Tekton Double Impacts

I too await Teajay's 300B review as I'm still trying to decide which way to go regarding an amp. For now I'm really enjoying the MZ2 but would like a tad bit more texture, air and warmth......qualities SET amps seem to excel at. For now I'll be content with rolling different tubes in the MZ2 to see if I can get those qualities. I have NOS TungSol round plates and KenRad 12SN7's along with Mullard 12AT7's on order. Hopefully some combination of them with or without my RCA's will get me what I'm looking for and I won't have to bother with an amp. If the NOS tubes don't bring me that SET magic I'm looking at the Triode Lab FFX with Hashimoto output transformers for $3800 US. I'm sure the 300B Frankensteins would fit the bill but they may not be within my budget this year......unless I happen to come across some used. Unlikely though as they don't seem to come up on the used market much. 

The great thing about the DI's is that they give you so many amp options. The not so great thing about the DI's is that they give you so many amp options :)

Teajay,
I eagerly await your impressions of the 300b mono blocks headed to you for review.  I believe that at a certain level of execution it is not a matter of "best" but different presentations of excellence amongst various types of amplifiers. 

I can imagine both the 2A3  and 300b sounding superb driving the DI yet each distinctly different (as one would expect).  At this juncture it becomes a question of individual taste and preferences. Teajay,  no doubt that you're having a genuine ball listening to all of these exceptional amplifiers. 

The Double Impacts certainly seem to offer a legitimate alternative to horn speakers for those desiring to own lower powered SET amplifiers. This is a good development. 
Charles 

Teajay,

I'm with you that horn based speakers aren't my cup of tea either and I started with Khorns and McIntosh,30'yrs ago,and single driver speakers even though there is some very good ones have shortcomings that I find are hard to live with for the long haul.

Charles,

You are so right it does take a very fine speaker to allow this level of fine discrimination amongst very nuanced amps and that certainly includes solid state of various types as well.


I'm still shocked and amazed every single day listening to my DI's,
I can see myself being quite satisfied for a very long time and probably will even buy a 2nd set for my 2nd system.I listen at diff. times of the day and quite sporadically in the summer months,and it would be very nice to have a solid state and tube setup at all times.

I promised Eric that I would write a owners review for his website and I'm still working on it,right now it's way too long and I need to condense it down,Writing is not my cup of tea either'but I do my best.


Kenny.

Hey Kenny,

As I stated in my response to Charlies, either as a pure listener or as reviewer I'm not a great fan of single driver or horn designs that usually are the partners for 45 or 2A3 based SET amplifiers.  Therefore, I had a lot of different 300b/211/845 based amplifiers because they could drive the speakers I like.  Now, with the DI's I have the freedom to have fun with these great tubes and SET designs because you can drive them
with virtually no watts at all!

Hey Charles,

I have had many discussions with listeners regarding which gives most of the magic of David Berning's ZOTL circuit, the 40 watt amplifier or the Micro-ZOTL line-stage.  After trying the Micro-ZOTL with all kinds of  solid state and tube amplifiers it always brings it's virtues ( speed, a very special type of overall dynamic, great color, and a terrific sense of space/3D imaging) to such a level, that when it is removed the system sounds somewhat "dead/whimpy", loses color and sounds much more 2D overall.  Now don't get me wrong, I bought the 40-ZOTL and believe that it's a great amplifier, but my point is that much of the unique sonic qualities of Berning's design can be gotten with the preamp and then you can add any flavors to it with your amplifier.  

And as you said Charlies, to hear these nuances it takes a reference level speaker, plus the ability to be driven with very little watts to use many of the low watt/SET designs, without resorting to horn based speakers which are not my cup of sonic tea. 

Teajay,

It's very interesting to hear about the triode labs 2a3,they do make some very solid gear.I had There prototype 7591 based pp a few yrs back that was built all point to point with James outputs and choke with a very heavy duty pwr transformer.I have also owned one of there first 300b stereo designs.I kinda surprised in your position that you have never tried the 2a3.

