"none of the above makes sense a good example of pseudo-science"
Interesting that you seem to appreciate Tesla, his innovations and inventions, and yet: fail to recognize that virtually everything he did was based on the theories I've mentioned prior, in this thread and elsewhere on this site (ie: Field Theory, Wave Function, etc).
"pseudo-science" ??
Another rewind, based on some general observations and that should shed further light on the subject of modern (post 1800's) science/Electrical Theory and how we've benefitted from what you choose to call, "pseudo-science".
Cargo cult science is a pseudoscientific method of research that favors evidence that confirms an assumed hypothesis. In contrast with the scientific method, there is no vigorous effort to disprove or delimit the hypothesis.[1] The term cargo cult science was first used by physicist Richard Feynman during his 1974 commencement address at the California Institute of Technology.[1]
Cargo cults are religious practices that have appeared in many traditional tribal societies in the wake of interaction with technologically advanced cultures.
Do a bit of research and you'll learn those primitives were limited in their understanding of what they saw with their eyes, based on their prior experience, education and BIASES.
A rewind:
It isn't that the Denyin'tologists are ignorant.
It's they're knowing* so much, that's WRONG.
*heart of the Dunning-Kruger Effect
OR, two:
The Church of the Naysayer Doctrine (like every other faith-based, religious cult) has as many dopes as it does Popes.
Bring up anything resembling SCIENCE/PHYSICS, dated later than the 1800’s and they become apoplectic, not having the formal education to comprehend the concepts, or- possible ramifications. THAT would be hilarious, were it not so pathetic!
Gimme That Old Time Religion, Gimme That Old Time Religion, etc.
At the very first mention of something as simple as Wave Function (a BASIC tenet of Quantum Mechanics), the Cargo Cult will label you a KOOK.
But remember: they can only view/understand you, based on their limited experience, education and BIASES.
They have overlooked the fact that, if not for the hypotheses/theories and experimentation, regarding Quantum Mechanics: a plethora of modern conveniences, medical devices and the gear they so love, would not exist.
Had scientists, chemists and inventors shared the doctrines of the Cargo Cult (Denyin'tologists), there would be no semiconductors, computer chips, LASERs, or Magnetic Resonance Imaging devices (MRIs).
Solid State amps?
OOPS (back to tubes)!
Your Smart Phone?
FA'GET ABOUT IT!
Your car's GPS?
NOPE!
Then too: some may be willfully ignorant and just enjoy being contentious.
Others: obtuse, uneducated*, misinformed?
*Typically, from what's been exhibited here: H.S. STEM, if that, would be a safe inference.
Either way: the result, when the Cult begins its rhetoric, is a classic demo of the Dunning- Kruger Effect.
But, I digress:
Bring up those pesky details, regarding the likes of QED, Dielectric Absorption, Poynting's theorem and possible application/effects, relative to frequency, that our musical signals are carried via photon or wave, outside the conductor and you're a KOOK?
Again: the Cargo Cult can only understand anyone with an actual background, experience and education in Physics/QED, based on their beliefs, education, experience and biases
Remember this?.
One anecdote that some may find interesting: their walks in the woods and how Feynman's father would encourage him to look beyond the fact that something in nature exists, but into why and how.
It saddened him that while attending college, during a visit home and one of their walks: his dad asked what he was learning in college.
At that moment, he realized: if he tried to explain what he was learning, there was no way his dad could understand.
It wasn't an insult or condescension.
Just reality.
Oh well: let 'em go build a runway!
references:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applications_of_quantum_mechanics#:~:text=Examples%20include%20lasers%2C%20electron%20microscopes,systems%2C%20computer%20and%20telecommunication%20devices.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2015/08/13/what-has-quantum-mechanics-ever-done-for-us/?sh=37c459944046
https://uwaterloo.ca/institute-for-quantum-computing/quantum-101/quantum-applications-today
But: I'm a kook, because I believe in the SCIENCE, from which all that sprang?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/five-practical-uses-spooky-quantum-mechanics-180953494/
Einstein got that last one wrong (Quantum Entanglement), BUT- I still wish he'd been alive, when the Hubble Telescope proved, what he considered his, "greatest blunder" (his inability to bring symmetry to his field equation, without lambda.
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200507/history.cfm#:~:text=Einstein's%20original%20equations%20had%20been,how%20the%20universe%20will%20end. How about that?
