Tekton Design Moab

arctikdeth-

Why all the tweeters?
is it just a design thing?Would the array take away from a nice 6-7” midrange for guitar?

The tweeter array is a patented invention of Eric Alexander and unique to Tekton speakers. Eric is a professional drummer and speaker designer who was frustrated and trying to understand why speakers never sounded anything like live musical instruments. 

One day he had an insight. A violin string playing 440 Hz also produces harmonics at 880, 1760, etc. A whole series of harmonics that we audiophiles call harmonic structure or timbre. Each instrument has its own timbral signature. Its one way we tell one from another. Speakers smear and muddy over these details making it hard to tell one instrument from another- oh and, blurring imaging, damping dynamics, losing efficiency.   

The note we are trying to reproduce is coming from a violin string. Eric took the violin string, cut just the length that makes the tone, and found it is only about a third of a gram. Eric had the brilliant insight that speakers sound the way they do because we're asking 30 grams of moving speaker cone and coil to reproduce 0.3 grams of violin string. Of course dynamics and harmonics are going to be lost! Of course the details go missing! 

The truly brilliant part though was figuring out we don't have to use one high mass driver. We can use a lot of low mass tweeters instead. 

You asked about a nice 6-7" midrange for guitar? The tweeter array in the Moab is equivalent to a single 9" midrange driver!  

Don't look at the Moab as a 17 way speaker. That's not what it is. Viewed correctly it is a three way. Fourteen of the tweeters aren't really tweeters, they are one 9" midrange. Only the one tweeter in the middle is actually a tweeter. 

People complain these are standard off the shelf tweeters. Well, duh. That is not the point. The genius is not in building the next best super expensive driver. The genius is in understanding you want to accurately recreate the sound of something low mass, it can only be done with something low mass. 

This probably more than anything else explains why so many are in love with ESLs. Very low moving mass. ESLs unfortunately are one technical problem after another. Eric's tweeter array takes standard off the shelf affordable and easy to drive speakers and makes them sound like an ESL, only better and with none of the disadvantages. It is pure genius. 

The kicker is when Eric takes apart one of his tweeters, cuts up just the moving parts- the soft dome and the coil- and weighs them they come in at about a third of a gram. Same as the violin string! Eric now has a driver of about the same mass as the source of the sound it is trying to reproduce. So of course it sounds good!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xMt6Wj9JE&feature=emb_logo 

Everything flows from this one design principle. Incredible detail pops out transparently, hard edges and listener fatigue vanishes, dynamics flow effortlessly, the most complex harmonic structures naturally rendered. All because Eric figured out how to make a 1" tweeter perform like a 9" midrange. Genius. 

@millercarbon congrats on the acquisition those are some massive speakers and I bet they will sound great.

Can not wait for your review of those beasts.  

Thanks. Me neither. Especially now that I just sold my Talons. 

Like I said before I do a ton of research and mull things over for a very long time, but its not like I bookmark and cross reference everything and so today at work I'm killing time and the Audiophiliac is interviewing this guy and he's going on and on about all his favorite speakers, and this guy has a LOT of speakers, and other stuff, and I'm really getting worried because man he REALLY likes his Maggies and Snell and wow maybe I blew it until all of a sudden 5:55 into the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RxRTFx6Cd0

Its not on the website. Only the Be option. The rest you have to call or email. To be honest it would probably be unfair to quote a price. Not trying to be mysterious or anything. I get the sense Eric is one of those guys constantly moving so fast nobody can keep up. 

Give you an example. He mentioned mine would be, I forget the term generation or whatever. Scan speak couldn't keep up with his volume. So he switched to a better tweeter. Reminiscent of Porsche where you order the RS and it comes with a bunch of cool stuff nobody ever mentioned. 

Anyway there's a sort of standard upgrade with bi-wire I didn't want, and there was initial confusion on my part about tweeter- easy to do in a design with 15 tweeters only one of which is a tweeter. If you get my drift. So at first I thought he meant the Ulf tweeter is better. But no its all 15 tweeters. None of which are Be.... unless you want them to be.... on and on. 

