Tekton Design Moab

The people from Townsend Must have caught wind of this thread. They’ve been running regular ads in the tweaks section of the for sale side of the website here at audio gone.

I never understood what the points do. They still transfer vibration. My experiences in a lifetime in the trades tell me that if I take a screwdriver (point) and hold it on a running car engine I’d feel vibration. If I took the same screw driver and put a spring on the tip (isolation) I’d feel less vibration. Explain It as fancy as you want, low frequency or high the same rules apply. Tom your products are lovely but I can’t see how they solve the problems that the Townsend videos solve. I had points on my DIrect Impacts for the first 3 months, at higher volumes the bass would rattle the windows and pollute the entire room. I installed the springs, problem solved. These tiny high frequencies that you argue are lost while using springs, I would never be able to hear over the bass polluting everything. 

What is a so-101?

I just finished read the article that greyhound9 posted. I’m sorry but the guy who wrote the article is a goof. Here’s a paragraph, the best is the last sentence.

The maker of the prototype amp was surprised that the Apprentice platform had made any difference, as he had used the same techniques to remove vibrations quickly to ground on the ac transformers in the amp. I know that the toroidal transformers in the LSA Statement are pretty solidly mounted, so this has some credence. However, I must say that the LSA amp sounded quite superior to the prototype. But the reader should note that ones experience may vary from what I have experienced.
I’m with the guy that made the amp. Articles like this piss me off. This hobby has the nicest people in it....but there is so much BS in it,  it ruins the hobby. There’s a handful of people who make cables, magic boxes , etc who make amazing claims about their products and take advantage of people who Love music but don’t understand electronics. I think the whole industry is kind of in on it. Last night I watched a video from Paul McGowan from PS audio. He clearly said that instead of using tone controls to fix your system being light on bass that you should buy another subwoofer. That’s crazy, everybody took the tone controls off of their equipment and the industry tries to sell you a new subwoofer or a set of cables that cost as much as a subwoofer. It’s so stupid and predatory. Whenever I have a chance I tell people about how messed up this audio world is..... Just use your common sense and don’t slip on the snake oil on the floor.

#tyray If you really wanna learn a lot about the truth and the lies in audio give this guy a listen.He makes the most sense out of anybody. Him and a guy named Bob Carver.

https://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ

#greyhound nine, I promise I’m not trying to be difficult. I don’t see how six copper cones and a metal plate between them can make any difference. The shape is really meaningless it could be three steel pins with a plate between them and it wouldn’t sound any different. Like I said I had my speakers up on metal cones and when I switched over to springs there was a huge difference. The biggest difference of any other tweak I’ve ever tried. I’ve been talking about springs and Magnetic levitating feet that I found for almost a year. They definitely make a difference. What does this plate with the four cones cost for a set?

I have tried it. I’ve had one set of points on my speakers. If I’m reading this right the big deal about this platform is that there’s a second set of points that contact the bottom of my speaker. I looked up this Coulumb Friction which appears to be just an equation that helps you figure out the point of where to solids slide apart from each other. So this stand has six points instead of three. I had four points on my speakers. This is kind of what I mean, the reader sees this fancy name and wants to believe that the person writing it is being honest and that this is going to make a monumental change in their system. I think someone said that the platform called the SP101 costs like $1200? That’s crazy. That platform is not going to make $1200 worth of a difference in anybody’s system. I recently have purchased some items that always intrigued me. Some different speaker cables and interconnects. As much as I wanted them to they didn’t make any difference. Thank God I bought them on audio gone for a sick deal. If I would’ve paid full price I would’ve had to have tricked myself that they made a difference to make myself feel better from being scammed. Many many products in this audio world fall into the iffy category. Like the cables And the interconnect. They are going back up for sale next week. One of my favorite claims is that things have to settle in. It’s so untrue all I can do is shake my head.