Another example of a hypothesis/theory, with no way to MEASURE, what you're sure must be there, in some detectable way, or another.
Just for fun:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/6-times-quantum-physics-blew-our-minds-in-2022/
Happy listening!
|
Back in March 2022: a thread about power cords and break/burn-in was started.
I hate to type, so: I'm going to copy/paste some of my speculations.
That a highly complex musical signal, MIGHT affect Poynting vectors and signal speeds*, in interconnects, in a much more profound manner than a simple AC (ie: a fixed 60/50 Hz) signal, in a PC, seems likely (at least) to me, as; in EVERY formula regarding *those two, a signal's frequency (frequencies) always factors in greatly.
Further: the above and what I'll c/p (seems to me) lends credence to how the application of a stronger, DC voltage/field, outside a dielectric (ala Synergistic MPC and Audioquest DBS systems), might stabilize those vectors and signal speeds, PERHAPS eliminating some time smear and, "burn-in".
|
5,456 posts
03-31-2022 at 12:13am
@holmz-
Bear with me a minute, in my folly, far as a possibility on why a power cord might make a difference.
Based on some of the theories on how electricity works, simplified:
The conductor acts as a waveguide for the signal/voltage.
Within the conductor: when excited by an AC current, electrons oscillate, generating photons/electromagnetic waves that travel, always from the source, to the load.
Keep in mind: all signals (ie: music, AC) are sinusoidal waves
Those photons/electromagnetic waves travel through and outside the dielectric, which (according to it's permittivity/Poynting vectors) will have various effects on those waves. One of the most obvious is the dielectric's effect on the speed of the signal.
The better designers of printed circuit boards, even take the above into account, when choosing materials for their products.
I posted a link on the first page that included data on the manufacture of semiconductor chips and what was observed when materials were cryo'd, during the process. Short version: better contact/lowered resistance between layers.
Under the scanning microscope: much smoother surfaces observed.
I would hope, by now, it's a given that various cable constructions, twists, braids, etc, can make for a cleaner transmission of signals (ie: Litz, etc).
Just seems to me (a hypothesis): given the above (some theories and some things established/measured/proven), it's not a big stretch to believe a power cord, built of the best conductor (ie: Ohno CC silver), wrapped in a very low dielectric coefficient dielectric (ie: Teflon), cryo'd for the smoothest transfer of those photons/magnetic waves and twisted in some crazy way, might not smooth out some of perturbations/noise, from the crap an AC waveform had to go through, back to it's generator. (run-on, much?)
I haven't tested this, actually comparing two circuits, but: it wouldn't surprise me, if a power supply that used a choke, would be less affected by a better power cord, as the former can eliminate a lot of the high freq garbage, etc, that's either created by, or makes it through all the big converting/filtering stuff, before.
Never thought about PCs before the good stuff hit the market, but: the Physics/QED made sense.
I tried 'em, I like 'em and the science makes my head feel better.
Don't care WHAT it does to anyone else's!
|
|
5,456 posts
03-31-2022 at 12:27am
OH, and: it takes some time for the dielectric to form, take a charge, polarize, or however one chooses to define the process, when a dielectric is subjected to electromagnetic waves, which affects the Poynting vectors, measurably/predictably.
The lower the material’s dielectric constant: the longer that takes.
PC (interconnect/etc) burn-in? Maybe?
|
Happy listening!
|
Unfortunately there are no measurement data or mathematical formulas to be found to back up this amazing scientific discovery. Simply “it happens”.
I suppose: if one is determined to ignore* the facts/data gleaned, over the past’s many decades of experimentation in QED, as well as basic Electrical Theory; they may choose to infer & believe such simplistic silliness.
*willful ignorance = the heart of Dunning- Kruger
.
|
Another rewind:
Anyone needing a rationale for experimenting with new cables in their system and/or feeling dissuaded by the Church of Denyin'tology's antiquated electrical doctrines: take heart!
Many new electrical facts have been established in the past 100 years, that support audible differences, between various cables, fuses, etc.
