The Absurdity of it All

Most are a lost cause, not because of their reduced hearing, which is okay since there is little musical content about 10KHz, but because they refuse to consider that maybe, just maybe, their perception is fallible.

Or it means you have never done bias free listening.  Some people are far more susceptible to suggestion. Reading what tweakers right, it is pretty obvious.

How about being so dogmatic you bring up measurements, even though they were never mentioned, only ears.

Why, oh why, is there so much projection done on the part of the flat earth naysayers? (i.e. ones who reject basic science). They are the ones with their panties in a bunch, not the hobbyists (you mean the ones that fight tooth and nail at every opportunity to use their eyes for listening? those ones?). They are the ones who preach dogma, not the other way ’round (dogma, like claiming things don’t work that do, or that they are infallible, that dogma?). They are the ones who want consensus on their terms and brook no argument. (those awful people and their awful terms, like reliable, and repeatable, and ears only. horrible horrible people).

I have a hobby. Audio. Yours appears to be darts. Blindfolded.

@Prof said it correctly, it is quite amazing that you see label everyone else as dogmatic or this or that or "tiring", and yet you don't look at yourselves with any introspective. 

It's an opinion, just as yours is. There is as much to support his opinion as yours. Geez

Really, there is not, but you do you. You seem to like trolling me to tell me I am wrong or misguided. One day you may back that up. I respect Mahgister. I may not agree with him, but at least he makes an honest attempt to justify many of his writings. What's your game?

The best ears in the world are old musicians and especially healthy orchestra maestros of 80 years old...

Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at?  I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.

One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims, then things will never get better and that they are part of the problem.  Maybe some cables make an audible difference, but it will be an actual scientist or engineer that proves it, characterizes it, communicates how to replicate it, why it works, and how to take advantage of it, not the present lot of cable jockies and their wannabee hanger ons.

If you're ears aren't what they once were, your best friends are increased dynamic range, focus, detail and a more defined space between the notes."

Except you don't possess the same ability to hear dynamic range you once did, and turning it louder, only gives temporary relief but hastens the decline. You likewise will never get the high frequencies back, no matter what you do. Without the ability to hear as quiet of notes, and inability to compensate by cranking it even louder, you have now lost the ability to hear detail too, and putting more into the music, does not allow you to hear more if you are already at the limit.  Refined space between the notes is interesting, that would be more an acoustics things, fast decay to reduce instantaneous complexity, because your brain is also a bit slower.


Don't worry, it is not all bad. Music is mostly under 10K, and almost all the acoustic cues for position are at even lower frequencies. Best thing about older, is usually less distracted and more time to relax and enjoy and to the point, actually listen, not just hear.

Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.

No, it is not an opinion, it is a universally accepted fact that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age in normal conditions...

Then why do they almost always do their best, most memorable work in their earlier ages, at least the ones who bring forth new interpretations on classics?  One could equate your statement to nothing more than good pattern matching. They have conducted said piece so many times, and with so many orchestras, that they instantly recognize when something is out of place, at least to their liking. However, we are talking for the most part what could be somewhat gross variances. However, their experience cannot overcome very real physical deterioration. They won't hear those quiet passages quite as well, or how well a quiet note tails off.


But lets walk back your statement I don't think it is universally accepted that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age. I think you will find that statement hard to support. I think what you will find, is that the best conductors, are the best, no matter what age they are at. The remaining conductors at an advanced age are remaining, not because they are better with age, but because they are better period, and always have been. Did know there are studies into how long conductors live. They seem to have long average lives.

clearthink1,211 posts04-21-2021 11:12pmdletch2"One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims, then things will never get better and that they are part of the problem."

What we hear are real substantiated claims

If you don't know what the word substantiated means, I don't think we can progress any further in this discussion. Good day.

I listened some costly tweak product on youtube marketed by a well known company and it is EVIDENT that there is an audible effect....

Was that the one where he placed a large metal object (effectively) right against the microphone? Well duh! (not to you), of course that is going to make a difference!  Or is it the one that had the shelved output that would not correlated to the communicated changes? All this is readily evident when you do correlated analysis of the audio samples. Not everything is as it seems.

These stores use the same old pitch that what they sell is the best, lol.

I always love the ones that try to convince you that they or you can pick out the sonic character of a source or amp or preamp in their store, in their room, and not with your speakers. Priceless.