Thanks to everyone for all the helpful suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'll post a follow up after the final decision! |
I am in the process of actually setting up my Teres, at last. Finally got my HHG equipment stand on Friday so I could complete this set up. Because of space constraints I had to put all of my audio components on one stand instead of having the turntable on its own stand, as is recommended. So I have a 4 shelf stand plus the turntable on the top; the stand is made out of hardwoods and granite. All of this is on a wood floor, too. The stand itself actually weighs 350 lbs, but it is still not as massive as some people consider adequate. I am hoping for the best. It sure doesn't seem to have any sway or reaction to people moving around in the house, but I don't have my tonearm/cartridge set up as yet, so haven't tested everything with a record playing.
Anyway, my situation isn't quite like yours other than not being ideal. I also have the Model 160 as opposed to the higher end models you are considering. But, though I have little experience with tonearms, so you can take this recommendation with a large grain of salt, I highly recommend the Morch DP6 tonearm. I heard it with a Model 255 and it was wonderful, and Chris was also highly pleased with the combo. I bought it from Chris the same day, with a 12" armwand. I will be using it with a ZYX R100H cartridge, their basic model (all I could afford) and it is also has great synergy with the Teres & the DP6.
Good luck, Encyclopediabsh. Let us know what you decide to do and which Teres you decide to get. They are all things of beauty!
Holly |
.
Encyclopedia,
.
My two cents:
.
All the posts above are logical. My suggestion would be for a Teres 265 or 320 and definitely a Schroder 2 or Reference. The Schroder arms are just incredible. Get a Reference and you are done for life. You need a stable platform for sure (home made might save money to allow for the better turntable and arm).
.
Good Luck,
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
When attempting use of a wall mount rack, be careful before drilling holes and positioning other associated equipment (regardless of table). As Schroder mentions, room nodes can be an issue - a serious issue. I built a wall rack using 1000lb rated Stanley brackets and a 3" rock maple base. I positioned where I THOUGHT I'd be okay and attached straight into wall the studs using SIX 3" lag bolts. The floor was a poured concrete slab. As one increased gain, the air borne resonances caused a terrible rumbling mess. Touching the wall near the supports - rock solid, not so much as a trace of vibration. Further out on the base - different story. Moral? The rack can be mounted like a pillar and while you can eliminate floor vibrations and all but eliminate wall vibrations, those air borne forces are much greater than one would think. A two foot repositioning solved the issue entirely, but the six holes required filling and repainting in the process. |
Hi Encyclopediabsh,
I own a Teres 265 sitting on a Salamander Triple 30. Both purchased for exactly the same reasons as you. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
All the sentiments expressed above are true. The Salamander is a poor audio performer. As Agaffer said, if I tap anywhere on it while playing a record the thump is clearly audible. In fact, I can easily hear the hinges through the speakers when I open/close a door. So I don't thump on it and I leave the doors shut!
Is this setup ideal? Hardly. The Salamander is unquestionably the weakest link in our system. Does it still make stupendous music. You bet. (Lugnut and Frank: to give you some perspective, despite the Salamander our system as a whole is tighter and *very* slightly more resolving than what we heard in Miami, and nearly as macro-dynamic. We just acquired the same power amp you heard there. It is a wonder.)
Our Salamander also sits on a rather shaky suspended wood floor, which doesn't help of course. To isolate it somewhat from floor-borne vibrations there's a heavy-duty sorbathane hemisphere under each of the Salamander's eight feet. Certainly not what I'd like to have, but it does seem to help. FWIW, the TT does not audibly mistrack unless I literally jump up and down right next to it.
Would I prefer a concrete floor and a solid, massive stand? Of course. I know I'd get stronger dynamics and a lower noise floor. Neither that nor a wall mount is an option, so we get by.
Issue #1
Many of the advantages of the 320 vs. the 265 are independent of the support. Its greater mass provides a superior resonance sink. It has a better, quieter motor and a more massive and stable platter. While I certainly agree a better stand would be beneficial, I wouldn't let the Salamander influence the choice between these two particular TT's. OTOH...
Issue #2
A 265/Morch DP6 will walk all over a 320/Expressimo Rega. I wouldn't put a modded Rega on any Teres except a 150 or maybe a 245. The 160, 255 and above all deserve a better arm. So if all-wood is mandatory I think a 265 + DP6 makes great sense.
However, you should follow ASAP with a good pair of stepup trannies and a LOMC. HOMC's and MM's simply don't cut it at this level. A good LOMC and trannies will set you back another $3K or more, but a 265 and DP6 are certainly good enough to take advantage of them.