I couldn't find anything like, "Updated Electrical Theory For Idiots", but- did manage to find something resembling a cartoon, that even a child could follow. It neither mentions AC/sinusoidal waves in wires, nor does it go into the photon propagation of electromagnetic waves. It does, however, emphasize/demonstrate how Electrical Theory has progressed, since the 1800s:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGJqykotjog)
The next presupposes a certain amount of knowledge, in the field of modern Electrical Theory.
https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=2348
It's an established (measured) fact that an electromagnetic wave's propagation and speed, are dependent on the materials, of which the transmission line (cable) are made (ie: Dielectric Constant/permittivity). The better (lower) the Dielectric Constant the better the flow and the longer it takes for that material, to become polarized. One reason anything that comprises an RLC circuit (ie: capacitors, cables, PC boards), takes time to, "form", or, "break/burn-in".*
*Something that makes the Denyin'tologists apoplectic.
https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2019-dielectric-constant-of-pcb-substrate-materials-and-signa....
https://unlcms.unl.edu/cas/physics/tsymbal/teaching/EM-914/section5-Guided_Waves.pdf
Even the most inane (regarding the Sciences) must admit; braiding and twisting wires eliminates/reduces EMI interference.
That must lend credence to various cable geometries.
That better dielectrics enhance the propagation of electromagnetic waves (ie: your music signal), lends the same credence to choosing cables with better materials (ie: Polypropylene, Teflon, air, etc).
Of course: anything the Church of Denyin'tology's popes can't fathom, they'll summarily dismiss.
As simple a device as a fuse is: it still carries a sinusoidal signal/voltage, ALWAYS from source to load.
NOT back and forth!
Also (as mentioned above): any fuse acts as an RLC circuit, the 'C' of which will be determined by properties of its wave guide's/ conductor's surroundings (ie: glass, air, bee's wax, ceramic, end cap materials, etc).
Any commonly drawn wire will exhibit a chevron pattern in its crystal lattice, so: why not "directionality" and why OHNO Continuous Cast, single crystal wire sounds better, to so many?
Stated above are scientifically tested, measured and proven facts.
There is no "contest", or "dispute" involved.
The OP mentions Maxwell, but: obviously they have no understanding of his theory and possible ramifications as regards the above.
Anyone that feels compelled to harp on not hearing any differences, is obviously too obtuse to understand the term "variables" (as frequently mentioned) and worthy of disregard.
My only goal in these threads has ever been to encourage those with a mind to experiment with their systems, based on the latest (20th/21st Century's) findings of ACTUAL Physics/science and ignore the Cargo Cult's incessant runway building (objections, convolutions, deflections and obfuscations).
Happy listening!
|
So far all I hear is that different insulating materials, because of their dielectric strength affect the current running through them but there is nothing in the literature that I’m familiar with that explains any sort of permanent change, molecular alteration, rearrangement of the atoms in the insulation in a permanent way to explain "breaking in" of a cable. If anyone has read or knows some actual science behind this, please let us know.
Even the lamest of those, willing to do a bit of research, could pick up an encyclopedia (old as the 60’s-70’s) and find information on Maxwell’s equations(1873), Dielectric Absorption, Poynting’s theorem (1884) and Quantum Electrodynamics (on which we were being lectured in the 1960’s).
"...actual science..."?
Did I mention: "willful ignorance".
|
Time for another rewind:
ie: Inescapable FACT: No one understands exactly how electricity works.
That’s why there’s so much Electrical THEORY.
The number of Wiki-Scientists on these pages, attempting to win the IG-Nobel Prize in Pseudo-Physics, is always amusing.
Whenever some highly educated person actually does discover exactly how electricity functions, they’ll be lauded by the scientific community, will have solved some of the disparities between Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, receive a Nobel and we’ll hear about it.
Newton’s THEORIES were largely superseded by Einstein and Bohr's. Then came Feynman’s. For now; none of you can absolutely prove your statements (theories), regarding electricity, FUSES, wires, or anything else, as regards our systems.
The following articles, read in sequence, illustrate my point:
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/how-einstein-challenged-newtonian-physics/
then:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Forces/qed.html#:~:text=Quantum%20 electrodynamics%2C%20co....
and:
https://bigthink.com/hard-science/an-updated-feynman-experiment-could-heal-the-rift-between-quantum-mechanics-and-general-relativity/
|
Much of the foregoing conversation, only shows that not all Physics courses are equal.
ie: @carlsbad2 -
As a Physicist: to what theory do you lean*, regarding lambda?
* There is NO wrong answer!
Could/would you honestly say, that opinion jives with your Prof's?
Electrical Engineering courses?