#tyray. Look at the back of the $30,000 Macintosh XRT series of speakers. There is three sets of binding posts one for treble, One for mid range and one for Bass. They use a small band of copper stamped out in a specific shape to jump between the posts. I seriously doubt that there’s anything special about that little piece of copper sheet. If they spent all that money to develop those $30,000 speakers don’t you think that if these fancy jumpers made a difference that they would design their own? It must not make a difference if they used a little piece of copper sheet. As far as bi-amping goes I think it makes total sense because you’re sharing the work. While somethings going on with the woofers there’s an entirely separate amp to cover the symbol crashes that are coming up in the song. You’ve got twice the headroom. All the super expensive speakers that I’ve seen on the Internet via the audio shows and advertisements all come standard with at least two sets of posts if not three. For the few dollars it took to add theBi-amp option it just made sense. By the way , It sounds freaking amazing too!

#Greyhound nine I’ll give them a try. How much do they cost and do they have a return policy?

I’d be happy to believe you. I looked at every page of your website and I didn’t see one graph that shows the difference that these platforms make. Why is that? Wouldn’t it be easier then having to deal with all of the people like me who question your fancy words on the website?

So with an instrument the stand takes the energy that the instrument produces away from the instrument and makes it easier to play. Am I correct?

Speed bumps six,
When I got back into this audio world I never understood all of those terms that you speak of. I don’t even know what they mean and how to use them. I read about them all the time,The advertisers use them all the time I bought some of their items new and used and I have been disappointed every time except for the ideas with the springs. When I saw the Townsend video where he put the iPad on the opposite speaker showing how that the sound transferred from one speaker through the ground up the other speaker to the iPad when it was using spikes. When he did the same thing when the speakers were on his springs the signal was like five times smaller. That’s what I’m looking for. I’ve been doing a lot of reading tonight, I read through some threads from back around 2005 where there was a big discussion exactly like this one, except the guy in my shoes was much smarter and he made more sense to me than the guys from the platform company.
I’m not saying that the stands don’t make a difference with speakers. I’m sure that the softer metals involved absorb some of the sound that comes out of the speaker and make white things some. I would love to see them do the same test that the Townsend video did. If it came near To making as much of a difference as I could visually see on the iPad I’d be sold. I don’t think they can pull it off though. I don’t think that they come anywhere close the springs. 
I have to pull the plug on this for tonight. My aid is here to help me get to bed. I’d like to continue the conversation tomorrow.

Hey Robert,
I’m sorry I’m being a thorn in your side. It’s not my intention to harm or make fun of any products. I’ve done a lot of reading on your products since one of your guys took a couple pokes at me. I saw that in the past On audio gone that I’m not the only one. There was a fella who is much smarter than I am back in 2005 who is asking several questions that I didn’t feel ever got answered.,
As far as spikes go, when I got back into audio about a year ago and saw these things called still points and all the other brands of point manufacturers. I would ask myself, how do these things work. From my days in science class I believe I was taught that as long as you could draw a vector straight through something that it didn’t matter what the shape it would transfer energy or in our case vibrations from the speaker. If your points on your stands we’re not directly in line with each other, let’s say they had a 1 inch offset then the metal could easily vibrate between the two triangular shaped spikes. One direct spike going into the ground or two Does not make any difference. That’s not to say that putting A speaker on one of your stands may change the sound some. I would guess that it would be limited to what frequencies that the metal Shelf would vibrate at.
A spring on the other hand, Acts completely different than a spike. When I put energy into it, it drastically changes its shape and can handle absorbing many more frequencies than a spike. I’m going to guess that it changes the motion into heat? I’m not sure I’m not that smart. I have worked with designing, building and working with my hands and brain my entire life. I am confident in my beliefs.
I didn’t set out to trash your product. I’m not even sure how I got into this conversation. As a newbie in the audio world, I’ve been burned more than once from products that did not perform at all as advertised. My comments about the Townsend products was an example of how simple a demonstration could be. True, there’s not a bunch of scientists standing around in that video. I believe that Townsend himself is some kind of a physicist or something. He’s definitely a smart guy. The information that they presented about isolation on their website and on their YouTube channel made absolute sense. When I could see a large difference In the read out on the iPad I was sold. His product made sense to me. I haven’t even bought his product, I made my own and once I installed them all of the rumbling bass problems I had went away. I actually feel bad because I kind of ripped the guy off.

