Speed, the thing about HT is the levels are set with test tones. Or you can do it by ear. Either way the levels are adjusted based on actual output volume. Nothing to do with the amps, how powerful they are, or what impedance they are. Totally separate issues. You could use an 800 watt amp for the surrounds, an 8 watt SET for the mains and a 300 watt for the center and be fine as long as your speakers sensitivity matched up with the power gives you the volume you want. Even if you use a multi-channel amp still it makes no difference because its the input volume level that's adjusted when you set your surround and center channel levels. So regardless of the speaker impedance or sensitivity you will simply turn the levels up or down until they match they way they're supposed to. Now if you are worried about the sound quality from the different amps matching with the Bryston and whether or not you will notice that is one you will just have to try and see. Million dollar by the way, anyone so dim they can't see that's an expression not meant to be taken literally, don't encourage them. If they're dumb enough to get on my case over measly million dollar speakers just imagine how enraged they'll be if they find out about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-qAFZAR3pc |
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tuberist- It never ceases to amaze me how Tekton threads bring out the crazies. I hope Chuck continues to enjoy his new loudspeakers and has fun. I find it difficult to post original threads because of all the attacks that seem to occur very frequently and it’s becoming tedious. I like the forum for info I can obtain and use but I think I’m about done with this group. A lot of angry people here and I don’t need them. Not only Tekton. The same group of bullies attack all over the place. There’s some threads that are little more than the same few people trading barbs back and forth all day long. Their leader racked up over 23k posts and now with him gone instead of reconsidering the wisdom of senseless alienating truculence they seem to have doubled down as if competing to be the next Captain Irrelevant. It would all be good harmless fun except for the fact there are others like yourself who they are successful in bullying into silence. Rest assured that’s exactly what it is. Cowardly little bullies with lots of time and no intellect to think of anything better to do than play silly little word games. In less than 3 years on this forum I have learned about HFT, ECT, PHT, DBA, PPT, TC, and am currently in the process of learning about a couple more new things. The sad part is virtually all the people I was able to learn from are completely or mostly off the forum specifically because of the reprehensible behavior of the same 18 bullies on my permanent ignore list. A lot of the best stuff is taking place off-line, simply because so many of the best people cannot stand the Hateful 18. So that’s another one they got wrong- its them. They are the problem. Not us. Important we keep that straight. |
Case in point. Person with nothing going on, nothing to say, even less reading comprehension, yet strangely compelled to post .... nothing.
Meanwhile, back with the guy who actually does have Moabs, started a thread for those who have or want them (as opposed to a thread of random rambling nothingness) and has been listening to them a whole lot, and is only more impressed as time goes by.....
Toe’d out a bit more, to where they focus about 3-4 feet behind my head, the sound is a bit more open and wide but also a bit less deep and enveloping. Its a small thing we’re talking about here but I really like depth and envelopment and so will probably be tweaking them back in a bit. Not to where they were, but close. It really is amazing how great they sounded the very first place they went.
They still are under 50 hours actual music use. People talk about these being so revealing of any and all upstream changes. So true.
For some time now I have had a certain routine. Turn everything on to warm up. Play XLO demagnetizing tracks. Play a warmup side. Play something better. Then spray and demagnetize every few sides as the night goes along.
Each of these seemingly minor little tweaks delivers its own sonic payoff. Not big, but there. Just like as the night goes along the sound continually improves. Just like the sound of the Moabs has continually improved. It is now at the point where their level of improvement as they continue to burn in is merging into the range of these ongoing cyclic changes.
Its pretty sweet. And right on time. Because this weekend....
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raysmtb1-
I use Tekton 4-10 subs, two of them. I shake the entire house sometimes.
They are $800 each. There’s picks on my page of my Moabs and 4-10’s. If I knew then what I know now I would have skipped building my DBA and got the Daytons and four 4-10's. |
randym860- I have an svs sb16 ultra that produces plenty of bass. I would fear for the structure of my home with 2 of them. And no my home is not dilapidated. I do hope people realize, when talking about so many subs, that we are not talking about more and more bass. We are talking about more subs meaning each sub puts out less bass. We are talking about the combination of them all together being much more smooth, faster, more articulate, and going deeper. Each additional sub allows all to be turned down to a lower level while still delivering the same total volume level. This also means much greater headroom. This is what I’m talking about when saying the Moabs have great bass yet still benefit from a DBA. The combination of four (or more) subs allows the bass to extend so smooth and even and low its able to believably recreate the low frequency ambience of the recording venue. No other system of bass reproduction is capable of this. Not in my experience anyway. Nor any of the guys who have DBA. We all say the same thing. Consequently, what happens is pretty much every recording, even ones that seem to have no discernible really low bass energy, take on a more enveloping sound. The soundstage doesn’t just extend left and right more, like when you hear something coming from way off one way or the other. Its not like that at all. What it is, more of a feeling of being in a much bigger space. As if you’re not even in your room any more. It feels like you are in there. That is what I mean by envelopment. Being surrounded. Immersed. Its very cool and addicting and only with a DBA. Notice no one without a DBA ever mentions this. Instead they say things like I get plenty of bass from my one sub. There’s a reason for this: They aren’t hearing it. If they were they’d never stop talking about it, because its just about the coolest thing in audio. |
Hey MC, when you feel that they are pretty well burned in, please share some more descriptions from a few tracks. Sound stage, dynamics, coherency etc?
They are. Pretty well burned in. That was the last two nights, the last several posts even. Sound stage is more influenced by fine toe adjustments. I like them toed in a bit more than most. Not a lot, but some. Dynamics are and have been awesome from the very beginning. Ditto the smooth even flat response. Just got off the phone congratulating Eric on being such a genius designer. Most coherent speaker yet. Close your eyes, its not even like a speaker at all. Certainly not like a towering great big one! They do large scale bigger and more believably than the somewhat smaller Khorus, but also do small scale more believably intimate as well. Last night my standard Year of the Cat the sax sounded more like sax than ever, the piano had more of the complex resonance of a real piano. Each note on a piano is three strings, and they are tuned individually. Its one of those things tells you its a real piano not a recording, and its way more real now than ever. The electric guitar solo at the end really shines. Probably most impressive is the degree to which all these things are rendered so clear and distinct from each other. There's recordings like Ronstadt with Riddle, Sinatra with Ellington, Satchmo King Oliver, where the vocals seemed fine but a lot of the accompaniment was sort of buried down in there somewhere. Not any more! I'm inside there now, applying fO.q tape, eCards and Mats, just taking a break. Mods are hard work. Okay back to it. |
its three AM. Do you know where your audiophile is?
😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️😁😁😁😍😍😍🔈🔈💕🔈💕💕🔈💕🔈💕🔈😂😂😂
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The drivers came out easily. Immediately little details started popping out and got me excited enough to call Eric. Along the way of course I had to apologize for the BS he's had to endure from some of the people on this thread. I looked in through a port and was surprised at what I could see. The Hateful 18 took this and ran until it sounds like I said he's selling a cardboard box. That's an exaggeration. But not much. Fortunately Eric gets it, he's seen it all before.
Another thing we talked about, I want to share information. I've just gotten more performance out of my Moabs yesterday than anyone has a right to expect from any speaker at any price. I am not kidding. You would not believe. Well mahgister would. Frank. Not too many others. Tough. Its true, and I say what's true, and let the chips fall where they may.
Today the chips fall on the Hateful 18. I was already a bit torn about providing people with a how-to that might reveal a lot of what Eric has worked so hard to earn. Especially with these awful people around. For every five good words we write they post 500 of pure crap. Tell them to leave, tell them to their face to knock it off, they double down.
So I was all set to plaster my system page with cool pics and descriptions of all the borderline magic stuff going on. Thanks to the Hateful 18 I've decided on another course.
There's some good people out there. I will continue to post useful information of a general nature for them. There's some owners and serious considerers out there. I'll respond to all their questions, and they can DM me and I will be happy to help them as much as I can with the really juicy stuff. Which if you try this I guarantee you will be freaking amazed what that means.
That leaves us with the Hateful 18. You guys remove every single one of your posts, not everywhere just on this thread, DM to let me know, include a few words of regret and amends, I will think about it.
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My experience the last few days, what's been done and what I'm hearing, got me thinking of what was posted a while ago: The signal path is everything from the performer's brain to yours. The music begins somewhere deep within the psyche of the performer, and travels somewhere deep within yours. There is no physical or scientific means of defining the separation of the performer or the listener from the universe or from each other. If you are your toe then you are the universe.
This is why our idea of what is a sound system is so childishly simple. This is why changes made as far away as the electric meter impact the sound in the listening room. Its all one thing. Improvements made anywhere, anywhere at all along this chain have a profound impact on the sound. Which its not even the sound, its the psychic impression we are talking about.
This came up recently when pondering something new. There are many different approaches manufacturers can take to developing new equipment. Ted Denney III is known for his use of double-blind testing. Keith Herron has done the same. They sometimes work with each other. Peter Ledermann collaborates with Frank Schroeder. They also sometimes use skilled amateurs.
Its a challenge, and a responsibility. The challenge in this case is made all the harder by its revolutionary nature. Already some who have heard only a small part have called it audio nirvana. Hard to argue. For sure the usual audiophile glossary of terms falls short. As unlikely as it sounds there really may be a point where its more feeling than hearing. I could tell you all about how much more clearly every little detail is coming through now. How my wife is telling me she heard it from the very first note, and from the other room, its that big a difference. But its all so inadequate. So I won't. Sorry. |
When I first heard about TC the main thing that kept me from buying, aside from the price, was all these people who pasted their caps, chassis, breaker panels, all kinds of stuff. Nothing could do all that. Right?
Wrong. Turns out contact enhancement is the least of what it does.
The way I think of it now is more in terms of preserving the integrity of the field around the signal than the signal in the wire itself. The very distinction we make between the signal in the wire and the field around the wire is arbitrary. That's why I wrote that April post and why I posted it again just earlier. This is all very poorly understood so you can think of it differently if you like but there's pretty good evidence for why I think this way.
Where I heard the biggest improvement, by far, per amount used was on the internal speaker wires. Midrange and tweeter most of all. Probably because that's where the energy is changing fastest, and also where our hearing is sharpest. Whatever the reason, just the tiniest speck of TC spread super thin over those wires made a huge improvement.
Use an artists brush, take your time, and brush it out until the wire is covered with a nice smooth thin layer. One tube will do your entire system- every wire, every cap, transformer, all of it- if very carefully spread thin this way. Probably you will even have enough to do all the connections in your breaker panel. Just use a very thin coat and only on the areas that actually make contact. If you have more you can coat everything. But to get the most out of it concentrate it on the small surface area items first.
Eventually I did everything in my panel, and even the AC power wire and step down transformer. Then this last few days all that was coated again only this time with something even better. People have no idea. Well a few, maybe half a dozen of us.
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noromance- Curious about the springs under speakers though. Any movement of the speaker front baffle will smear the sound. Yes and that was my objection, that it will move even more on springs. So obviously better to have the speaker more or less anchored to the floor. What got me to change my mind, or at least curious enough to try, is its not just the speaker that's moving. Vibrations are not a one-way street. The drivers move, the speaker cabinet starts vibrating, which it in turn excites the floor. This is just the mechanical vibration we're talking about so far. There's also acoustic, as the air excites all surfaces in the room. Each with their own resonant frequencies. All this jumble of vibrations inevitably winds up coming right back up into the speaker cabinet. So the front baffle is moving and smearing either way. The question then becomes, which is worse? The speaker cabinet is at least quite small, and they tend to be built with a lot of bracing deliberately intended to kill or at least control resonance. The room on the other hand- plywood, sheetrock- good luck with that! Even concrete, it merely has a different set of resonant behavior. The speaker cabinet itself, its motions aren't really ever going to be very well controlled merely standing on the floor. To keep the baffle from moving it makes no sense to support it at the base alone. It would require fixing both the base and the top of the cabinet. Otherwise it just rocks, like was noted above. Then since the floor is moving, the more rigidly its on the floor the more the speaker will move. Worse, the floor is really big. Vibrations take a long time to settle. The smearing might be less in amplitude, but more complex and lasts longer. Its hard to know for sure, there's just way too many variables. That's why the springs are coming. They're cheap. The first test is super easy. Even trying them under the Moabs shouldn't be all that hard. Not as hard as what I did this last weekend, that's for sure! |
See what I mean speedbump6? The conversation goes along really well for quite a while. I mean its actually an intelligent exchange of ideas. Then one of the Hateful 18 (prof) throws one of his patented waste of space gratuitous barbs, you make the mistake of responding, and now its like chum in the water and the other even worse one comes along. Next thing you know there'll be half a dozen of em competing for most inane unproductive unwarranted and unwanted comment.
