Geoff,
Please elaborate, I have no idea how to translate you comment into anything meaningful?
Peter
Please elaborate, I have no idea how to translate you comment into anything meaningful?
Peter
THE GREAT AC OUTLET SHOOTOUT.
Just to satisfy my own curiosity and because of the very passionate debate by some relating to this issue, I have decided to perform a controlled listening test of AC outlets, basically most of the ones suggested in this tread AC Outlets that I could get a hold of. I’m basically putting my own money where my mouth is.
I have procured the following AC outlets, all are new and unused.
Audio Magic NanoStream, $ 69 and WattGate 5266i AC Plug $10
Porter Port by Albert Porter, $41 and TBD AC Plug $ ?
Furutech FPX-G $95, and Furutech FI-11M-G AC Plug $55
Pass Seymour CR6300 Cryo $44 with Pass Seymour 5366XCCV4 AC Plug $10
Teslaplex SE by Synergistic Research $95 and TBD AC Plug $ ?
Hubbell HBL5362-I Heavy Duty Spec. Grade Grande Duplex $16 and HBL5266C AC plug $10
Levitron 5362-W Industrial Heavy Duty Grande, Straight Blade, Self Grounding Duplex $7 and AC Plug Levitron 5266-C Industrial grade $10
El Cheapo HomeDepot Outlet $0.54 with “regular” Cheap moulded power cord $5
Technical Description of the Test:
To ensure that all the outlets will be equally represented in this test they will be mounted in a test fixture evenly spaced. They will all be fed via a single piece of 12 gauge romex cable directly hardwired to a dedicated 20 amp breaker in our main panel. The wire will be uncut when wired between the different outlets - basically simulating a “single run” dedicated line as only one outlet will be energized at any time.
As you can see if have ordered AC Plugs of the same manufacture and grade as the outlets, I have asked the suppliers of the Audio Grade outlets what AC plug they recommend to get the best performance from the outlet, that way there should be synergy within the - connection point - that is to be evaluated.
The AC plugs will be wired with 3x12 Gauge SJOOW about 12” long these will be hardwired to each their own 3 pole 20Amp relay that will be controlled by a PLC (programable logic controller) this to enable remote controlled switching between the 8 different outlets. The control will be programmed so that the next circuit will energize prior to the past one is de-energized to ensure uninterrupted current flow to the system that will be used for the test. The Complete Audio system will be fed from this one test jig, one outlet at a time. The individual power cords for each piece of equipment will be hard wired into a common terminal strip that is fed from the output of the relays. With this setup the ONLY variable is the AC outlet and its associated AC Plug. The test jig with the outlets will be run in prior to the test for at least 24 hours to insure “break in” for the ones that feel that this is important.
I want to run it as a blind test at first to ensure a completely unbiased result. As each outlet is energized it will be represented by a LED indicating that now outlet “A” for an example is energized, enabling the test panel to identify which outlet they deem the “best sounding”. Many of you have stated that the AC Outlet a Audio System is connected to profoundly changes the sound of the Audio System, so it should be beyond obvious to the test panel which one “sounds” the best. Later on the same test jig can be used for testing AC Cables should the opportunity arise.
We will use a Audio System similar to the system I have listed here on AudioGon for the test, it may change a bit by time of the test based upon what I have available at the time. The total current consumption of the system is in the range of 6 - 8 Amp at idle I estimate at this time but a complete listing of the system used, with actual current draw will be published here on this forum, along with the results of the test for those interested. System
The Test Panel:
On December 2nd. we will host the San Diego Music and Audio Guild here at our facility from 2P to 5P. We host that great group of folks here about every two years or 3 years, usually in December so this coinciding presents a great opportunity to do the AC Outlet test as there will be plenty of Audiophiles available for a unbiased opinion. I ran it by the President of the group this morning and he thought it would be a great thing to do along with of course auditioning our demo system in our factory show room, see and hear our new offerings, discuss audio etc. For more information about our facility you can go to our website and take a peak at the video, there is footage there from our showroom as well. Website
Everyone is welcome to participate in this catered event, there will be food and beverage served. Slider Burgers, Finger Sandwiches, Draft Beer and Soft Drinks etc. If you want to attend just shoot me an email so I can plan ahead with the caterer making sure we will have enough for everyone.