Also at one point when I was clarifying Eric said sure we can do that- pause- it'll be a little bit more but no, I'm not gonna charge you. So to be honest I've paid $4500 and not exactly certain what the extra options will come to, something like $500-650 somewhere in there. But you can't quote me on that, because he is so willing to customize (which in itself is priceless awesome) that exactly what you want will change the price, and even if it doesn't the parts he uses may change either from availability or maybe he just says wow this is better and starts using it.  

My thing is, not after Be sizzle. When Eric (and others) talks about the models having basically the same sound but with greater refinement and sophistication as you go up the line, refinement and sophistication is my grail. In my experience that is quality wire, caps, drivers, etc. 

He has a bi-amp option, didn't come up because its not my interest but I got the impression it wouldn't be much, probably under $200. But... don't quote me on that!!! 😂

Hey, where’d it go? The last MC post has been removed. Hate that. Shudda got the V8. Classic.

Yes but Classic only in the world of grownups who haven’t been programmed to think of themselves as special snowflakes entitled to glide though life able to say and do whatever they want but no one else so entitled. To them I am McCluskey with the flame thrower  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fzsW-YMn_M

Old school grownups learned what makes a review of value is full disclosure. Its why we always list the associated components, describe setup, burn in, all that stuff. Its why this one frequently posts links to his system. So the reader can decide for him or her self what is relevant and how to interpret it. This we called having perspective. Today only one perspective is allowed, all others must be banished, in the name of- get this- tolerance, inclusiveness, and diversity.

Eric must have an upgrade for the Moab that is similar to the $300 upgrade he offers on the Double Impact. It offers Cardas copper inputs, mil-spec wiring, Mundorf caps and Sledgehammer inductors. It’s not on the Moab upgrade pop-up window though.

Mundorf, Cardas, wire, right. Don’t know about Sledgehammer, didn’t come up. Would be nice to have the time to really talk about these things. My few short conversations its clear the guy really knows this stuff inside out.

It makes sense that it would be more like $500 since there’s much more happening with the Moab.

Actually the way I understand it, those upgrades are only about $2-300. The Ulf uses a better tweeter. Not Be just better. Not a lot, in fact he said the difference is hard to hear especially at first but after a while you realize its just better. Which was enough for me! Well it makes sense because when spread the cost of $500 over 15 drivers that is only $33 per hardly like the Be which is closer to $500 per.

There is a lot more happening in all his speakers than meets the eye.

The only example I have personal experience with is my Dayton SA1000 and four 10" subs. With 2 identical amps and four subs I was able to wire them for 4, 8 and 16 ohms. 8 was better than 4 but it was hard to notice. 16 was definitely better than 8. Not huge but enough there was no doubt. This however is a bit different situation as its a solid state amp with one speaker connection not a tube amp with taps for 4 and 8 ohms. Raven told me its really splitting hairs between the two amps.  

I would think the situation with the Moabs 2 woofers would be very similar to the subs and 8 would be very marginally better than 4. But its close enough its one of those situations where "what do you mean by better?" If better is louder then 4 should play just a bit louder. If better is tighter more articulate then the higher impedance has a bit of an edge. If that's all we're talking about, the main difference between Ulf and Moab is the Ulf has extra mid-bass drivers. Eric said the bass from the Moab is a bit more articulate. This is probably why. 4 ohms might add just that teensy bit of warmth there. Hard to say. 

What I guess I should ask Eric is how much of that impedance change is due to the array, and how do they sound different 4 or 8 with tubes? The tech stuff Ralph knows is all well and good but I've been around the block with tech more than enough to know it doesn't always tell the tale. Listening however almost always does. The advantage I've heard in higher impedance has been in the area of making the speaker a shade less warm and a tad more articulate. In terms of articulate, speed, etc, Tekton already are compared to stats. It may well be the last thing they need is more by way of impedance. Dunno. Interesting question. 