FA'GET ABOUT IT!
|
@tomic601 (love that moniker)-
Thanx (I think?)!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
|
I always thought we were supposed to leave cookies!
|
@retrocrownfan -
My point is the same as Paul from PS Audio. Even as a maker of high end gear, he clearly states “nobody hears the signal” and the single most important investment in your system is your speakers, because they create the sound pressure that moves your ear drums.
And yet: Paul recognizes/realizes that, "capacitors and dielectrics" DO change their characteristics, over time and with use.
https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/pauls-posts/the-break-in-myth
Just like an oft copied page run through as a copy of a copy of a copy, each step reimages the original.
...“can you just res-up this 80k jpeg to use on my 40 ft bus graphic?”
NOT the same as trying to increase the size of a digital image, with a limited number of pixels and retain resolution!
An analog musical signal's voltage and/or current is increased, in every gain stage. That's WHY: the more faithfully the signal's innate properties are retained in the process and the cleaner the power (from the wall, cord, fuse and PS), the more faithfully the resultant signal, when it reaches your speakers for reproduction.
More akin to the images of an IMAX, 35mm film being increased in size, to fill the huge screen, on which it's viewed.
If the bulb that produces the light is compromised, or the lens is dirty: the image won't have it's intended resolution, regardless of it's original clarity.
|
@classicrockfan -
Is F=ma one of his theories? I know his theory of gravitation but not sure about his other theories.
The main of the EFEs I'm thinking of is: G+A= kT, but- if the, "a" in your formula is lamda: YES! We're on the same page.
You do realize: that you own Kimber products, already puts you in the, "better cable" klan, right?
Kimber (to my knowledge) has never made an inferior product, or- one that didn't punch above it's price range, as some would say.
If you read my prior post, regarding how I'd suggest a power cable might be designed, you'll note my mention of Teflon dielectric and Litz. Your 8TC speaker cables are a big Teflon dielectric, Litz (braided) cable.
The design has been, "good enough" for a LOT of people, for a LOT of years and why they're still being made.
They're good enough for my driven subwoofers and I could probably live with them on my mains (though I'd rather have 12TC), if I ever had to give up my Big Silver Ovals).
Even Kimber's PBJ will outperform a lot of higher priced cables, IF your appetite leans towards a more faithful signal transfer.
I had Heroes on a couple sources, a few decades back. Tried a number of other of the better regarded brands and have been using pairs of KS1030 and KS1130, for the past 20ish. I just feel they've remained consistent with the rest of my components and their upgrades.
"Do you know what EMI filter does" and so on.
Yes. I've a few decades of electronic repair, restoration, upgrading and building, behind my comments.
One thing even the most inane EE should recognize: however good the filter, the cleaner whatever goes in: the less work the filter has to do and the cleaner the output.
Typically: the first upgrades and/or replacements I address in whatever the component, are in the power supply, because: that's to what you're going to be listening.
I also mentioned that a power supply with a choke may respond less, to a high dollar PC, as they clean up a lot of what makes it through the rectifiers, x-former, caps, etc.
Happy listening!
|
@tomic601 -
As I've mentioned in the past:
Feynman was and will remain, my favorite lecturer (yeah: I'm that old).
He mentioned often (and: I took to heart) his favorite Rule of Life: "Never stop learning!"
For all his genius, he never grew overly confident in his beliefs. The perfect obverse to the Dunning-Kruger sufferer.
ie: “I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong.”
and: “I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything.”
Tesla is probably my favorite innovator, who (despite the incessant, projectile vomit, from his day's naysayers), took the World, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century, with his inventions.
His thoughts:
“Anti-social behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world full of conformists.”
“All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combatted, suppressed, only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.”
Happy listening!
|
@classicrockfan -
Ever use a non-contact circuit tester?
They function because an electromagnetic field is formed around circuitry/a conductor, when a voltage potential is applied, whether an actual circuit is completed, or not.
"I actually want to learn more about the dielectric bias system*.
Review the first paragraphs, of my first post to this thread, for my understanding/postulations, on how *such might work (according to modern electrical theory).
As to whether the MPC wallwarts/system, such as attached to my Main amps' interconnects and power purifier's PC, would make a profound improvement to your listening experience/ears; you're welcome to stop over, if ever in the Indianapolis area.
They're among the easiest things to A/B test on the planet.
|
Your description is not quite right.
What part?
|
|