I have had a couple diff. 2a3 based amps over time and I always found them to be kinda in the middle between the 45 and the 300b,
meaning they can have the midrange and inner glow like the 300b but with more extension on both ends and then also combine the clarity,punch and dynamics that the 45 has but with more pwr.

The 2a3 is just a wonderful tube in my opinion and my very favorite Dht with the right speaker and the DI is the one.I only have one tube amp right now it's the Yamamoto A09 which is a 300b,which I will have to try eventually with the DI's.

I definitely will be getting a MZ2 in the future and can't wait to try with all kinds of pairings.

Enjoy the music,

Kenny.

Teajay,
I find it interesting that you prefer the 2A3 SET over the LTA Micro ZOTL sibling power amplifiers particularly the 40 watts version that impressed you so thoroughly during your review of it. However as you note,  good quality  SETs offer some unique and elusive musical attributes. I don’t believe you could go wrong with either a high quality 2A3 or 300b. It takes a superior speaker to allow this level of fine discrimination amongst very nuanced amplifiers.
Charles

Hey Guys,

After many hours of listening I have come to the conclusion that my favorite combo, on all types of music, of course through the DI's, is the LTA MIcro-ZOTL and the Triode Lab 2A3 SET amplifier.  As I have have shared before the Micro-ZOTL delivers the speed/dynamics and holographic imaging and the Triode Lab gives the mix the beautiful color/tonality and image palpability that a great SET based amp can offer.  I'm very impressed not only with the performance of the Triode Lab piece but its build quality and what they charge for it.  It will get a great review from me in the future.

I will be getting a pair of mono-block SET 300b amps in for review this coming week and then will be able to decide if I prefer a 2A3 or 300b based amplifier for my taste on the DI's.  I had never tried a 2A3 tube in any of my systems before and as stated above am quite smitten by what it does.  Historically I have always loved good 300b amplifiers, so I'm quite curious about what any differences might be on the DI's.

All this experimenting would never had been possible without the unique aspect that you can drive the DI's with virtually anything you want including "flea watt" amplifiers without losing ultimate DB levels and dynamics!   

Soundsrealaudio,
The Impacts were released just prior to the DI's and Eric informed me of identical sound quality, except in a slightly diminished quantity. I have owned the Impact's since last November and have described the performance in the Tekton Impact thread if you would like the pertinent information. 

willsw

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear you won't have a presence at LAAS. Would love to listen to the Electron/MZ2 combination.  Unfortunately, living in San Deigo makes that a little difficult!

nick

@willsw 

please get the DI's in the shop so I can come by and listen. I want to buy a pair but I would love to get in a listen first.

Yes they do check the website for details and they make one called the brilliance which is the model down from the doubles.

What size room do you have?

Kenny.

Thanks, Willsw. I missed the statement in the review about the three outputs (RCA, speaker, headphone) being connected in parallel, which of course would not normally be done in a higher powered amp. So, yes, driving a sub and a separate power amp from the RCA jacks via a pair of splitters, or alternatively from a second pair of RCA jacks installed as an option, should work fine.

Regards,
-- Al

I am not sure I need a double impact. Do they make a single impact? 

Al, he states that almost all (he doesn't say which were not) measurements were taken from the RCA jacks, which would be the preamp outputs. As the outputs are wired in parallel, the output impedance should be 2 ohms, as are the headphone and speaker outputs.

I've seen many irresponsible things done in with connections my time at LTA but I've never seen an MZ2 damaged from what's going on at the output. 

Willsw 5-26-2017
Regarding two pre outs/splitting the output, the output impedance of the MZ2’s outputs is very low and shouldn’t have a problem with two loads to drive. From the Stereophile review’s measurements section: "The output impedance was 2 ohms across most of the audioband, as specified, increasing slightly to 2.35 ohms at 20kHz."