If any of you have any suggestions on on how to conduct the actual test, ie how long do you think each AC outlet should be “on” for, how many times the test should be repeated etc. suggestions are more than welcome. Also, if you have any suggestions to as how the test jig could be technically improved, let me know and I’ll be happy to discuss further.
As Always, Good Listening
Peter
I have procured the following AC outlets, all are new and unused.
Audio Magic NanoStream, $ 69 and WattGate 5266i AC Plug $10
Porter Port by Albert Porter, $41 and TBD AC Plug $ ?
Furutech FPX-G $95, and Furutech FI-11M-G AC Plug $55
Pass Seymour CR6300 Cryo $44 with Pass Seymour 5366XCCV4 AC Plug $10
Teslaplex SE by Synergistic Research $95 and TBD AC Plug $ ?
Hubbell HBL5362-I Heavy Duty Spec. Grade Grande Duplex $16 and HBL5266C AC plug $10
Levitron 5362-W Industrial Heavy Duty Grande, Straight Blade, Self Grounding Duplex $7 and AC Plug Levitron 5266-C Industrial grade $10
El Cheapo HomeDepot Outlet $0.54 with “regular” Cheap moulded power cord $5
Technical Description of the Test:
To ensure that all the outlets will be equally represented in this test they will be mounted in a test fixture evenly spaced. They will all be fed via a single piece of 12 gauge romex cable directly hardwired to a dedicated 20 amp breaker in our main panel. The wire will be uncut when wired between the different outlets - basically simulating a “single run” dedicated line as only one outlet will be energized at any time.
As you can see if have ordered AC Plugs of the same manufacture and grade as the outlets, I have asked the suppliers of the Audio Grade outlets what AC plug they recommend to get the best performance from the outlet, that way there should be synergy within the - connection point - that is to be evaluated.
The AC plugs will be wired with 3x12 Gauge SJOOW about 12” long these will be hardwired to each their own 3 pole 20Amp relay that will be controlled by a PLC (programable logic controller) this to enable remote controlled switching between the 8 different outlets. The control will be programmed so that the next circuit will energize prior to the past one is de-energized to ensure uninterrupted current flow to the system that will be used for the test. The Complete Audio system will be fed from this one test jig, one outlet at a time. The individual power cords for each piece of equipment will be hard wired into a common terminal strip that is fed from the output of the relays. With this setup the ONLY variable is the AC outlet and its associated AC Plug. The test jig with the outlets will be run in prior to the test for at least 24 hours to insure “break in” for the ones that feel that this is important.
I want to run it as a blind test at first to ensure a completely unbiased result. As each outlet is energized it will be represented by a LED indicating that now outlet “A” for an example is energized, enabling the test panel to identify which outlet they deem the “best sounding”. Many of you have stated that the AC Outlet a Audio System is connected to profoundly changes the sound of the Audio System, so it should be beyond obvious to the test panel which one “sounds” the best. Later on the same test jig can be used for testing AC Cables should the opportunity arise.
We will use a Audio System similar to the system I have listed here on AudioGon for the test, it may change a bit by time of the test based upon what I have available at the time. The total current consumption of the system is in the range of 6 - 8 Amp at idle I estimate at this time but a complete listing of the system used, with actual current draw will be published here on this forum, along with the results of the test for those interested. System
The Test Panel:
On December 2nd. we will host the San Diego Music and Audio Guild here at our facility from 2P to 5P. We host that great group of folks here about every two years or 3 years, usually in December so this coinciding presents a great opportunity to do the AC Outlet test as there will be plenty of Audiophiles available for a unbiased opinion. I ran it by the President of the group this morning and he thought it would be a great thing to do along with of course auditioning our demo system in our factory show room, see and hear our new offerings, discuss audio etc. For more information about our facility you can go to our website and take a peak at the video, there is footage there from our showroom as well. Website
Everyone is welcome to participate in this catered event, there will be food and beverage served. Slider Burgers, Finger Sandwiches, Draft Beer and Soft Drinks etc. If you want to attend just shoot me an email so I can plan ahead with the caterer making sure we will have enough for everyone.