Obviously there's guys here capable of making useful contributions, and there's ones who couldn't even if they wanted. We can't stop them, but we sure can ignore them. Please. Ignore them. Totally. Thanks!
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raysmtb1- The springs do not bobble. You cannot even see the speaker move even
that really loud volumes. The magnetic ones are the same way they don’t
bobble unless you bump into them. Right. Always figured that's what he meant, they bobble when bumped. Townshend says in his video a bit of dynamic energy does go into moving the cabinet. But the cabinet mass is so much less than the moving mass of the drivers its pretty minimal. The real advantage is uncoupling the vibrating speaker from the vibrating floor. Eliminating the ringing he shows on his iPad seismograph looks to be the real benefit. What that shows is speaker cabinet resonance dies super fast when suspended on springs. When coupled to the floor the vibrations excite the floor which being a lot bigger winds up resonating longer. Yes even concrete. Watch when he does it on concrete. The signature (frequency) of the ringing changes but its still there, and surprisingly for about the same amount of time. Just to look at the demo it would appear this has to be smearing transients and losing detail way more than any possible loss of dynamics there might be from not being coned to the floor. This is what turned me around in my thinking. It always bothered me this idea of cones being like a diode or a sink with vibrations going one way. Of course that can't be. But I never really thought about how much energy those cones were conducting right into the floor, and how that would excite the floor, and from there feed right back into the speakers- and everything else. Once I get the chance to test them, and assuming they work, the next question will be how to best use them with BDR. If at all.
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Given the track record around here, attacking me as a shill for the crime of saying what I think about something bought with my own money, it will be interesting to see how they attack an actual shill who does have something to sell. Not to pick on you Robert. And not gonna hold my breath. Just taking the opportunity to point out what deranged hypocrites certain people are. raysmtb1- Is everybody in agreement that changing out the screws to brass screws makes a significant difference? Everybody’s never in agreement about anything. Here’s what’s going on. Every time we play music everything starts vibrating. When I say everything I mean everything. From way outside your house, all the wire running through it all the way to the speakers, every single bit of the loudspeaker, room, house, all the way to your tympanic membrane and on into the neurons inside your head. Everything. Every single one of these things has its own characteristic sets of resonant frequencies. With instruments that’s how we tell violin from viola from cello. Because every single tiny little bit is vibrating, and because that after all is what we call music (vibrations) then it naturally follows that a change in any one of them is bound to be heard in the music. People can doubt this all they want. People can try and explain it, or explain it away, all they want. Its the reason cones, spikes, springs, panels, racks, and everything else works, so good luck explaining it away. The way every single one of all these tiny little things vibrates winds up exciting and influencing the vibration of every other tiny little thing, so good luck explaining it, too! I haven’t tried copper screws. Like the man said there aren’t exactly boxes of them sitting there at Lowe’s. But I have compared mild steel, stainless steel, and brass. Went through this 20 years ago, figuring out how I wanted to build the Miller Carbon Turntable. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367All my gear is on BDR Cones. The Cones have short little threaded studs screwed into them, and these studs connect to the gear. Roughly 1" long, encased in carbon fiber. One would think it impossible to matter what is in there. Nope. Was not huge, but was definitely able to hear a difference between all three of them. On screws? Fastened directly to a tweeter or midrange driver? Of course it will make a difference. For better or worse? Go and listen. You will see. |
fO.q tape uses the piezoelectric effect to transfer micro vibrations into electricity which ultimately is dissipated as heat. http://www.foq.jp/foqhp_e/qa.htmlSmall pieces on the speaker baskets or in place of speaker gaskets greatly improves resolution of inner detail. |
Yes roxy54, and now you see how amazing one seemingly minor little tweak can be, imagine that times a few hundred. Or thousand. Then you will begin to understand where my grand depictions of what I’m hearing are coming from. thecarpathian- I guess I’m not going to receive an answer to my question as to why miller stated the fO.q tape utilizes the piezoelectric effect.
Apparently I’ve somehow gotten on the infamous enemies list henceforth know as the Hateful18+2 and counting. Relax. There’s the Hateful 18 I ignore. Then there’s ones I just tend to blow past for lack of having much content. You’re the latter. Although I must say lately you are pushing it. http://www.foq.jp/foqhp_e/qa.html The piezoelectric effect is the mechanism by which the mechanical energy of vibration is turned into electricity. Certain crystals when stressed generate a small amount of electric charge. When you push the button on one of those electric gas lighters that’s what your doing. In that case the crystals charge a capacitor which then suddenly discharges creating the spark. Oh and if you want to carp that it doesn’t say "piezoelectric" don’t forget you have a search bar too. It can be used to look up all kinds of stuff. As opposed to carping and complaining why I’m not spoon feeding you every little thing- and then carping even more when the answers don’t coddle your fragile ego. Sorry if I sound all etched in granite authoritative. Its just I grew up in an age where we were taught to express ourselves clearly. If we know a thing to be true then it is dishonest to waffle around pretending otherwise. It also risks appearing evasive or condescending. It can even have the undesirable effect of making others question where you stand. With me there is no doubt where I stand. You are free to disagree and try and make your case as clear as I make mine. Or you can carp. You’ve made your choice. But you can always change. Speaking of changing minds, there’s a lot of talk about posts being removed. Everyone assumes this must be due to some triggered Karen whining to some mod. Which does happen, but is an odd assumption particularly on this thread given how many times I have asked people to remove their own. I know some have. Heck I have even removed several of my own. Just a reminder thecarpathian, and even more so you Hateful 18, you can remove as many of your obnoxious posts as you feel will benefit the thread. Thank You! speedbump6- Miller, you can only be bullied if you feel like a victim. I refuse to be a victim, but I do believe some posters do show some serious character flaws, since it seems they can’t have a real convo, and chose to attack a point, rather than discuss it. I am sure that none of them would be so boisterous face to face. They’d be much more willing to have an actual conversation, but get them on an anonymous online chat, and they morph into someone else. I believe some have a poor self image, and try to bolster it with bold talk in chats such as these. I said they were bullying. Didn’t say I was bullied. Clearly I am not. Either way, you have them nailed. Could’ve called them the Pathetic 18. But it just doesn’t have quite the same ring to it. |