If you can sell your spouse on the 255 then I'd go for that plus a DP6. This would leave more money available to put toward a better cartridge. |
I can't comment on the Teres tables, but I can tell you that I have one of the Synergy S40 racks in my HT system. I would not site a TT on one of these, at least not long term. These racks move alot, I mean alot! Even with everything tightened down all. As Lugnut said, I wouldn't pass on the table because of this stand but you would want to do something more stable even for a suspended table. |
I owned the 265 and now own the 320. While I believe that the TT is the most important part of the analog chain, in your case I would go with the 265 and the Schroder rather than the 320 and the Rega.
I sold my 265 to a friend that has it on top of a wood cabinet similar to what you describe. If you lightly tap on it you can hear the problems with this type of setup but, it really isn't that big of a deal. You can work something out later. Meanwhile, just don't tap on it while your listening to music :). |
Hello Ecyclopediabsh, hi Patrick!
Whichever Teres model you(or your shmbo) decides to purchase, any of them will only perform as well as the support allows it. First and foremost make it rigid and non-resonant. You might benefit from mass loading the base/rack, but this depends upon the floor the whole assembly is sitting on.
A wall mounted rack is usually an excellent way to avoid the "swaying" phenomenon described by outlier, but if your wall is made of drywall you might open another can of worms(find at least one supporting beam). Then it is always possible to put an additional isolation device between the wall-mounted rack and the base of the table.
One last thing to consider when going for a wall rack. You will be stuck with the location. If there is a room node right at that spot, then moving a conventional rack by a foot or so often cures the (feedback/bass)problem. Moving the wall-mounted rack, well...
Buy/build the best support you can get, a 255/65 with a Moerch DP6 on a stable rack will outperform the same table with a Schröder No.2 on a shaky platform.
Cheers,
Frank Schröder |
While I don't own a Teres I am intimately familiar with them. You do need a high mass stand though but I wouldn't let what you are using stop the purchase. The wall mount would be okay especially if it were of welded construction. Regarding racks, there are numerous ones to copy online. I built a rack for Audiogon member Vetterone. Do a member search and take a look at it. Adding doors and sides would have been easy.
I have strong opinions on the arms. Buy a Schroder. You'll never replace it unless you are going up Franks food chain. The entry level Schroder at $2200 with a carbon fiber arm wand is one of those "best buy in audio" pieces. You can mount a $10k cartridge on it and it will do the cartridge justice. In fact, we did that at a tonearm/cartridge shootout in Miami last month. I must admit the Triplanar is a stellar performer too.
I'm sure you would be happy using the Blackbird with any of these arms. I'm also sure that if you can afford it you will later get a better cartridge and a different phono stage. The Teres/Schroder combination will tempt you too much to upgrade.
I'll let others comment on the 265 vs. the 320. Vetterone has the 265 (plus Triplanar and ZYX Universe) and on the stand he uses it would be the end of the road for me. I've not listened to the 320. The 340 is bettered by the 360 enough that I would step up to the 360 if those were my choices. |
Thanks Outlier - appreciate your comments. I really like the looks of the 255 as well, but need to do some selling at home (the lead/acrylic platter). I looked a long time to find a rack that had a door - so the stereo could be hidden. Maybe there is a high-mass, more stable rack available that has a door? |
Hi, I can chime in on your first question. I think the Salamander stand you have probably won't do a great job of supporting the Teres. That's my gut feeling from having worked with support for my evolving teres (form 135, to 245 to 255). I think you may encounter two issues. First is that the platform on top of the salamander simply isn't very high mass, and the Tere designs really seem to benefit from heavy, inert support. Second, having the Teres positioned high up on a rack exposes the table to microscopic horizontal swaying, which may impact tonearm tracking (that's a problem I encounter with my setup).
If you do need to support the Teres is such a configuration, consider a wall mount that looks like the table is mounted on top of the stand, but is in fact a wall mount. It looks like a few owners have successfully done this with good results. Then, the height issue (horizontal vibrations) becomes a non issue, and you can apply a heavy mass support under the table. I would do that myself, only I'm renting the house I live in just now, so don't want to do too much DIY which will impact the walls.
Finally, just wanted to mention, the 255 in person really looks great. I had a 245 and was thining I may miss the seamlessness of the acrylic spinning, and thought the lead in the 255 may look a big garish. However, the 255 really is a beauty, and seems to better balance a modern look (the platter) with a more traditional, refined look (the base). Still, I know that's all subjective ;-) |