why doesn’t  your website have more information on what frequencies your products absorb? Why couldn’t you do a video like Townsen has done?. That simple video seems to have caught on with the readers in this thread. Lots of guys have shared info on buying spring kits and shared information about this idea. I hate to say it but I think that the isolation camp is gaining steam over the coupling camp. Maybe it’s time for you to show us like Townsend has what your products can do. Maybe a lot of fancy words on your website isn’t enough anymore. I can tell you this, from now on I’m not buying anything audio related that doesn’t have some kind of numerical Science to back up all the fancy words. I wish no harm, I wish for information.
Thanks,
Ray

So I’m not sure what happened. I did a post that evidently broke the rules about buying and selling speakers. I posted some numbers and they took down my post. Then I said a bunch of stuff and we had no numbers and they took down my post again. I’m still in Moab owner but I also own a set of Macintosh XRT30S . I spent all day switching stuff out. There is a difference between the Moab and the XRT s.  I spent all day switching stuff out. There is a difference between the Moab and the XRT’s. The Moab with subwoofers give the XRT a run for their money. I would guess that the XRT‘s are about 10% more in all categories.It was definitely a move up from the Moab’s but not by much. When you look at the difference in what the two speakers cost the Moab is the clear winner.

I don’t want to hijack this thread. Does anybody out there have a very good understanding of pre-amplifier’s? I put up a post asking someone to help but who knows. If there’s anyone out there that I could ask a bunch of questions to off of the thread That would be huge. I guess send me a personal message if you can help. Thank you, Ray

#Miller carbon, when I had my accident and I was on a respirator for six months they couldn’t get rid of all the fluid in my lungs. They thought I was a goner. I got the doctors together and I said to them, how can we put a man on the moon in 1969 and you can’t get rid of some stuff  in my lungs? There must be something you can give me. They said we’ve got this stuff called Rubinal... But it’s very strong and we’re not sure we want to use it on you. So I told him I wanted it and bug them and bug them and they finally gave it to me. In two days my lungs and dried off. It took me another months to come off of the respirator but that stuff kept me dry long enough to get the hell out of there. I still use a couple drops of it here in there if I happen to catch a cold and I get stuffed up. Since I’ve only got half of my lungs because they’re paralyzed I can’t let any fluid buildup. When it starts to I got a secret stash of Rubinall. If they give you any shit about not being able to draw you out ask him about it. I seriously think it save my life. I know you and I bumped heads a few times but get well soon. We’ve got more heads up and to do

“I think this pair is going to speedbump6 let’s leave some paint boogers inside” lol!

I think there is many factors that happen at shows. I used to go to the World bicycle show in Las Vegas every year. They have what they call, the On-dirt demo the first 2 days. You ca n ride your favs but it’s still not the same as bringing the bike home and setting it up for yourself and riding it on your own trails. For me, when I was doing business I like to meet the guys in charge, look him dead in the eyes see if they look back. See what kind of grip they got. Then the next thing that’s important is inspecting the products, seeing how the fit and finish is. When I would look at different bikes from different brands all at the same price point they basically were all within 10% of each other. That would be the parts specification and how they would ride. I guess that audio is probably similar. Two speakers from two different brands at the same price point are probably within 10% of each other. I always felt in the other 90% of my decision on how the company was run, Who I had to deal with and what their reputation on the street was like. I would imagine going to the audio showis probably similar. I was going to go this year but of course everything was canceled. I guess I’ll see you next year. So I guess the location of the room and the size of the room does help the presentation but there’s so much more than just the sound of the speakers in my opinion

