The Evolution of Modern Jazz

'Smooth Jazz' is not Jazz. Louis Armstrong said: If you can't dance to it, it ain't jazz. So we know where this leaves the free jazz, smooth jazz and avant-garde 'jazz'. Jazz was started in New Orleans whore houses lets not forget that. Its that kind of music. I love it. But noise is still noise i.e. ornette coleman, later day coltrane etc...

"Dixieland" jazz may have began in the whore houses of New Orleans, which is why they called it "Dixieland"; but modern jazz bagan in New York with Bird and Diz, two names that are foreign to the Dixieland proponents of jazz. They began with "Be Bop', and I have never seen anyone dance to Be Bop. Not only did Dixieland predate modern jazz, but it was also geographically and culturally different.

"Pops", as Lewis Armstrong was affectionately referred to by the new musicians, often went to see them perform.

There would have been no need to 'name' Jazz in New Orlean 'dixieland' or anything else, if, some other music in some later time and place had not been 'named' a different type JAZZ. Then we have to be able to differentiate. It would be interesting to know who 'names' all this stuff. I find it hard to believe that diz and bird are foreign to any jazz fan or player in New Orleans or any other place. Maybe you are thinking of the 'tourist trap' dixieland bands. Can a person dance to BEBOP??? Absolutely!! Check out Dee Dee Bridgewater's tribute to Horace Silver CD. Does not mean you can dance to EVERY single bebop tune, but if it makes you move, you can dance.
But your overall point is well taken. I looked in my all music Jazz guide for info, they have three or four pages of very small print entitled 'what is Jazz' and many styles of Jazz listed. I stopped counting at 50. So much for that.
I do believe that the types are Jazz are created to accomadate the players. They seem to find a niche for everyone. If you can't play, don't worry, we'll just call it a different 'kind' of Jazz. I received 14 Jazz cds yesterday from amazon. Only one of the artist is still alive, Herbie Hancock, and it was his first recording for Blue Note. Sums up my attitude towards 'modern' Jazz.
None of my points apply to Wynton Marsalis. I bet you can dance to his stuff. Check out him and clapton together.
Thanks for your post.

I have Dee Dee Bridgewater's tribute to Silver. Here's another Silver on Youtube you might like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOu5iWhexE0

Thanks for the link. I have almost all his stuff. Great playing. I had a big smile of my face while listening, and this is to a youtube link on logitech speakers on a computer. Just illustrates to me, It's the music, not the gear.

"Gearheads" don't even know what music is, they're too busy listening to their gear.

In this last phase of "The evolution of modern jazz", I was attempting to illustrate how people around the Globe had incorporated our "jazz" into their music. "Calcutta Cutie" is an example of how a group in India incorporated the music of Horace Silver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvQ7BMws1M-

Strictly speaking "the evolution of modern Jazz" should lead to a discussion about "avant-garde jazz. However, we are in fact talking about the influence (or synthesis) of "Jazz" on "world-music" (i.e. "world-jazz")

You could also discuss Jazz influence on classical music (e.g. Ravel, Strawinski, Gershwin), all sorts of "Jazz" renditions of classical compositions (mostly Bach). Then there is of course "Fusion". Certain rock jambands have a distinct Jazz influence (try Dave Matthews band life), and of course guys like Sting using Jazz saxophone.

In summary, Jazz is so pervasive, this thread could have gone anywhere. I personally find the "world-jazz" the most intersting, because this is closest to my musical interest.

Edorr, I very much like your point of view; you lead and I'll follow.

It is possible for a genre of music to 'progress' to the point where it has absolutely nothing in common with the original source. I put 'avant-garde' and 'free' jazz in this category. I got off the train after 'A Love Supreme.'

In regard to "avant-garde" and free jazz, can you say NOISE. Meanwhile, back at the ranch; I came across some unusual gems. The first one is "Arab Jazz Jam", the second one is "Basem Darwish Egyptian Jazz spirits"; these are some intense musicians who illustrate the best of "World Jazz".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZebxd-G3o8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAX43gYkY-w

Wow, I just now saw this thread - it was started in August when I was temporarily without internet, I see. Great thread, guys, there are several things here I will have to check out. Someone mentioned Jean Luc Ponty earlier - I went to school with his two beautiful daughters for a year. Clara Ponty is a very talented pianist who has made a couple of albums, though her stuff is more New Age rather than jazz. She has performed many times with her father as well. Don't know if any of it is on youtube or not, and I'm too tired to look right now.