What millercarbon actually said. (Yes an actual cut and paste. You can scroll up and read it if you don't believe me!): Given the track record around here, attacking me as a shill for the crime of saying what I think about something bought with my own money, it will be interesting to see how they attack an actual shill who does have something to sell. Not to pick on you Robert. And not gonna hold my breath. Just taking the opportunity to point out what deranged hypocrites certain people are. Free writing tip: state the subject nice and clear right up front in the first sentence. Since I did that and audiopoint still didn't get it let me elaborate: The subject is the irrational and hypocritical track record of people attacking me for stuff I never did or said, while ignoring others who actually do the same things. But knowing what lousy reading comprehension people have these days I added "Not to pick on you Robert". But you still didn't get it. Oh well. Fact remains: you're the shill, not me. Again, not that I care! Its not the shilling, its the inconsistency, derangement, and bullying. You can shill all you want. Appreciate your doing it elsewhere but its kinda sorta relevant (maybe) so whatever. Just at least be man enough to admit that is indeed what you are doing, okay? Oh, and the people I thought were MDS and would ignore your shilling? They are. And they did. I really like the Tarantino-esque ring of "The Hateful 18". Like it enough so's to think I'll keep it. Even though its now grown to 20. |
Of course wire matters. That's why I've been saying for DECADES that cables are every bit as important a component as anything else. Yes decades. Since the 1990's. Power cords, interconnects, speaker cables- they are all equally as vital and contribute just as much to sound quality as speakers, amps and source components. The trick with all these is to find the best sound quality performance for your audiophile dollar. You did it with speakers. Whether or not you did it again with Transparent only you can determine and only by comparing a lot of different ones. Or what I would do, if you are really happy, then congratulations, be really happy. That is after all the ultimate goal. Can anyone tell me why? No. And this is where so many people blow it. If you accept the simple fact cables do sound different, and do make a significant contribution to system performance, and then use this knowledge to select cables based on how people say they sound, congratulations, you will do well. But if instead you focus on trying to understand why, and base your decisions on marketing narratives, well then good luck. Because that is all they are. Marketing narratives. You will not completely blow it, because contrary to what some think the fact is cables that cost hundreds and thousands actually do tend to sound pretty darn good. But your odds of missing out on the really, really good ones just went way, way down. Go and listen. You will see. |
Speedbump6- Miller, it’s not too hard to define the characteristics of those kind.
The thought process involved are not complicated. Even a first year psych
student could properly diagnose the issues involved. After being so thoroughly thrashed, here is what all their posts amount to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZoVO8ZyyQI am at this point reminded of the old joke. What did the masochist say to the sadist? "Beat me." What did the sadist say? "No, I won't."
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protoss71- Wow, I knew it would take a while to make my Moabs. I was not ready for over three months of waiting! Still no notification of completion. Yes, that is a bit long. You can read through the thread and find a lot of details about why order times are so high. Eric is basically living the reality of success as explained to me by Keith Herron of Herron Audio. Keith told me a good review can do him just as much if not more harm than a bad one. The bad one people eventually learn it was a bad review, not a bad product, and so all is well. But a good review the orders come flying in and he’s swamped, and customer service suffers, because he can’t hire and expand and ramp up production without taking on crippling financial obligations. Eric has piles, and not good reviews but great ones, and not on one speaker but pretty much all the many models he makes. About the best thing I can tell you is it will be worth the wait. The Moabs really are to die for. Everything good you have heard or read is true, and from the first minute you fire them up you are gonna be one happy audiophile. But also if you read through the thread you will notice I never just sat around waiting for notification. I was never a pest and never pushed them but whenever I called and was given a timeline I did call back and follow up on that timeline. Be aware one of the many reasons it takes a while is they don’t just throw drivers in boxes. Every driver that comes in is run through a series of tests. Some get tossed and the ones that pass get sorted. Matched sets are made from these sorted out drivers. They’re doing this on thousands of drivers. (Yes, thousands, they order these things by the thousands.) Eric is kind of low key about this. He’s told me several times all the big names are using matched drivers. But I rather doubt its anything like this kind of volume. For sure its not matched sets of 30! So hang in there. Moabs are totally worth the wait. But don’t be afraid to call and ask every once in a while either. |
How they sound is already detailed above. Not a lot to add except now with more time I am way more impressed. Moabs are a much better speaker than I thought. Every tiny little thing, you hear it. One couple was over recently, said never felt so enveloped, like the stage was all around them. Made me realize, with some recordings it is like that. With others the stage is deeper. Always though the envelopment. It is entirely recording dependent. What you put on is what you get. Amazing. The Talon crossovers are pictured on my System page https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 You can see at the top the original crossovers were potted. The new X crossover is on the board Mike sent me, and you can see how I coated it with TC and other PPT stuff. Compared to Moab, the Talon uses roughly the same quality level caps (hard to be sure) but seems to have higher quality inductors and resistors. One of the main things I liked about the Khorus was smooth natural inner detail. Pretty sure the higher quality crossover parts had a lot to do with this. High expectations for the crossover upgrades I have planned for the Moabs. You can see from the pics the Khorus were on BDR. That was the best, until springs. Only found out about springs after Khorus. Then found Townshend Podiums are a LOT better than mere springs. Of course the Khorus would be improved a lot by this if I still had them, but still nowhere near Moab level. For all the accolades I have to say the Moab is in my opinion underrated. People are being conservative, probably due to all the flack they get for speaking the truth. Just sayin'. Pretty sure I never heard Phoenix. Might have. The last/best Talon I heard was when I was at CES, which was I think a little before Phoenix came out. I seriously doubt anything in that time frame any price can hold a candle to Moab. Hardly anything today can. Eric's MTM technology is just too good. |
protoss71, Springs came in the other day, was just about to slap together a jig to try em when someone even more hateful than the 18 here intervened. Now with my work schedule we are looking at next weekend for the next round of tweaks. I must say they are pretty beefy looking and do seem perfectly matched for the job!
You are truly misguided and make a lot of false assumptions uberwaltz but you are more glossed over than hateful. Sorry. And if you removed some of your crap, thanks. Really. Appreciate it. Set an example for others to follow?
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No discount, not even on upgrades. He did autograph them without being asked. Not that I would have thought to ask, but it was a nice surprise.
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They do. The last time we talked it was about this sort of thing. Its one of his principle design features, using drivers to cover a lower band they can more easily handle. Where Eric uses 14 tweeters, for example, most designers would use one 9" midrange driver. Its the same radiating area and the same frequency band. One midrange can handle it. But while the one midrange will be able to handle the lower range quite well its just too massive to respond as fast as is needed to reproduce overtones accurately. Which is why all such speakers suffer in comparison.