If any of you have any suggestions on on how to conduct the actual test, ie how long do you think each AC outlet should be “on” for, how many times the test should be repeated etc. suggestions are more than welcome. Also, if you have any suggestions to as how the test jig could be technically improved, let me know and I’ll be happy to discuss further.
As Always, Good Listening
Peter
Showing 24 responses by pbnaudio
Jea48 The test jig will be made on a 4ft by 2ft piece of 3/8" thick Black Acrylic (a piece I have sitting waiting for a purpose) the outlets will be 6" on center from each other. As far a cover plates i was thinking Stainless Steel - although the low grade SS they use for covers is slightly magnetic, so I may go with the nylon ones, don't know yet. The outlets and the indicator LED's will be mounted on the front of the plate the PLC / relays / terminal strip / wiring etc. will be on the back, these will be mounted on a DIN rail. Break-in will be for a couple of weeks I'll run my two mono blocks at home via the jig with all the outlets energized in parallel to ensure they all have the same break-in time. The amps pull about 800W at idle so that will be about 100W through each outlet or 800mA. The test would only be meaningful if the system that's used for the test is left on during the entirety of the test, allowing for a seamless switch between the outlets. Good Listening Peter |
Doc, When you find it send it our way and I'll make a slot for it, I'll return it upon completion. Thanks Peter PBN Audio |
Hello Geoff To keep prying fingers out, I'm not so sure my insurance company would like me to leave live points exposed at my place of business with 60+ folks around :-) Also I plan to make it so it can be used for PowerCord comparisons later, so I'll put some effort into making it look presentable Good Listening Peter |
Rja, I'm still contemplating how to conduct the actual test, I'm hoping that someone that have some insight on this will contribute to this tread. As far as an outlets compatibility with a certain piece of equipment, maybe, don't know. First things first, the test is to determine if there is any difference at all between the outlets. John, What a great idea, I'm definitely going to incorporate the "ByPass" option into the test jig. Good Listening Peter |
Hello John Thanks for the great input here is a list of the AC Outlets to be used in addition to the "by pass" you already suggested. I had to source a new PLC so i now have the possibility of including 12 AC Outlets in the test. 9 slots are taken these 8 plus the bypass. Audio Magic NanoStream, $69 and WattGate 5266i AC Plug $10 Porter Port by Albert Porter, $41 and HUBBELL HBL5364VBK AC Plug NEMA 5-20 Male Black Valise $15 (Alberts recommendation) Furutech FPX-G $95, and Furutech FI-11M-G AC Plug $55 Pass Seymour CR6300 Cryo $44 with Pass Seymour 5366XCCV4 AC Plug $10 Teslaplex SE by Synergistic Research $95 and TBD AC Plug $ ? Hubbell HBL5362-I Heavy Duty Spec. Grade Grande Duplex $16 and HBL5266C AC plug $10 Levitron 5362-W Industrial Heavy Duty Grande, Straight Blade, Self Grounding Duplex $7 and AC Plug Levitron 5266-C Industrial grade $10 El Cheapo HomeDepot Outlet $0.54 with “regular” Cheap moulded power cord $5 Thanks Peter |
Hello Albert, The Porter Port should be on its way I had one of my friends order it for me as I DONT do paypal - don't know how many of these you ship - but it is the one you shipped to San Diego last week. I'll take your suggestion on the cover plates, I was going to use Stainless because of durability and looks but as mentioned before they are slightly magnetic, but then again so are most of the outlets which got here today, but I'll save that for the description of each outlet as I formulate the test and its findings. Good Listening Peter |
Hello Drubin Actually a complete system consisting of 2 Mono blocks, a Preamplifier, a DAC /Transport, a Phono Preamplifier and Turntable will be hardwired to a terminal strip, so its not just one component, is an entire system. The switch between the outlets will be seamless ie. one outlet is engaged prior to the previous one being disengaged allowing the system to be constantly under power during the entire test. You input regarding the actual physical conduct of the test is greatly appreciated and how it will eventually be carried out will be accurately described prior to it being performed. I will also start a systems page for the test sometime this week, I'm still waiting for two outlets to arrive. Once this is up I will post a link here, I will try to document in detail the entire build up process of the test jig and the associated equipment. As always, Good listening Peter |