Willsw, thanks, but those measurements (which I presume are from this review of the microZOTL2.0) pertain to the speaker-level outputs, not to the pre-out RCA connectors which were what was discussed in regard to splitting (or, alternatively, adding a second set of connectors). Specs and/or measurements of the output impedance of the pre-outs don’t seem to be available, but I would expect it to be MUCH higher than 2 ohms.

Regards,
-- Al

nicks25,
Well Pleased AV has decided to go with a different amplifier pairing for LA and will no longer have the MZ2, so we will unfortunately not be present at the show.

Regarding two pre outs/splitting the output, the output impedance of the MZ2's outputs is very low and shouldn't have a problem with two loads to drive. From the Stereophile review's measurements section: "The output impedance was 2 ohms across most of the audioband, as specified, increasing slightly to 2.35 ohms at 20kHz."

We are still waiting for a pair of Electrons for the listening room (the DIs would be a bit too big). I'm curious to hear the MZ2 power the speaker on its own, but I'm even more interested in hearing the ZOTL10 paired with it. 

Hi mac48925 and Charlies

The unit I'm reviewing is the one that still is up with a picture in tube amps for sale here on the GON.  I guess it is somewhat of an unique model because of the James transformers and how they setup the 6NS7 tube section.

Charlies, could not agree with you more regarding where to put your money regrading SET amps.

Teajay,
I’m really enjoying and appreciate your listening impressions, I understand exactly what you’re referring to. As you’ve noted previously the ZOTL MZ 2 is excellent driving the Double Impacts and one could easily live with this match. Yet the SET amplifiers you’ve tried present that "meat on the bone" and improved tonal texture and color that makes the sound more palpable and realistic.

It takes an exceptionally good speaker to exploit this additional musical information and nuance. Example, the DI allows distinction to reveal the Triode Lab 2A3 is the superior SET compared to the Opera amp (no slouch by any means). Better quality transformers, parts and power supplies will do that.

This is why I would advise anyone interested in a SET to go for upgrade options when possible. In particular I’d not choose to save a few dollars by settling for the lesser output transformer, it’s role is too important. Same philosophy regarding the power supply.  The more stout/robust the better the amplifier and I believe this point is magnified with SET. 
Charles

Teajay

Are you reviewing the Classic or FFX version? Both look nice but the FFX is quite a bit more expensive and probably what I’d want. I’m very happy with using just the MZ2 but after listening further I can see where a bit more texture and warmth might be nice. I have some Ken Rad and Tung Sol round plate 12SN7’s on order in hopes of obtaining a little more texture but the idea of a SET amp to add that meat on the bones you refer to is appealing. The Coincident Frankenstein 300B SET Monoblocks are on my short list and this Triode Lab 2A3 SET looks nice also. I appreciate you sharing your results and I’m in total agreement with your accessments regarding the DI’s and MZ2. The ZOTL 10 with the new power supply is very intriguing, especially with the special synergy it has with the MZ2 but from what you’re saying it sounds like a SET amp brings even more musical magic to the table.

Gentlemen,

Wanted to share that I'm into about nine hours of listening to a Triode Lab 2A3s SET amplifier I have in house for review for hometheaterreview.com.  Of course this amplifier is no were close to being fully burn in.  Yet, being driven by the Micro-ZOTL preamplifier it makes the DI's sing beautiful music.  The very inexpensive 2A3 based Opera amp is still a killer in its performance/price, however this amplifier is qualitatively better on every parameter.  The combo of the Micro-ZOTL and the Triode Lab keeps the dynamics/speed of the linestage and kicks up the color/timbres and adds more 3D imaging which I easily hear through the DI's.  I'm also impressed by the part/build quality of this companies piece of gear.

Yes Nick, I did go with the upgraded power supply. Have fun listening to the Tektons and LTA stuff. Hopefully you'll be able to hear both together as they sound great together. 

