiteering with these cartridges.
Go for it.  I have travelled to Japan many times and some gear is more expensive there than it is here.  I do not know if this is true for Koetsu or not.  And Music Direct is not the only dealer for Koetsu in the U.S.

I haven't been an audio dealer for several years.  While I always look for the best deal, I pay retail just like you do.

What's your excuse for acting the Troll?  Hmmm.

tangramca: 
If I was trying out a $5K cart, I would happily pay a hundred bucks (2% of the potential purchase price) to have it installed by an approved tech.
I don't know where you live, but I live in L.A.  A "local" customer could be 100 miles away from my shop.  If I sent someone to install a cartridge in a customer's home that's 3+ hours away in traffic, both ways.  If the tech spends an hour with the customer that's 7 hours of time.  Plus gas, insurance, $15/hr minimum wage (for a high school kid), disability, unemployment, etc.  For $100???

I would sell direct, using a distributor in each major geography to handle logistics.
If you are using a distributor, how can your sales channel also be direct?  And what distributor is going to take on a line if they can't distribute through their dealer network?  Unless you are talking Amazon...

tangramca, actually I am a former (recovering) dealer.  If I had the answer to your question I would probably still be a dealer today.

In the 1970s and into the 80s there used to be dealers like you describe; I worked for one in the 1970s.  But the high-end audio industry is a very different animal today.  For one thing, much of the product available on the high-end is manufactured on a very small scale - one step away from a cottage industry.  These shops cannot handle dealing with a multitude of dealers, nor are most dealers setup to coordinate with an infinite amount of manufacturers.

Another reason: in the 1970s and 1980s, most audio products were manufactured by large, (mostly) financially secure companies.  Today there is a plethora of products, including well considered high-end products being manufactured in someone's garage.  There's nothing wrong with that, but almost anyone who has attended a major audio show could agree that "are there too many audio products available" is a valid question.

I don't think that the Rolex analogy works well.  Rolex devices are typically sourced through importers (aka distributors), and Rolex doesn't change models or features often.  Also, if Rolex purchased by a shop doesn't sell it can be stored and resold much later at a higher cost as a "classic" product.  Even if a dealer could afford to adopt a buy and hold strategy (almost none can), this has not proved to be largely not true for audio products, with the exception of NOS tubes.

Despite what others think. I'm not defending the current status quo as the best system.  But in reality it's the system we have and I don't believe it's going to change anytime soon.  But as I wrote before, if any of you has a better business plan please put it into motion and let's see how the audio community supports it.  Please advise us when you setup your GoFundMe page.