Hello Tom Thank you for your suggestion but I will use the vinyl ones which are relatively in-expensive and non magnetic. Most of the outlets are actually magnetic in one way or another but I will give a very detailed description of each on the forthcoming systems page for the test. Good Listening Peter |
Mr T That indeed is a good question that I hope to answer with this test - if you have the time read the post that lead to this and you will get my take on it as well. My position is that if you have a good connection all the way from the breaker to the transformer in your component the make model etc. of the outlet its connected to will have little if any impact. However many of the others involved in the discussion were/are quite passionate about their outlets - hence the test. Good listening Peter |
I'm hoping to get the shootout done with the help of the San Diego Audio and Music Guild the middle of December, they are schedule to meet at our facility to audition the New XmaX kit we designed for SB Acoustics along possibly a new Speaker to be offered through our Liberty Audio company. Stay Tuned Peter PS If you want a Afterburner included send me one, I will send it back to you after the test. |
I have a dialog going with Darren of Avatar, seems that we will get a Afterburner outlet included in the test too. Audiotweak, possible, a brief glance at the posts by the 4 posters you mention seem to have a common tread to them, negativity. If that is the case them maybe the poster should take his/her own advise. ---- 07-16-11: Audiofeil Let the guy spend his money as he chooses and mind your own business. Which probably needs more attention anyway. ----- Good Listening Peter |
Hello Jim You bring up some valid points but what we will analyzing is the outlet by it self and all the outlets will have the exact same conditions under which they are to be tested, thus the "best" outlet will surely shine trough. Vibration - The outlets are to be mounted on a 3/8" piece of acrylic plate - I truly do not believe that this will have any more vibration than the Drywall in your house to which an outlet is normally mounted, actually probably less. Daisy chaining - There will be none, all the outlets will be connected to a terminal strip with the exact same length of wire. To the other side of that terminal strip a piece of 12 gauge romex will be routed to our main panel where it will be connected to a 20A dedicated breaker. I had originally wanted to feed all the outlets with a uncut piece of wire all the way back to the breaker but their connection points prevent this form happening. Relay Contacts - Is a valid concern but I have decided to actually hardwire all the components but maybe the Transport to the terminal strip that is fed from the output of the relays bypassing both the AC fuse and the IEC inlets - the elimination of these additional contact points more than makes up for the inclusion of the 20 Amp relay contacts that will switch the outlets in and out. It is in my opinion FAR more important to be able to have a completely seamless switch between the different outlets to properly evaluate if they change the sound or if they don't. The powering down, changing wires, powering up etc. induces many more variables than this test do. Remember only ONE outlet will be engaged at any time but the 2 second overlap between the outlets to ensure that all important seamless evaluation of them. If this test concludes that the AC outlet have little if any effect on the performance of a system, your post is already the first attempt of discrediting it of which I'm sure there will be a few because you probably will not like the outcome of it - IHMO Cordially, Peter |
No unfortunately not - looked for this one a few days ago - where did you find it ? Anyway this came to be of interest again a few weeks ago under a tread about Furutec AC outlets and I did resurrect the "shootout" I'm in need of a PLC program for a Allen Bradley PICO Controller - specifics of it is here https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/6567 Anyone wants to take the time to write this program go ahead and we will conduct the test - I'm sure I can get the San Diego Audiophile group out to our facility for this - usually Hamburgers and Beer bribes work :-) Good Listening Peter |