Of course the major influence on Jean Luc Ponty was Stephane Grappelli, don't think he was mentioned earlier in this thread - certainly the greatest jazz violinist.

Welcome aboard Learsfool. I'll look for Clara Ponty. Stephane Grappelli is one of everyone's favorite jazz violinist.

As you may have noticed, we progressed a long way in regard to the evolution of modern jazz, and it was fun. Although we, what's left of us; me and Edorr, are into world jazz; you can jump into the discussion anywhere you choose.

I found Clara Ponty; she and her "New Age" music are both very beautiful.

One last point:

In my opinion all improvised music is not JAZZ. Can music be seperated from it's roots/history/culture and remain what it is? Jazz is an American art form, and we define it. Others have been very successful in playing Jazz, but true inovation has come from the U.S. I know about the afro-cuban and all the others, but it all came from this country. Stephane Grappelli, a great player, was well aware of this and stated it many times. World Jazz is no more a valid concept than 'world Country & Western' or 'world blues.' It's ours because the social climate and events converged to allow it's creation, and they can't claim it. the 'everyone and thing is equal' folks nowithstanding.

While someone can claim title to a song, no one can own a genre of music. Although "Jazz" originated here, the many "fusions" with music from around the world have made it much better. As far as the word "Jazz" is concerned; on one hand it's too confining, and on the other it's too amorphous to have a definitive definition; therefore, I would concede any argument in regard to the word "Jazz". For those who want to claim exclusivity to the word "Jazz", I say "let them have it". The music, however; is what we hear and feel around the world.. Let's call it "The free peoples music".

As someone once stated, "Free your mind, and the rest of your body parts will follow".

Taking your argument to its logical conculsion, would mean that Armstrong, Ellington, Coltrane and all the rest actually played 'world Jazz' since they played on planet earth.

I distrust anything or any concept with the word 'Peoples" or 'World' in it. Reminds me of the commies, or the whacky so-called governments in the third world.

Let me put this trolly back on it's intended track. "Latin smooth Jazz" is the title of this youtube link, it offers romantic guitar and beautiful photography.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlLpNQCCLf4

Next we have Duke Ellington in a very unusual mode. This music is at the very roots of "JAZZ", it has the flavor of Harlem and Africa, plus the pure "JAZZ" sound of the Duke of Ellington; I give you "Afrique".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Wdvo6Qvz8

'Let me put this trolly back on it's intended track. "Latin smooth Jazz" is the title of this youtube link, it offers romantic guitar and beautiful photography.'

I would agree this as an example of so-called 'Smooth Jazz' or elavator music. Sort of superficial. Dose not demand the listeners undivided attention. Try listening without looking at the pictures. The pictures were great.

Orpheus10:
'Next we have Duke Ellington in a very unusual mode. This music is at the very roots of "JAZZ", it has the flavor of Harlem and Africa, plus the pure "JAZZ" sound of the Duke of Ellington; I give you "Afrique".'

I recently purchased this CD. I like it very much, however I am not aware of any or at least hardly any contribution to music that is indigenous to Africa. I have several CDs by african artist, but they are just Africans singing 20th century pop music. I sometime think we associate music with different parts of the world and different cultures, based upon the soundtracks of hollywood movies. Thanks for the links, esp to the Duke.

When you hear this music, you can feel "Stimela", the coal train that took the miners into the belly of the beast. This music is as good as it gets when it comes to telling a story, the music say's things no spoken words could ever say; "Stimela", Hugh Masekela.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgYhTTZXP4g

Nice song. Masekela has a very distintive voice. I first became aware of him back in his 'grazing in the grass' days. That was two centuries ago, while serving with the US Army in Germany. Hugh does not seem to have aged a day since then!!! I have several of his CDs, they always put me in a happy mood. I would make one comment:
The message of the song seems to say that, working in a coal mine was some sort of crime against humanity. No tougher than in West Virginia, Ohio, or Pennsylvania.

Here's one of my favorites. She was a very talented artist who left us much too soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxuAZictJ4

Tia Fuller "Decisive Steps" a saxaphonist's album. I highly recommend and listen to often. I was gifted a Mack Advance copy, Wow!! Then given the "privilege" to meet her Quadruple WOW!!!!