Well, I couldn't wait any longer and rolled the 40's RCA tubes in the MZ2. Wow. I as told the LTA stuff reveals a tubes true character and makes tailoring its sound quite easy. The stock RCA tubes were very nice but maybe a bit bright and forward for my tastes. The 40's RCA's are just a bit more sweet, warm and textured. I've been playing Hope Waits debut album non stop since 6 am to burn the amp in and with MZ I'm not tiring of hearing it. The deep, black background allows every nuance of the recording to reveal itself which sucks me in every time I sit down to listen for just a few minutes......and before I know it I've listened to the whole album......yet again! No listener fatigue here. 

mac48025

Thanks for the feedback on the MZ2.  I am going to the LA Audio show and will listen to the Tekton and will visit with Well Pleased Audio who will have the MZ2. 

Was wondering if you went for the upgraded power supply?

Thanks,

Nick

Mofojo 5-25-2017
Does the MZ2 only have one set pre outs? Can another be added if so as an option? If I was not happy with the one watt I would want to run the MZ2 as a preamp and still have an extra preout to run a JL sub.

If a second set of pre-outs is added the two sets would almost certainly be wired directly together inside the rear panel, as opposed to being driven by separate output stages. Consequently I would expect the results to be no different than using a good quality "hard y-adapter," such as this one from Audioquest, on the single set of outputs.

In both cases (two sets of pre-outs or hard-y adapters) those results may or may not be good depending on the output impedance of the pre-outs, the input impedance of the sub, and the input impedance of the power amp. And also, if the output impedance of the pre-outs is high, on the lengths and capacitances of the two sets of cables that are involved.

My belief is that the negative comments that are often seen about splitters are often and perhaps usually not due to the splitter itself, but are due to the inability of the component providing the signal to be able to drive the two sets of load impedances and the two sets of cables that are involved, with good results.

The unbalanced input impedance of some of the JL subs is 50K, which would be encouraging, while it is only 10K for some other models, which could very possibly be a problem depending on the output impedance of the pre-outs and the input impedance of the particular power amp that would be used.

I would suggest that you start by asking LTA what the output impedance of the pre-outs is, at 20 Hz as well as at the mid-range frequencies (such as 1 kHz) at which output impedances are usually specified. If the pre-outs are capacitively coupled the 20 Hz output impedance will probably be much higher than the output impedance at mid-range frequencies, and could result in roll-off of the deep bass content of the signals provided to both the sub and the main power amp.

Regards,
-- Al

From Mark when I asked a similar question of him:

"We can provide up to two more sets of RCA outputs. There just isn't room for XLRs. We can provide a set of rca to xlr adapters for $50 made of very good Eire and connectors."

Having XLR was/is necessary for me, which is why I did not go forward and am waiting for future products that may be a better fit.

But with everyone singing it's praises.... :)

Charles,

This little one watt wonder defies all logic. It doesn't make sense that the MZ2 can not only produce sound levels equaling my Torii, but levels exceeding it. I usually listen in the mid 70 db's and can obtain levels in the upper 80's before the Torii starts sounding strained. With the MZ I can reach levels in the mid 90's with peaks over 100 without any signs of strain or distortion. Not only that but the MZ is dead quiet with inky black backgrounds that pull you into the music. The MZ is so pure, allowing every minute detail to come forth. Tone is perfect. After just a few hours with it I'm enthralled by it. Will adding a SET or other amp with it be better yet? Terry thinks so and he was dead on regarding this amp being able to drive the DI's. I'll enjoy the MZ alone for a while before thinking about adding an amp.

powerglide,

your experience with the Impacts reminds me of my first reaction when listening to my Enzo's......they blew me away and I spent all night listening to them. The DI's took things to another level but I was already exposed to Tekton speakers so I was ready for what I was hearing. This MZ is a similar experience to my first Tektons.......eye opening and jaw dropping.

mofojo,

definately, I'd love to have another DI owner hear them with the MZ. Let me know when you're in town and we will set something up. We can see how well the MZ will head bang, but I'm guessing you'd be better served adding the ZOTL 10 for that. The MZ was designed as a headphone amp but people realized just what an amazing pre it is......and now some of us are realizing it's also a great amp with HE speakers. Therefore it's limited to one output. You could contact Mark at LTA about a possible second output. 