Just had a nice conversation with Eric. Actually would’ve been longer but all of a sudden this machine motor thing sound goes off he says gotta bounce...So what we got so far... (reconfigured to my inimitable style):

With tube amps there’s two aspects- the speaker, and the taps. The biggest difference with taps is the volume control. Not the volume you hear, the knob you turn. So you change the taps, it affects the volume. On one tap you may have to turn the volume up "louder" to reach the same loudness as on the other tap. The sound is virtually the same, its just very hard to tell because volume has so much to do with how we perceive sound, and with the levels changing its very hard to be sure you’re comparing the same levels. (With stepped volume you probably never can get the levels to match exactly.) I’m taking what Eric said and restating it in my own words of course but pretty sure that’s an accurate account of it.

So that’s the taps. Now about the speakers.

I told Eric about my one experience with subs where I liked the 16 ohm sound the best, because the bass was so tight and articulate. Eric totally agreed. But not the way I thought he would.

This is where the conversation got really interesting. Eric said okay you know I’m a professional musician, so now I am gonna take off my audiophile hat for a minute. And proceeded to tell me about a whole bunch of different speaker designs, how AR figured out how to use the box as a spring to control the woofer, impedance as damping, and so on. He used the metaphor of his Corvette with adjustable suspension and how the sport setting is so responsive but you do not want to drive it all day. Which I said is a great metaphor, because how do they change the settings? By controlling the valves in the shocks, which is to say the damping factor, which is impedance. Bingo!

Eric being a musician first is on a quest to make speakers that are able to reproduce the sound of actual musical instruments. Which he knows, having been around them so much. Which connected with me, having played French horn and been in band hearing live instruments up close and in person every day for years. Nowhere near his experience but close enough to see where he’s coming from.

Okay. So anyway Eric feels the high impedance sound is over-damped, in other words too tight, as compared to the real thing. He can wire them for 8 but doesn’t recommend it, says they’ll lose 3dB and sound timid. I want efficient, not timid, and trust- no, am convinced - the man knows what he’s talking about. 4 ohms it is.

Yes speedbump6 you are right I have no quarrel with anyone who disagrees. When however the disagreement is made in a way that is patently absurd or misleading however I reserve the right to point out the patent absurdity. Like posting pictures of old speakers pretending this proves... what? Its so lame I don’t even know. Proving the poster just doesn’t get it, I guess. (Scroll up a few pages raysmtb1, you are far from original- and equally far from relevant.)

Here’s the thing a lot of these people just don’t get. The world is full of really really good information. Its not like it used to be, where one guy figures something out and then six months goes by, letters, horses, and ships, another guy finds out. The problem today is filtering all that information down into something useful, actionable.

The information is there. Even in this thread. Yet even smart experienced people can miss it. Like larryi, he wrote a great post, really knowledgeable and balanced. Educational, even. Then next post with the pleated surround comment, doesn’t seem to get that one at all. (Its in the video- low transverse friction.)

Its not the number of speakers- although in the case of the tweeter array (or mid-bass drivers, or woofers), sometimes it is. Its not the shape of the surround- according to Eric its the low transverse friction of the surround, the high compliance of the whole thing. Its not that the drivers are flush mounted- although this does contribute to stiffness and time alignment. And we haven’t even gotten to the crossovers. I can only imagine the way people will try and twist that to fit their predetermined narrative- rather than try and understand what is going on and why it works so well.

Because really, when we get right down to it, that is the one thing we really do know for sure- it works really well. We know this as certain as we ever can because as speedbump6 so eloquently put it, "I doubt so many people would drink the koolaid, when people inherently like to complain when their expectations are not met."

Really appreciate all the comments geared towards a better understanding.

We live in dark times. An extraordinarily accomplished and respected is called a dishonest shill for reciting law and history. The CDC reports the fact a virus is less than ordinary flu for those under 60, this is ignored. A man says we don't need to shut down the country for less than the flu, he is attacked. The least informed feel the strongest and most compelled to do the attacking. 

(Oh and someone brings up the pandemic in my thread, I respond to it, I'm the one these deranged people say brought it up. Go ahead. Scroll up. Read. See who said what first.) 

