Mrjstark, I agree with your 3rd choice, any experience how that compares to the DCS Scarlatti stack? |
Mmakshak, what would you used as a transport? The Oritek is a $1175 pre/dac, not sure how that could be on the same level as todays state-of-the-art... |
2bred, that's a beginning, that is if you live in Europe ... I'd be thrilled to host something after a little room treatment in my abode! |
I recently listened to the latest one box EMMlabs CDSA SE layer, at $9995 MRSP it blew away my Accuphase DP-77 clearly (in a Dartzeel/Harbeth/Jena labs system). If the Esoteric I want does not top the EMMlabs box I may go for this one too. |
711Smilin, I fail to understand how a Denon 3910 could be playing in the super high-end market and be significantly better than Emmlabs , even "modified". Denon themselves have a high-end player (the DSD-SA1 retails for about $10,000) that is certaily very good but not up to the latest Emmlabs SE gear. I don't think this player is marketed in the USA yet. Couldn't APL modify the Emmlabs CDSA SE player...would love the hear how much further they could push that!
Regards
Henry |
Kentb, did you try Emmlabs and/or Metronome? |
The Oppo is a great player for a low budget system, once you've heard a real high-end system Oppo's, modified or not, are not an option, period. |
Coming up on the 7th anniversary of this thread, we are all curious what you actually got in the end...
Jazze22, what do you say? |
"01-05-08: Wham1000
Forget the CD player. That's history!"
That's what they said about vinyl too...and look what happened |
Where and when can we have someone do a shootout on a worldclass system between the following:
- APL NOW3.0GO
- Esoteric P-01/D-01
- Accuphase DP800/DC801
- Naim CD555/555PS
- EMMLabs CDSD SE/DCC2 SE
- DCS Scarlatti Transport/DAC/Clock
- Zanden Model 2000/Model 5000 Signature
- Metronome Kalista Transport/Power supply
Missing anything? |
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Gary, you're right, when you think about it, there are quite a few very good CDPs around. Some would argue that the Reimyo should be included too as well as the Spectral...
A shootout on a modded top player (like Esoteric X-01) by say APL, TUC and GNSC and others could also be an interesting event... |
Muralman1, thank you for posting this interesting link. It was written in the mid 1990s and is somewhat outdated vs current transport & DAC designs. Nonetheless, the conclusion that bigger bit rates and higher sampling frequencies lead to better sound, as I indicated above, does not necessarily lead to better sound. |
Redbook - in audio - is the name of the digital standard that was set when the CD first came out in 1980 as an invention of Philips, a Dutch company. The resolution is 16 bit with a 44.1Hz sample rate, so equivalent to 1411 kbps.
If you want to know more here is a wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_%28audio_CD_standard%29
Happy reading! |
Milen007, that's because the world today generally is not interested in higher quality sound but more interested in a downloadable, compressed, portable, convenient way to enjoy music. So all these higher quality formats only find their way to hardcore audiophiles. Btw many RBCDs sound as good or better than high-rez recordings out there, it all depends on the label and their recording process. Anyway, all media will be available for a long time to come, however high rez music server systems are the way of the future for the audiophile. But here is just an idea about the quality gap that exists expressed in bits (8 zero's or one's) processed per second:
Downloads = typically 128 or 192 kbps
RBCD 16/44.1 = 1411 kbps
High rez CD 24/96 = 4608 kbps
SACD 1/2822 = 2822 kbps
SACD 1/5644 = 5644 kbps
LP = higher than SACD
HDCD and XRCD are based on 16/44.1, but with greatly improved ording techniques that make them sound better than most standard RBCDs. SACD would be considered the next real step up, but the marketing strategy failed and the world was going to less vs higher resolution...
Go figure! |
Milen007, DSD is a fundamentally different way of reading the bits of a disc than PCM. The laser is thinner and the bits are smaller so hence can read more data. XRCD is a recording process, I think owned by JVC, that optimizes the recording and transfer via supreme wordclocking tools. Its a bit technical here, but it fundamentally increases the timing accuracy, which benefits soundstage clarity, micro resolution, tonal definition, providing a more analog listening experience. Diana Krall's Look Of Love is a good example, I have RBCD, SACD and XRCD and the XRCD sounds the most analog of them all, and most satisfying.
I agree with Muralman on the fact that its not really the format, but the recording and transfer process that defines how good it sounds. If both come together than DSD well recorded can sound out of this world, for example the Blue Coast Records ESE sessions is an excellent DSD recording. |
RBCD encoding allows up to to 22 Khz maximum specification ... |
Any 32bit recordings you want to share with us? |
... that was my point, 32 bit processing capability without 32 bit recordings out there ...
We'll get there eventually, but anyone boasting about their DAC being able to process 32bit is getting a little ahead of themselves IMHO! |
Bigpond, plenty of 24bit software out there, for years. Just look at acousticsounds.com you'll find DVD 24/96, HDAD 24/96 and 24/192. Couple of hundred titles. It's a niche format like DSD/SACD, but nothing 32bit out there yet. |
Gryphonaudio, with all respect to the no-doubt wonderful sounding Mikado CD player, this Australian article does not explain how it is using the off-the-shelve AKM 32bit DAC in its design. Btw, this DAC has been around for the most part of 2008 and implemented before by others.
I do like the Mikado modularity concept, and if it could handle SACD I would be seriously tempted ...
(If you are a dealer or manufacturer pls disclose) |
" my opinion is shaped by the listening of digital filtered players at my location."
What players would those be, Muralman1? |
Thank you Shadorne for some much needed humor after the past week of posts to this thread ...
Its clear to me, after listening to Mr Muralman's "collectors" disc Lavin that the man needs to get out his room and listen to some other systems and the latest digital out there. No truncating of Couvoisier's piano note decay, vague harmonics or blanching tones on my system, and I can compare to a real piano in my room. Maybe some more fun music too, notwithstanding the Niggli's and Courvoisier's talented improv recording. Still, thanks Muralman for pointing out a great small label called Intakt Records. Maybe I'll try some of their other stuff.
Tvad, I think it was mentioned before, but IMHO the Oppo 980H for $169 is the undisputed BEST CD PLAYER FOR THE MONEY. So this is a value for money question. Not an audiophile CDP by any means but probably the answer to this threads question... don't you think?
Muralman, if you want to discuss the benefits of NOS CD players you should start a separate thread. |
Yes, what is the definition of value ...
But "value for money" suggests a return on investment calculation. Maybe you can look at it this way. If hypothetically, as the originator of this thread suggested, a $10000 CDP would give you 100% musical enjoyment, the Oppo certainly wouldn't score 1.7% of enjoyment, maybe somewhere around 60-70%. So if you could buy ~65% of maximum enjoyment for 1.7% of price ... wouldn't that be a damn good value for the money?
It doesn't help us audiophiles, who are paying stupendous amounts to get that last illusive percent of often perceived improvement... |
Tvad, beers at the bar it is then! Cheers. |
What happened to Alex P? Did he vanish from planet earth? |
Tvad, no intentions, just some crazy rumors going around at CES |