You can see this concept being carried out both up and down the line. Going up the line he's got the concept extended lower in frequency with multiple midrange size drivers handling bass and even multiple woofers handling the really deep bass.
Going down the line speakers like Double Impacts with only one array it can't go as low so those have midrange size drivers to cover the lower midrange/upper bass region. With Moabs the double array goes low enough he's able to get away with two rather large woofers. The different models are all variations on this theme.
If you want to talk frequency you'll have to call him and ask. Some of it he'll talk about, other stuff he can't give away details. But you can always ask.
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No lalitk, its a total gratuitous dig. Everything he mentions is covered in the thread, and in detail. Just a total dig of no value whatsoever. And the opposite of what you say, I have stressed time and again that a component better sound good right out of the box, or send it back. So you can stop mischaracterizing my views. Thanks. mahgister writes a truly beautiful post: I don’t know, but isn’t the general wisdom on tweaks to get the know the sound of all the components in the system in their stock state, before embarking on tweaking? Perhaps you are right if you think about someone who will add some tweaks that are considered by most like "only" placebos .... Perhaps you are right also about some tweaks that produce an effect that suppose mainly a trade -off in the audio system and then whose addition may be questionable...
But you are wrong if you think that any "generic" design electronic component sound the same in "specific" environment...No house is the same...
You are wrong if you think like most, that any costly branded "generic" design product is ready to gives its utmost S.Q. right out of the box, without asking for any controls in the 3 dimensions where this product will be embed: mechanical(vibrations-resonance), electrical( synergy , synchronization and the general noise floor increasing or decreasing) and acoustical dimension of the room by means of passive materials and active devices...
You are wrong and a victim of marketing if you think that no works from you is need to create from and with an electronic component,( be it a dac, speakers amplifiers and power supplies etc) the best level of S.Q. using this component...
You are wrong and dont understand the audiophile task and hobby if you think that a bunch of unrelated tweaks is a METHOD of experimental listenings... Audiophile journey is not a disease, except for those who react passively to their desire without thinking how to embed their audio system and go with the market blinders in a buying spree(upgrade without end)...Audiophile are creative not market sheeps....
In a nutshell, you are wrong if you think that any product has a sound of his own, always the same, only by virtue of his"generic" engineered specifications, in any house, in any room, linked to any other product, and for all ears... Think about the difference between a "generic" design conditions that are universal in an engineereing sense, and the "specific" conditions where this "generic" design will be implemented in all embeddings dimensions... How could it sound the same in all conditions?
And remember that a bunch of ready made "tweaks" is not a listening experiments method in the 3 embeddings...By the way all my "tweaks" and devices are created by me, homemade, at low cost after many listening experiments and i call that a method not a tweaking only and mainly....I think millercarbon is on the same road with his own way and knowledge and rixthetrick also for example....
Thank you, mahgister. Well said. Unfortunately the people you are responding to are so totally deranged and clueless they are oblivious to the fact they are running over guys like you and rixthetrick just to get at me. Like I care. Like any of us care what they have to say! If we cared, would we be reminding them to remove their posts and get off the thread? Losers. Absolute total losers. Not one positive thing to contribute. Even if they wanted to. Which clearly they do not. But you keep fighting the good fight. Much appreciated. Really. Took me a while to catch on to it but you are right we have the same philosophy and approach. Only real difference is I search around and buy what you figure out how to make from the ground up. But its all the same stuff. This philosophy works so well that while the Moabs stand head and shoulders above the Khorus, tower over them in fact, they nevertheless were not in the same league in terms of that special inner ease and detail we get with electrical and vibrational embeddings. The Khorus in other words had been tweaked enough that as good as the Moabs sound it was clear they were missing that special extra something. Now having learned from experience it was easy to do what had been done before, and then some. In one fell swoop we did more in one day than months of the baby steps that were taken with the Khorus. You are absolutely right. If your head is full of uncertainty and doubt then of course this is not going to be as much a priority as when you know improvement is for certain. Maybe some day they will figure it out. Or if not then at least stop the childish taunts. As long as this thread is, if only we could remove all their blather and have just the solid contributions like yours, rixthetrick, and the other good ones, wow. What a thread that would be. |
So much good material here. I do hope people are getting this:
mahgister: Like most you think product has a "flavor tone" and that a tweak changes
this original "flavor tone" but this is completely wrong and
superficial idea coming from a lack of understanding about "generic"
design and the "specific" demands in the implementation of the design in
the 3 embeddings dimensions....Improving the 3 embeddings is not
changing some original flavored tone, it is making the product to be
able to go at the level of S.Q. where it is able to go....
So perfectly true. It even extends to the recordings we play. There are many I have had for years that I liked but always felt them to be inadequate in some way. Could be a little too hot, quite a few sounded fine except a lot of instrumentation was sort of buried too far down in the mix. Some sounded fine until they got loud and with a lot of stuff going on all at once it sort of congealed all together. What's funny is the tweaks and mods have made them all sound better. Which is funny because if these things work the way the tone control people think then the improved detail that made the congealed ones more clear would make the hot ones even worse. But that never happened. The hot harsh ones actually sound smoother even as the too smooth ones sound more clean and clear. Also the Khorus main weakness was the midrange, in particular a lack of presence. TC and TA-102 tape greatly improved presence. To the point I was sort of worried if I had gone and done the tone control thing and ruined it for the Moabs. But no. Everything was perfect. Both when the Moabs were new and stock, and even more so now with the tape and paint. So guys I am here to tell you its totally true what Mahgister is saying. The right tweaks improve everything- and not by tilting things one way or another like a tone control but by letting the underlying truth of the music shine through.
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You weren't ignored. It only looks that way because many who pay attention and learn don't always comment, while the same noisy few who refuse to go away post and post and post their nonsense filling up the space with blather. Most of the knowledgeable helpful interested people come along and read the useful info, but by that time there's fifteen bozo comments and having manners they feel its rude to interrupt even though its blather. That's how it happens, thread after thread after thread. Because they like wrecking things, the good ones are too nice to tell them again and again to get lost (not that we haven't tried), and the mods are okay with their form of abuse.