It sure seems to me all the evidence is whichever impedance is better its a pretty close call. Would probably need to have them side by side to say. Even then might need to compare running the 4 ohm off the 8 ohm tap, and the 8 ohm off the 4. Something like that.

I think you were editing while I was posting. 

If 100,000 dead is fake news,

Yeah, fake because its supposed to be twenty times 100,000. Fake because now even the CDC reports its less deadly than a normal run of the mill flu. Fake because all the same fake news that said its okay to fly now say its not okay even to leave your house. The tragedy is all the same people who thought we should ignore it back when it would have done some good not to, now insist we must alter every aspect of everyone's lives now that we know all we really needed to do was protect the nursing homes. If you're gonna troll, get it right.

probably 40-50% in NY were from putting people in nursing homes who should not have been there.

Right. Cuomo required by executive order that nursing homes must accept Covid positive people. 
tvad-

Changing the amplifier taps changes the image size, dynamics and bass punchiness. 8 ohm taps provide a more lifelike, dynamic and larger image than 4 ohm taps, which tends to produce a punchier sound. My experience changing the taps on a KT88 push pull amplifier was similar. The change in sound in both cases was significantly more than simply volume level, and it was easy to discern.

Now that's more like it. This is just the kind of thing I'm looking for. Kind of thing I would have gotten around to with Eric if we had more time.

So this is changing taps on the same amp and speaker. Easy enough to try once I get mine. What I am curious to know is have you tried the same speaker where everything was the same only it was wired differently to achieve different impedance?

Right. So bear with me if you know all this, some may not and I want to be sure we are on the same page. Any given driver has its own individual impedance curve. A speaker with one driver at 4 ohms it is what it is. A speaker with several drivers however, the impedance will change depending not only on the drivers but how they are wired- in series or in parallel.  

With my subs for example, with 4 identical drivers I was able to wire them in series, and in parallel, and compare the difference. Since they are the same exact speakers and amps the only difference is impedance, which is how they are wired. 

Okay. So Eric with all his speakers has multiple drivers of the same type and this enables him to change the total impedance of the speaker by doing nothing except wiring certain drivers in series or parallel. That is how he allows you to choose 4 or 8 ohms. Technically this could be changed by me after the fact but there really is a lot more going on than meets the eye and even if there wasn't let's face it I have no desire to go messing around with the maze of wires inside there. 

So anyway that's the question. You have heard the difference between taps with the same speaker. But have you wired the same speaker in series and in parallel to hear the difference only impedance makes in the same exact speaker?

I too am interested in the Moabs. So I just read the 6 Moons review and it said they sounded best 16’ off the front wall, 4’ off the side walls and his listening chair was 9’ from the speakers.
Does this mean that if my room isn’t at least 25’ deep, or they won’t sound their best?
What size is your room? 

My room is 17x24x9 https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
I'm with Eric, room size doesn't matter, matching speakers to room size is another audiophile canard, a view I came to long before I heard Eric saying this. 

Where you put the speakers - and equally important where you sit- is in my view down to three main things. One is bass response. Closer to walls reinforces bass but also tends to make uneven bass. Another is imaging. Closer than about 3 feet side reflections arrive too soon and this tends to hurt imaging. Same with the front wall. Third is the direct/reflected balance. A little reflected room sound can add a sense of spaciousness - if its the right sort of room sound. But really the most important thing to know is none of these are carved in granite. They are all trade-offs. So where some guy puts his speakers in his room means next to nothing in terms of where you'll put yours in your room. Even though they are the same speakers. Even if all the other components are the same. Even if the room is the same! His taste and yours may not be the same. 

I spent forever and ever moving speakers around, and listening chair around, until finally landing on where they are now. That was all with speakers only a fraction the size of these monsters. The Moabs will be going right where the Talons are. I will experiment with toe in. That's about it. I have learned to not sweat the small stuff. Others may disagree. Ask em again after they blow out their L4.