To those with the MZ2 using as an amplifier.... 
Do you feel that one watt does justice to rock music at 90db average volume from 8 ft away with the DI? 
Does the MZ2 only have one set pre outs? Can another be added if so as an option? If I was not happy with the one watt I would want to run the MZ2 as a preamp and still have an extra preout to run a JL sub. 
Mac, if I am over in your neck of the woods possibly in the next couple of weeks would it be possible to hear your system? I travel to Detroit often for work. 

Hello Mac,
You put a huge smile on my face as last November  one week before before the DI's were released I purchased a pair of Impacts and had an even stronger reaction to my first listening session than you did. As mentioned on the Impact thread, I will never part with my MZ2 and Impacts combination. Substituting the stock tubes with some quality NOS tubes adds an even higher plateau of sound quality in my opinion. You will be entranced as additional listening time with a wider scope of music passes.
Enjoy to the fullest extent!
Listen intently.

Hey mac48025,

CONGRATS!  It is amazing what the Micro-ZOTL sounds like as an amplifier driving the DI's.  

As far as Kenny's question regarding how the Micro-ZOTL sounds like driving SS amps is it brings its virtues to the overall sound when I used it with great SS pieces like Accuphase, Pass Labs, and Perla Audio.

Just like the DI's the LTA piece is great and it's hard to believe what it costs. 

Charles,

Does'nt the MZ2 sound like it is quite powerful,
just proves to me that all amps are'nt created or rated equally.

I once used the mini torii with my druids,but it would run out of steam if pushed and the Yamamoto had better bass and drive.Both amps having very good strong tubes.

But on the other hand I am still amazed and tap my toes and get goosebumps listening to my DI's every day,they have no right to sound as good as they do.

Kenny.

Mac,

Sounds like you are enjoying your MZ2 right out of the box,
keep us posted on how you like it.

I have it at the top of my shortlist and It's cool to hear that 1 watt is a good one.I used to pwr my Zu druids with a Yamamoto A-08s that uses the 45 tube and is 1.5 watts.

I would like to know how the MZ2 would work with about any solid state amp.

Best of luck and happy listening,

Kenny.

Hello Mac,
What is intyriguing to me is that you found the Decware amp to be perhaps not quite enough in some circumstances for the Double Impacts.  Yet the lower power MZ2 (1 watt) is very sufficient with driving the same speaker. On paper the Decware has much more power but reality/listening tell a different story. Think about it,  1 watt from a 6SN7  which is universally thought of as a preamp signal tube.
Charles 

So my Linear Tube Audio MZ2 arrived today and while its way too soon to properly review it, my initial reaction is one of complete shock. I can't believe the quality and level of sound this little amp produces. It easily drives the DI's to 95+ db levels in my room and that's plenty loud for me. I really planned on getting an amp to partner with the MZ2 but I'm thinking I don't need to. I'll at least be in no hurry to to get an amp. It's not fair for me to evaluate its sound quality so soon, but so far so very good. 

Terry, thank you! The MZ2 not only is plenty of amp to drive the DI's but together they make what might be the best value in audio. 

I'll update my impressions regarding sound quality when it's had time to settle in. Suffice it to say it's sounding very good already. 

David,

I think you will be just fine with the audience cables,I've used some of their pwr cables and they offer a good solid cable for the money.

I've been a avionics tech at a major airline for 30 yrs,so working on most electronics doesn't really intimidate me.

Kenny.

@kdude66  and @333jeffery Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. Good to see that both of you give a nod to Marc Tunis.

BTW Kenny, this is one of the most elegant ways I have seen the topic broached! :)      "I quess I will bite on this cable subject,after many years chasing the latest cables I have reached a firm opinion that as long as my system has decent cables and sold connections it really doesn't matter so much the only real differences are price."

My workshop is going to be completed at the very end of our home renovation. Not having a work area set up for my bikes is 'killing me' and that comes first. So the diy route will have to wait until I am fully set up to handle it.

