Tekton Double Impacts
mac48025 The Pioneer M-22 runs quite hot. I can touch the heatsinks but I can't leave my hands on them for very long. The amp is 6" tall and I have it in an 8" space on my rack. The rack is open on all four sides so I think the ventilation's is fine with 2" of space above it. @kdude66 Yes, 30 watts of Class A power seems to be enough. I still have my doubts about 1 watt though! If I put my Freya preamp in JFET mode (tubes bypassed, no gain), I can crank the volume all the way up and it is not painful. It's louder than I would listen to, but not way too loud. The tube gain mode provides 14dB of gain. Vidar has 27dB of gain. I am not sure how much gain the M-22 has. I can't find that spec anywhere and I don't know how to measure it myself. The more I read about the Pioneer M-22, the more I find that it was considered one of the best amps of it's time and is still considered a phenomenal amp. Based on my experience with it and the DI's, I have to agree. There seems to be a nice synergy there. |
Thanks for the info!! The M-22 has 23.8dB of gain. Really? Vidar has 27dB of gain. That makes sense based on how little I have to move the volume knob to match sound levels between the two amps. The interesting thing is that Vidar, even with the preamp off, outputs a noticeable hum in the speakers. The M-22 has zero hum when the preamp is off. I figured the gain was the issue. But the gain difference is not large enough. 3.2dB less would be quieter...but not enough quieter to eliminate the hum. I can only speculate that Vidar has an issue that the M-22 does not. |
I looked up the math so now I know how to calculate amp gain. All you need to know is watts, load resistance, and input sensitivity. Two formulas to solve and you are all done! Thanks! http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain |
As far as power goes, it's interesting that my 30 WPC Class A SS amp, the Pioneer M-22, seems to drive my DI's just as well as my 200 WPC Class AB SS amp, the Schiit Vidar. Even though the Vidar has a 3.2dB more gain and 170 WPC more, the volume control is like 30 minutes to the right. In other words, if the volume is set to 12:00 with the Vidar, it is at 12:30 with the M-22 to get the same sound pressure level. I wouldn't say that 200 WPC is overkill....after all, the speakers are designed for up to 400 watts. But it sure seems like 30 WPC of Class A power is enough! |
Since I have ventured out of the Schiit universe with my Pioneer M-22 purchase and been very happy with it and how well it works with the DIs, I am wondering if there are some better options for a tube preamp than Freya. Requirements would be control via a remote and balanced inputs would be nice (but not required) since I think Yggdrasil is better via XLR out than SE out. Budget? Let’s go with $3K or less. A preamp that uses 6SN7 tubes would be great. Thoughts? |
@david_ten Oh, I am a long way from making a preamp decision. I am not going to rush this. Now that I have the Pioneer M-22, the gain of the Freya preamp in tube gain mode is no longer an issue. I have 40 6SN7 tubes which is why I was looking for a preamp that uses them. I can always sell what I have, and break even, if I decide on a preamp that uses different tubes. The 2 channel system sounds really quite incredible now and I would be more than content if I am unable to improve upon within my self imposed budget constraints. I'll probably buy a used preamp at some point to compare to the Freya. That way, if I don't like it, I don't lose too much when I sell it. There were a lot of suggestions...some, while great, are quite expensive. |
@wschee, I decided to not replace the woofers. After talking with Karma it was decided that I would let the speakers go for a week to see if the indentations went away. After a week, the indentations didn't go completely away but were hardly noticeable unless you looked close. When Karma called back a week later, just as she said she would, I told her that I was comfortable with them they way they were. The speakers sound wonderful and I didn't really want to risk changing that sound. Plus, I really don't see myself selling the speakers any time soon. I am a satisfied customer. |
All I can tell you guys is that my solid state 30 watt per channel All Class A Pioneer M-22 sounds noticeably better than my solid state 200 watts per channel Class AB Schiit Audio Vidar amp. The Vidar bass is outstanding for a $699 amp. But, the bass is better with the M-22. I listen to a lot of classical music and my max volumes do see an occasional 100dB because of the dynamic range. I have never had the M-22 have a problem with headroom. I wish it had a meters so I could tell how much power is being used. I don't see how extra power would change the sound if you never use it.... |
@grey9hound I don't need the preamp to have a DAC, either. I want a 2 channel preamp that is only a 2 channel preamp. I've been listening to my Pioneer M-22 amp all night. I have been playing different renditions of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherazade" and some classic rock. I have to say that the M-22 and the speakers work extremely well together. I can't imagine an amp that would sound better. The depth and fullness of the sound is so musical yet there is great clarity and detail. The soundstage extends beyond the speakers. Today proved to me that the DI's are fantastic speakers. I've never heard anything like what I am hearing in my listening room. |