Chuck, congratulations on your new Moabs!  I know you like to tweak, but make sure you get plenty of help moving them — hernias don’t aid listening enjoyment.  And when you are settled in, invite us all over for a beer!  Cheers!

They're only a little taller and heavier than the Talons, and I've moved those around a lot. My concern is when they're still boxed up, moving them around, unboxing. The Talons were crated so big they had to be uncrated in the garage. These I hear are packed smarter, but still pretty big. And heavy. But I will figure it out. I changed a water heater, made it fit into a Honda, took it to recycling. By myself. I can do it! 😂

Sorry tvad, that Master Set thing is a joke. An old, stale, and very bad joke. There is no such thing as a "stable music image that is the same from any seat in the listening room" to quote from the article. Sorry.

Yeah well everything does matter. Doesn't mean everything makes as much difference as every other thing. There's only so much time and money, and so we prioritize. 

The Moabs are not by the way a radically different speaker. Not in terms of placement. Not in any way that I can see. 

Check it out. One tweeter, about the same height as the last one. All those tweeters above and below, at the wavelength they cover they operate as one 9" midrange. With half above and half below they are effectively one 9" midrange mounted at the same level as the tweeter. The lower woofer is almost the same position as the Talons was. Only now there are two. Which we know from having a DBA we do not localize them below 80. My understanding is they cross over in the 150-300 Hz range. Within that range where we can localize they are mounted above and below so again, same thing, appear to be coming from the same level as the tweeter. 

No wonder all the comments about their remarkably coherent sound. 

The two main reasons to experiment with speaker placement are tone or frequency response, and imaging or soundstage dimensions. In terms of frequency response we already explained how they are functionally virtually the same as the Talons. Where they differ will mostly be in the low bass, which can all be much more easily fine tuned with the subs than by moving the Moabs around. You may notice I have a 5 sub DBA. 

The bass for sure will need adjustment. Can hardly even imagine the awesomeness I have in store in the bass department.

That leaves toe. Which I already said will call for some trial and error. Although even there a lot of guys wind up with exactly what I had, pointed to converge on a spot just a little ways further back than they sit. 

Good to hear. Do you think the warmth was due to the wood, or raising them the additional 2"? 

They are threaded for and come with spikes. Do you know if the threads are 1/4-20? 3/8-16? 

This "bully" who goes by millercarbon is a neanderthal who would never dream of whining about his poor hurt feelings, mommy I just want to make friends why won’t the other kids play nice mommy? (Although in this day and age he knows he should insert a Seinfeldian, "Not that there’s anything wrong with that" because he knows that these days we are no longer allowed to speak the truth without also making apologies for it. I exist. I know I shouldn’t. Sorry. Etc.) He also could not possibly care less for virtue signaling. He knows he’s not a special snowflake.

He’s a grown up who came here not to meet people, which would be mental, but to learn from their ideas, which could be beneficial. This being a print medium all you can meet is ideas, as expressed in words, as crafted by the people who post them. Millercarbon is the kind of guy who views this as sanity, recognizing the difference between virtual, and actual, reality. When he wants to meet people he goes out and actually, you know, meets them.

From the ideas presented here he’s learned about DBA, Herron, HFT, TC, fO.q, and a bunch of other stuff. And now, Tekton.

He never came here to be coddled. Why? Did you?

Excellent. They only need to be finger tight anyway. Speaker weight does most of the holding, the stud merely keeps the cones from shifting. I'm all for saving money where you can but hopefully they are anchored securely enough to tilt without breaking. Those Gaia footers put considerably more leverage force into the studs than the BDR Cones I will be using. 

Were yours a standard color or high gloss, and how long did they take to deliver?

I'm anxious to hear them too! 

Thanks. No grills. Upgrades I just heard about reading reviews and comments, then asking Tammy and Eric. Having myself modified speakers with new crossovers, internal wiring, vibration control and so on, I know how much difference it can make. Some can be done later but some like internal wiring is near impossible to do later. Nobody will ever do a side by side to know for sure of course, just kind of have to assume its worth it, which based on my experience it has to be.