We did get rid of one. Congratulations. A Hateful 18 to go. |
Great idea. Thanks! I'm in Redmond, WA. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367jovialspirit, raysmtb1, shalommorgan, listening99, randym860, jengelmann, protoss71, speedbump6, klh007, lancelock, and anyone I may have missed, chime in if you want to play along. gimmeroc has Encores, iwin has Ulfberhts, nwres has Enzo XL. Anyone with any Tektons is welcome. The more the merrier! |
nwres- MC, Moabs look great! You must have gotten dozens of E card for all your cables. Share the difference they make? Thanks, and according to my much more styling oriented wife they look pretty good and will look even better when I get around to re-painting and adding planned diffuser panels. It'll look and sound much better, but very time-consuming project so don't look for it any time soon. E-cards, Mats, and TC all sound very much the same. All remove an impressive amount of grunge, grain, glare, and just make an overall improvement in clarity and detail. Almost hate to say clarity and detail because the improvement I'm talking about is not like what most would associate with detail. Its similar to the way Moabs greatly improve clarity and detail and do it not only without adding any hype or etch but actually managing somehow to be both faster, more dynamic, more detailed AND smoother, all at the same time. E-cards and Mats are like that, only even more so. If you can believe that. Which you should. Cuz its true! Too many tweaks to count . But the mystery connection is your Preamp in becoming a Pre-out. Using two resistors, kind of a voltage divider, two resistors in series?
Well let's see there's Mats that are sliced up and wrapped around cables. Some early ones are held on with zip ties. More recently improved versions with tape (speaker cables only so far) are TDF. As for the pre-out, close but no cigar. The pre-out is a mod but no mystery, there's even a look inside at the resistors. But you are looking in the right area. That's all I will say. Just one more clue. There's enough information just in one picture to be able to figure it out. (Though you must look and study #41 real, real closely- and even then it will help to also study #42.) But honestly, only if you're a genuine millercarbon level audiophile will you stand a chance. That's for real by the way. I figured it all out myself, then confirmed with the manufacturer. No one else has. Still, its all there for anyone with the chops to discern. Happy hunting! |
After listening to a couple albums, Tchaikovsky and Simon, I never realized before how much of what I was hearing and feeling was mechanical vibrations transmitted from the speaker through the floor into the chair and finally to me. Always just assumed that was acoustic energy exciting the floor and walls. Just a huge amount of extraneous smearing vibrations gone now. Its really quite a difference!
Its especially noticeable with bass, which is now much more clearly tied to the instruments in the sound stage. Same for everything else, just its more obvious with the bass. Which is really incredible, considering its only the Moabs on springs. There's still five subs on cones on the floor!
This is probably where the disappearing speakers effect comes from. Its always hard to make comparisons, because there's so many different aspects that are involved, but I like to try and equate different things if only to give people some idea of relative performance. Like, Synergistic Blue and Orange Fuse are roughly equivalent to a $500 power cord like the Master Coupler. Well in this case the Spring Thing is a greater improvement than two Synergistic HFT Speaker Kits, plus a couple HFT wall kits. By the time you add HFTX or some ECT then you are pulling even. In other words at least a thousand dollars of really good Synergistic to make the speakers disappear about as much as these slapped together Spring Things.
Well done, Rick. |
Added to the list. Thanks. Pressed for time today, got a lot to do but wanted to snap some pics of the current setup before the ugly spring things Rick got me making. See if you can count all the tweaks. First one to correctly find and explain the mystery connection gets moved to the genius level audiophile list. The only clue I will give is to read the captions. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 |
Thanks for the new photos, Chuck.
Damn, you've been busy. That's a lot of hard work!
As Rick James would say, "Super Tweaky!"
Must sound h-o-l-o-g-r-a-p-h-i-c...
Yes but honestly its been holographic since the 90's. Much more so now, yes. Its improved a lot since then. But forced to pick the one thing that has improved the least it would be 3D stage. By far the greater improvements have been in the areas of top to bottom extension, dynamics, and crazy spooky real detail. You are dead on right about it being a lot of work. Projects that have eaten up entire days off: building DBA subs, completely reconditioning and rebuilding a panel, removing speaker drivers, interior Herron mods, interior Melody mods, MPC/conditioner mods, tone arm and leads, motor, AC wire under the house, probably a few more I'm forgetting. Today was the Spring Thing test platform for the springs rixthetrix is helping me with. One of the harder parts is finding springs tuned to the size and weight of the component. Next is figuring out the dimensions to get good balance and stability. So I decided to slap together something ugly, and so now I know ride height and balance. Just need to fine tune a few details then figure out how to make it all look good. Sound good, that part we got covered. Everyone was right, the springs improve everything. Instead of feeling bass coming up through the floor and chair you feel it in your chest and what you feel and hear is way more articulate, tuneful and detailed, with a lot more character. Not only bass, the whole presentation is deeper and more 3D. There's no loss of dynamics. Wouldn't exactly say there's more dynamics, but it sort of feels that way sometimes because the background noise floor seems quite a bit lower. How it keeps getting lower and lower is one of the great mysteries. There's a definite group who looks at things like my amp and assumes to know what I have. You do not know what I have. You have no clue. There's literally something like three people here who have any idea whatsoever. People with The Gate, that kind of thing. That's it. Mahgister too I guess, because he knows just how far the right tweaks can take things. These are the right tweaks. My oh my are they the right tweaks! Its a lot of work, yeah. But the improvement I'm hearing, the realms its taking me into, I can hardly wait to start the next project! |
It’s funny: springs (most prominently those offered by Audiogon gadfly Geoff Kait) and the more-sophisticated Townshend Seismic Pod (and related products) have been mentioned and recommended here on Audiogon numerous times in that past few years. I felt it was falling on deaf ears, and gave up. The ol’ "Wasn’t invented here" phenomenon? You’re kidding of course because we all know that’s not it. The main guy pushing springs was doing it with nonstop wisecracks and flying saucers. The minute someone comes along and clearly makes his case, boom, done. And I do mean that literally, it was literally minutes, and there is even an email chain to prove it. And no it had nothing to do with the guy being an authority or credible or having a track record or anything like that. Because I never met Rick before in my life and hardly even read his posts- he was as new then as new can be. He just said hey would you consider this and made his case. Boom. Done. People should see those emails. Blow your mind. The only thing I may have done, is explained the benefits in a way that may have made enough sense for you to try it out. Which actually proves your point, you are not immovable, and you are open to new ideas.
Yo do have an opinion based upon experience, and some people don’t like your confidence, which can be mistaken for arrogance. However this test here, and your current photos are evidence that you do scrutinize and weigh up possibilities, and use your experience to filter out what you don’t see as profitable. Exactly. Case in point. That’s all it takes, one nice clear cogent argument. Oh but let’s not forget: even then you still have to step away from the keyboard and go and actually do it. Later! |
Yes, saw the link, and thanks uberwaltz.