@david_ten Well, I certainly hope so! I don't normally buy products like a Don Sachs preamp without a proper listen. Especially when each one is custom made and essentially non-returnable. I bought the Double Impact speakers based on what I read here. I scoured the 'net looking for feedback on Don's preamp. I could nothing negative! The lead time appears to be 12 weeks right now. I guess this will be a Christmas present to myself. |
@jcarcopo, I looked at the LTA MZ2 and talked with some people I know and trust from another forum about it. Based on testing and critical listening, they are not fans of Berning's ZOTL design. My main point of research became the deHavilland UltraVerve 3. Then, I was made aware of the Don Sachs preamp by someone here and on another forum I frequent. I could find no reviews, professional or private party, that were anything but positive for these two preamps. I feel like I could not go wrong with either one. The Don Sachs seemed like a better design overall and used more of the 6SN7 tubes of which I happen to 20 quality pairs. I like the fact the preamp was highly customizable for my specific setup. Now I just have to wait for a while to get it. That is the price you pay for buying a custom made product from a person that has a decent amount of business. I have already been told that the cap selection made for my preamp will require 100 hours of burn-in to start sounding right. Fun.... |
If I were to get a tube amp, I would have to look real hard at this: http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20kt88%20tube%20amp.html |
Depending on the gain of your preamp and amp, I still think the DI’s need close to 30 watts of quality power to sound their best. A friend brought over a First Watt SIT-2 to try with my speakers. It sounded great at lower volume levels but my Pioneer M-22 outclassed it at normal listening levels when listening to classical music. If I were buying a tube-based amp, I would have to give a hard look at this one: http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20kt88%20tube%20amp.html |
@grannyring How much better are the Eminence Beta 10a woofers and Eminence Beta 6a 6.5 inch midrange drivers compared to the stock drivers? I guess I asking if replacing them as a first step is worthwhile at all or doing you need all the other mods to hear improvement? What are the part numbers/name of the stock drivers anyway? |
When I was a kid, my dad would take me out to the Mojave desert to ride dirt bikes with a bunch of his police cronies and their kids. McQueen was a frequent rider in with the group. I didn't know he was famous until years later when I saw him in a movie. In that desert setting, he was anything but anti-social and never had a "don't bug" me attitude. Probably because he was just one of the guys and treated that way..... |
I am looking at this amp: http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20kt88%20tube%20amp.html I already have his line stage coming! |
I have not posted or even read this thread in a long time. I am glad to see it survived that period of strong "negative Nancy-ism". It sure is interesting to see the new products from Tekton and how they are being received. Anyway, I am now using the following chain: Roon (sonicTransporter i5) PS Audio DirectStream w/Bridge II (Ethernet input) Don Sachs Model 2 6SN7-based line stage (balanced input) Don Sachs Kootenay 120 KT88 tube amp (65 watts per channel) This setup sounds absolutely stunning with the upgraded Double Impact speakers. I get incredible detail without any digital harshness and the soundstage has width, height, and depth. The bass response is phenomenal with this amp. It is much stronger than the Pioneer M-22 Class A solid state amp I was using but is tighter and more defined. I am still VERY happy with my speakers!! Those Encore speakers sure are interesting though! |
@david_ten Thanks! Yes, I thought about buying the sTi7 DSP version but I don't need the horsepower. At least not yet! I wouldn't have bridged the Ethernet anyway as I like to keep the Roon core in another room separate from my audio system. My switch does a great job of blocking noise on the Ethernet port used by the DAC. I am finding that the DI speakers do better with 65 wpc versus 30 wpc. In fact, I tried some of the SET amps discussed in this thread and while I found the mid-range to be sublime, I found the low end and sometimes the top end lacking. I prefer the sound I am getting for the Don Sachs Kootenay 120 push/pull amp. The bass is the best I have have ever heard as is the top end. On balance, I don't know that I have heard a better overall sound top to bottom. What are you using these days for an amp? |
Nice list of amps! The Kooteney 120 uses KT88 tubes. I am not sure why Don calls it a 120. That is one nice integrated amp! I could afford the price of admission but don't think I would ever spend that much on a piece of audio equipment. I am at a pretty good place right now. I am concentrating on listening to music and filling out my CD collection now. Have fun! |