The Audience cables, courtesy of the lending library, will be here on Friday. I've only had two other 'higher end' speaker cables in my previous system. One was terrific, the other not so much. I've been using Audio Art Speaker Cables for quite sometime now, and I've been very happy with their performance, especially so when I consider their value.

The problem I have run into is that there are so many options and multiples of that in opinion. So the only way I can sort it out is to take a chance on word of mouth from those I trust and then run them within my own system.

Thanks.

The speaker cables I use on all my setups are from an Ebay seller named Amplifier Surgery. They are 8-gauge silver plated copper with Deltron plugs. Nice sound and very economical. My interconnects are from Marc Tunis, he does good work.

Lance,

Now Eric hasn't released the SE to dealers only yet so no real specs yet.I think they will be an all scanspeak driver with lwr efficiency probably around 90 to 92 db and might have better crossover components.

I would like to hear a pair even though I'm happy with mine and the Ulfberhts would just be to big for our room.

The SE's should be priced around 6k which is quite reasonable I think.

Kenny.

Does anyone know what differences there are with the new SE version? I don't see anything on his web site but have heard some chatter here about this version.

David,

My pair of Di's had only one set of terminals,and I did'nt want to add another pair so I carefully drilled a hole below the existing terminals and soldered them directly to the woofer crossover which I upgraded the cap and resistor anyway.You would have to remove the bottom woofer and the woofer crossover is mounted horz. on the crossbrace.The mids and tweeters have there own crossover mounted vertically on the sealed cavity.I did buy a upgraded pair of di's and I don't see any reason to change the internal wiring though.

I did change all 4 woofers to all black ones and I used eminence beta's instead of the blue alpha's, just a personal preference.

I will change some caps on the tweeter and mids crossover,I just haven't got to it yet.

Kenny.

David,

I quess I will bite on this cable subject,after many years chasing the latest cables I have reached a firm opinion that as long as my system has decent cables and sold connections it really doesn't matter so much the only real differences are price.

I biwire my di's with a single run of Supra 3.4 on the woofers and a single run of Supra 2.0 on the top end and I have a pair of clear day double shotguns that I have used as well the only difference to my ears is maybe a little more inner detail.

My interconnects and pwr cables are from a fellow  audiogoner named Mark Tunis,he makes speaker cables as well,I haven't tried any of those though they look really good.

I hope this helps you,


Kenny.

Throwing this out there again.

Any advice and recommendations on speaker cables? Those that you are happy with currently with the DIs or other Tekton speakers, or those you have been pleased with in the past?

Thanks.

Mac,

I believe the 1812's are Eric's top speaker for HT,
even though we all know any of them would be great,just pick your size.

I would like to hear a pair if I ever got the chance.

Kenny.

Good one David! 

Not ot just the Ulfberhts, but the DI SE also. The 1812's are seemingly getting lost in the shuffle. I wonder where they fit into hierarchy?

DIs-orientation. Pretty much order of the day, for me. :)

Imagine what big brother Ulfberth will sow.

Yes, extended listening to the DI's can cause disorientation 😜 And yes, Charles is correct, I have an MZ2 on the way. 

My LTA MZ2 will be here tomorrow along with my NOS RCA 12SN7's and 12AT7's. Working with both Mark at LTA and Andy at Vintage Tube Services is such a pleasure. Both are consummate professionals with abundant product knowledge, offer great customer service and bring audiophile grade products to the masses with their very favorable pricing. 

The one watt/DI experiment begins tomorrow night for me. I'm pretty much figuring I'll be buying an amp soon.....but maybe, just maybe the MZ2 will surprise me and offer all the volume I need. 

Charles, thanks for pointing that out! I'm enjoying the DIs way too much! : )

I have been considering a speaker cable change-up. Cerious Tech has been under consideration. Decided to go mainstream and use the Cable Cos. lending program to evaluate the Audience Au24 SX.

Any thoughts on Audience or other speaker cabling? Thanks.

@charles1dad  You must be getting very excited! Looking forward to hearing more about your single watt explorations.