Although, its another great example of how something really simple can be made mind-numbingly complicated simply by taking a technical approach to what is really a very common sense problem. All we need is a spring that compresses from about 6" to about 3" with a load of around 15 lbs. Or 10 lbs. Or whatever. Point is its very intuitive and easy to describe. Until some engineer gets hold of it, and now you have to specify square or ground ends, wire diameter, inside and outside diameter, and more, and plug in all these values in order to get some random thing in stock they want $50 for one but for $100 you can buy a thousand of the same thing.
I just saw one that would work, $15 each, unless you buy a lot, then five cents. Which is of course is exactly what I was saying the clown was doing, buying a box of a thousand for $400, selling them for $20 ea. Yes it actually costs more to buy 25 than to buy 500!
Oh well. That is about what we need. From about 5 or 6" unloaded to about 2 or 3" when loaded with about 15 lbs. For amp, turntable. The ones under the Moab now are about like that, only its more like 40 lbs instead of 15. For a DAC or something it would be maybe only 1 or 2 lbs instead of 15.
But what is easy to describe in general terms- a spring that your component will compress three or four of them about half way- takes forever to find using the calculator.
There's an O-ring World store here near me. Searched and searched and even ordered a replacement for my turntable using the part number from their website. Not even close. Then I go to the store, lady opens a box, just like that I am out the door with three of em.
Spring City, anyone? |
grey9hound- please read the thread. There’s useful Moab info running from beginning to end. There’s also numerous comments from myself and others doing our level best to tell certain people to get lost, stop posting, and move on. Over and over again. Precisely because they produce so much crap, pages and pages of blather, so that when someone like you comes along often times the last dozen posts is nothing but their blather and it seems the thread should be shut down.
But no. What should be shut down is the Hateful 18. They do their level best to ruin every thread. Go look, you see the same names over and over again. They are so deranged its unbelievable. They actually consider themselves the backbone and core of the site, when they are in fact the cancer. Don’t take my word for it, read the posts. They have been asked by a half a dozen different people to move along. Their ignorant reply is they are the backbone. Read the posts. See what I mean.
They are so dim, even the one who has been told to his face he is #1 on the list wonders if he is on the list. Its not about their freedom to post. I have no problem with their posting. I do have a problem with their ruining a source of information. Which as you just demonstrated they clearly are doing.
I have asked them repeatedly to remove their obnoxious and offensive posts. They refuse. What you should do, what everyone interested in a more useful site should do, is ask them to remove their blather and move along. Repeatedly. Until every one of their insipid posts is met with move along. Because until that happens they will simply move their blather to the next thread. And the next. And the next. So you can be part of the problem, or part of the cure. Ask them to move along. Please. |
Several people told me owning Moabs is going to be very expensive. Because every little upstream change is so clear I’m gonna wind up having to upgrade everything, I guess is the way its supposed to go. And I have been on a tear with upgrades, just my idea of components runs more to tape and springs and goo. And now, rubber bands. In a move that pushes the envelope of frugality I feel like Chuck Yeager in The Right Stuff flying out there in the thin air. Okay really I just dug through the clutter drawer looking for the right strength rubber band. Back in the listening room one rubber band suspends the speaker cable in the saddle of the Cable Elevator just right to let it float free. Krissy had told me to suspend them from the ceiling on fishing line. Said its huge. Springs under the Moabs is pretty huge. Now rubber bands under the speaker cables. Had to check. Whew, for a minute there was scared mahgister had beat me to it. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8221 No such luck! So now I got one for you, mahgister! Rubber bands! Those people were right. Moabs reveal every little change. Costing me a fortune. 😂😂😂 |
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For those wondering what's going on: after proving the benefit of springs under speakers I tried something similar, using rubber bands under speaker cables. Added a picture to my system page so people can see just how easy it is. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Easily the most high value cost-effective tweak I have tried to date. |
I read that review months ago. Shows how my memory works. Only pay attention and remember the good stuff. Knew the Raven trounced much more expensive amps. Could not for my life have told you it was the Octave. Just not relevant. Course for the guy who likes a little glare, tubes that sound solid state, etc could be a winner.
The Nighthawk is their entry level. Blackhawk adds higher quality caps, resistors, and a 4 step gloss powder coat. Osprey adds flexible bias that runs a bit more power and the ability to adjust for a wider range of NOS tubes. All of the Raven amps are coming up for new Mk versions between now and 1Q21. |
Probably improved the crossover just getting it out of the cabinet. That has been suggested before. Good idea. |
That's member Kemper Holt, klh007, in one of the reviews used in my selection process.