From what I can tell about the show there’s no constants. The speakers are in different rooms, with different equipment, set up differently. Instead of going from room to room and trying to make a decision the way to do it Is to have a system with two spots where you set each speaker and then they’re in the same room with the same equipment at the same set up. Then you could really see the difference. I have no idea how anybody could make a decision based on all the variables that are at the show. It’s really not a fair comparison to anybody,  the guy who made the speakers or the guy who was interested in buying the speakers. And then everybody’s hearing is different. That’s why this business is loaded with people selling tweaks and upgrades and all kind of junk. Because it’s so subjective,  one guy says he can hear a difference one guy says he can’t. It’s really not even worth talking about who makes a better speaker. I spent one night going through audio gone looking at the floor standing loudspeakers. There is every shape and color and idea out there has been done. Somebody comes up with a new idea of something that looks different to see if they can gain a foothold in the industry. Some of them do and some of them don’t. After a few years of looking at the want ads of people selling stuff I came to the conclusion that if I was going to spend $5000 here and $5000 there it was gonna be with a tried and true brand. I started buying Macintosh products because for the most part they hold their value and I can resell them for near what I paid for them. This is a crazy crazy hobby. There’s no rules it’s buyer beware.
I emailed high fidelity cables to see what their return policy is. Rick Schultz wrote me back and said we only take returns on our two starter products. He claims that everyone is so impressed with his products that he’s only had one person demand a refund in the nine years he’s been in business. I’ll tell you what I’m not risking my $2000 for a set of cables. I tried MIT and transparent cables and I could barely if any Tele difference. I had my friends AB them and they couldn’t tell a difference either.When I bought my Moab speakers I could tell a difference between them and the double impacts that I had before them. The audio world is like the wild west!

I’m thinking about moving on from my Tekton 4-10 subs. They are Tekton factory blue. They sound great but they don’t match anything in my system anymore. Does Miss matching colors bother you guys? Or is it just me?

Only took 12 hours for then to move to Alabama! Think I’ll try SVS 

Hey MC! Glad to hear you didn’t kick the bucket. Sounds like it was pretty close. I kind of wondered because I didn’t see you posting anywhere but I didn’t want to be too nosy, I figured somebody would post some news at some point if you were sick. Yeah, I only sold the 410 Because they didn’t match my new MacIntosh speakers. I am happy with the mid range and highs that come from the towers. It has a little more detail than the Moab but it’s so close it’s crazy. I’m glad that I essentially got the speakers for free what is it because if I would’ve paid big money for them I would’ve been really upset. I may wait until after The holidays when Eric slows down and talk to him about a new set of Ulfs

Wow, you were in some tough shape. I was there for many many months. I remember being on a ventilator like it was yesterday, I remember every time I see myself in the mirror because of the hole that’s still in the bottom of my neck where they put it directly up. My least favorite thing was when the congestion would get so bad that they would unhook the respirator and stick a tube down into my lungs and suck all the phlegm out. I have days when they would have to do that every half hour all day long. Anyways on to better times thanks for the heads up on the new speaker he’s making. I didn’t know anything about it I think I may give him a call next week and see what they’re thinking about production and availability. I’ll let you guys know any information I find out.Hope you’re back up to 100% soon!

Hey MC, what are your thoughts on this speaker from Eric. It’s called the polycell
https://www.tektondesign.com/polycell-15.html

Eric told me they were designed for headbangers. He told me I would hate them. I said I liked the 2 15” woofers and the cabinet size. I asked him if he could put the tweeter array from the Moab in there instead and he said he would. He had to make some changes and told me to call him tomorrow and have an answer for me. I think he was checking availability on a different Twitter to get the same output as the woofers. I’ll find out more tomorrow.

When you call just let the phone ring and ring and ring. If Tammy is busy then it rolls over to Eric‘s cell phone. I called her three times today and every time got somebody