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raysmtb1- springs? Remember “because Newton?” LOL... glad to see an old dog is man enough to try a new trick. :) Rick can testify to the fact that I latched onto springs the minute it was explained clearly. Why none of the spring proponents ever bothered to do this I don’t know. For sure they had plenty of opportunities. So for the record its definitely not a case of an old dog trying a new trick. Rather its a case of a smart dog understanding the trick will indeed work and then doing it. Just like with DBA, and Tekton, once I understand what’s going on the rest becomes a foregone conclusion. Neither do the springs alter any of my earlier thinking. Speaker vibration still needs to be controlled, and we are working on improvements on that score as well. The Moabs are still on Cones, its just the Cones are on the spring thing. Need time to experiment and figure out which combination of controls works best. Then will get a much better looking and more functional spring platform design. But while the proof of concept was fast this next stage will take more time as it involves moving the dang speakers around which is no mean feat! I mean even tweaking them a fraction of an inch right now eats up real time as you have to then check and adjust level, measure three corners, ensure everything precise, because we are listening and judging at a level where even a tiny difference in placement could override the difference in what we’re actually trying to compare. viber6- These Be tweeters are probably a lot better than the Ulf tweeters, since Eric claims that the Be is a significant improvement Eric told me that with all-Be they are as good as any speakers currently available at any price. "You can take your Magicos, Wilsons, you name it, they are that good." So "significant improvement"? Yeah, sure, can’t argue. Not that its happening any time soon. If my miners take off then maybe next year. But then he also is planning a truly high end speaker, not merely like the current ones but more a statement type model, or line, and taking a more conventional approach with regards to drivers, cabinet, probably even materials. Who knows. He didn’t go into details. Just letting folks know, expect something equally as disruptive as anything he’s done so far. Which again if the miners take off as expected just might be doable. Right now though these things sound so good it is quite honestly hard to believe. Hate to keep saying this, but its not just the speakers, its the whole mega-embedded system. But even the single tweeter should be listened to at the correct height for your chair height. This requires tweaking of the backward tilt, or use of spikes/springs with variable height. The test spring thing is within a fraction of an inch of the original height on Cones. One of my goals for the finished Spring Thing is to have all these adjustments be easy and precise. L/R, F/B, toe and tilt. Pretty much like the Townshend, only with better toe adjustment. Is the goal. Might not be able to figure that out. But you never know. I did after all brainstorm the rubber band trick. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 See #47. |
ksnel331 your room at 16x21x9 is only slightly smaller than my 17x24x9 https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 I've never measured this but they're probably about 10-12 feet apart and around 7 to 9 feet away. The first photo on my page is from where they come together a couple feet behind the sweet spot. They image beautifully, the sound is seamless top to bottom, and moving around a bit I have no problem saying you will be fine in your slightly closer situation. Beyond fine! Amazing speakers! I like a bit wider setup and a bit more toe in than some, but did experiment a bit. With a bit more toe in the stage is a bit more focused and deep, very slightly out from there its a bit wider and not quite as deep but still with very good focus. I'm talking very fine adjustments, only a few degrees one to the other. Within that range the tone balance doesn't shift noticeably. This tells me that a) nice even dispersion and b) you will have no problem sitting a bit closer. There's people using these in much smaller rooms, much closer to the walls, just way worse situations than either of us, and yet they are crazy happy. There's every reason to believe everything I'm saying about Moabs applies equally with Encores. I had originally planned on Ulfberhts. That was based on reviews, and comments, and the expectation that nobody is going to build a speaker so close in performance to their very best and sell it for half the price. Honestly thought the Ulfs would have to be a whole lot better. But teajay reviewed and bought Ulfs, then reviewed Moabs, and told me very directly the Moabs come so very close its just not worth paying double to get that little bit more. Encores never even came up. Also asked Eric about parts quality differences, specifically between the tweeters. Since with 15 per speaker they are so important. Eric said yes the Ulf tweeters are better, but you would find it hard to hear the difference. In fact he said I wouldn't be able to hear the difference- but they're better! (That's practically an exact quote!) But now having lived with Moabs I would never try and talk anyone out of either Encores or Ulfs. As far as I'm concerned Eric is The Man in speakers today. Whatever his best is, is the best. Period. I know that ticks people off. Too bad. Ticks me off I have to scan past pages of blather to get to the one or two comments like yours that actually belongs here. Whatever you get, order the upgrades, and plan on putting them on springs. Even my cobbled together quickie spring experiment made a huge improvement. There should be a really good DIY design up by the time you get yours. Or if not search around, there's plenty of highly cost-effective options. Just so you do it. My guess is Moabs like mine with the upgrades and sitting on springs will outperform Ulfs in standard trim on factory spikes. Nor will it even be close. Springs are a big upgrade. If this motivates you to order upgraded Encores or Ulfs and put them on springs, so much the better! Just don't see how you can go wrong with any of these truly fine speakers.
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Concrete or wood, both are resonant just at different frequencies. Here's a Townshend video demonstrating his spring platform on a suspended concrete floor. https://youtu.be/7ew4dRUEm-k?t=60 There's other versions all the way down to what I did, which is just a plain old spring and I built the platform and spring tower mounts. Really surprised how well it works, especially since its being compared against BDR Cones on Round Things, which is awfully good. |
Get the standard upgrade- caps, inductors, internal wire and speaker terminals. Just to get the one Be tweeter would be a waste, and to have them all Be would be awesome but is also a lot more money. I’m real happy with mine just the way they are. If I ever upgrade speakers it will be to whatever next generation he comes up with. Remember, going all Be only upgrades the region they cover, 270Hz and up. Which is a lot, but not everything. The one Moab weakness, if you want to call it that, is the small region of upper bass below 270Hz which is why he uses the extra bass drivers to cover that range with the Encore and Ulfberht. That basically is the compromise that saves you $4k. There’s more to it than that, all the drivers are slightly better, but that according to teajay at least is the one you would be able to notice.
One nice thing about Eric, it may take a while (you are probably looking at up to 3 months, realistically) but you can make changes pretty much up to when they go into production. You could probably even order Moabs and change to Encores a month later and not lose your place in line, but don’t quote me on that!
I will have something up on my Spring Thing hopefully in a few weeks. |
Sorry folks, but there’s people able to string words together yet unable to comprehend the subject is Tekton Moab speakers, unable even to understand that "move along, please" really does mean, move along, please.
How to explain it to such dense borderline brain dead individuals? Can someone please help? Mods? Anyone? Anyone at all able to get the message across?
Move along. Please! |
viber6-
I think upgrading only the center tweeter that handles HF would be the
most cost effective thing to do, although if one can afford it, all 15
Be tweeters would be best. Yes, but the real magic of the Moab (and Encore, and Ulf) comes from using the same driver to handle the entire midrange and treble, even going down into the upper bass. This has to have a lot to do with the beautiful seamless midrange. To the extent a Be tweeter is better it is also different. There's no getting around it. No such thing as better but also the same. So if better means more louder that's fine for you. But if better means more seamless it can't be. Which is what teajay meant when he said its a different signature, Be compared to fabric. For sure all Be will be awesome. But there again the same problem. Only now its lower in frequency. Now the problem is finding midbass drivers that match. So you do that. Then woofer.... I hope Eric doesn’t create another huge coffin stuffed
with conventional drivers in the usual way. The whole appeal of his
patented tweeter array is how even using relatively cheap drivers, his
Moab destroys the performance of those big name overpriced speakers. So true. We have a bunch of them here in Seattle. Microserf millionaires snap them up like hotcakes. I've heard em. They have a whole system, the WA state sales tax on which is more than I have in mine. I would not have them for my life. Sorry. I keep inviting people to drop by Definitive, then my place, and no one has taken me up on it as of yet. Standing offer. That's not to say there's not room for improvement. So far all Eric has done is use his revolutionary new technology to get inexpensive drivers to perform far beyond what anyone can do with anything using the old technology. The next logical step is to take that same technology and apply it using the same or similar approach to drivers as the other big names. In other words instead of cheap drivers, expensive better quality ones. If he does what he told me, he will do to cost no object SOTA speakers what he already has done to the merely really expensive speaker makers. They will cost a lot more, for sure. But the sound will be TDF. |
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