What got me was so many comments from so many different people all centering around the theme of being incredibly detailed yet smooth and natural, a sense of ease with the speaker coasting along even at high volume levels, of being drawn in and listening for hours losing track of time. I saw comments from women who came to tears listening to Stevie Nicks, it sounded so good. Another reviewer his wife said they don’t sound hifi, because you can hear the singers voice. Hifi speakers on the other hand you hear the spittle in the corner of her mouth. Like they are competing to hear the spittle instead of the singing. Whole lot of comments like that.

The other thing that got me was the negatives. The criticisms were all the right ones, from all the right people, for all the right reasons. By right of course I mean wrong.

So many get caught up in the tweeter array they miss that there is something greater going on. Much greater. Because as so many have noticed, these same qualities are evident across the whole Tekton line. Many of which do not have a tweeter array. Clearly there is a lot more going on, or you wouldn’t have gotten sucked in to the Lores like you did. So eager to hear for myself.

I haven’t studied the Encores. Was initially aiming Ulfberht. Talking to some who have compared it seems Moab comes very close and for half the price. The Encore being between them would really be splitting hairs.
Other than the obvious differences in drivers there’s some less visible differences in parts.

Eric makes the comment they all have his "house sound" you just get more refinement and sophistication as you go up the line. Well, how do you get refinement and sophistication by adding some 7" drivers? You don’t. What you get is a more even power response. Better caps, wires, and higher quality drivers, that’s how you get refinement and sophistication. So I requested higher quality parts and drivers. The difference between my Moabs and Ulfs will probably be confined to some small lack of emphasis in the 90 to 180 Hz range, something like that, but even if its twice what I think it is, I’m gonna pay another $4k for that? Not made of money. Pass.

That’s practically a Raven Osprey there. I’d much rather have Moabs and Osprey than Ulfberhts and Melody. Not even close.

glupson-

Tekton Moabs are large speakers.

Indubitably, Mr Holmes. And earlier you noted your one objection was the difficulty of shipping them back, in case of return. But how else are you going to do a home audition? I mean even from your local audio salon the speakers still need to be packed, loaded, unpacked, set up, etc. Only thing different if they go back to Tekton they get boxed up and taken back to a shipper instead of a store. 

Thanks. The DI's are one of the most universally acclaimed speakers in memory. While looking into Moab I kept coming across guys like this who absolutely love their DI's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RxRTFx6Cd0=640s When you say large grin, hope so!

david_ten-
How would it be impolite? Horses for courses.

Shalommorgan-

Millercarbon. What are your thoughts about Moabs with all BE tweeters, cost aside? I know the BE tweeter is an upgrade option.

Eric is a total speaker builder, by which I mean he’s willing to build pretty much what you want. That said his normal options for tweeter upgrades are one Be tweeter, or all tweeters Be. The expensive one on the site is all of them. Without auditioning I go like everything else by interpreting others comments, here there and everywhere. Those led me to believe I would not prefer the Be, not even just the single tweeter, not even at no additional cost. That’s just me. Not saying anything wrong with it, just its not something I want. What tiny sliver of doubt I may have had evaporated talking with teajay who again said nothing bad just helped confirm what I already was thinking.

Instead of Be my tweeters, all of them, will be upgraded to the tweeters used in the Ulf. Unlike the Be which is a big price bump even just for one these are about the price bump of one but for all. So only something like $20-30 per tweeter more. As I recall Eric said the difference is not obvious, but its there. Somewhere else along the line I heard him say his speakers get more refined and sophisticated as you go up the line. I simply put two and two together.

Using McCormack DNA-750s’ w 700W RMS @ 8Ohms, and over 1000W @ 4 Ohms.!

I’ll say. That is almost like having a 70 watt tube amp!!😉

rixthetrick seems to have a pretty good handle on things. This is probably gonna be counter-intuitive but I agree with everything he said AND that is why I think the Moabs will blend seamlessly as one just the way everyone says they do. Only its not only the listener impressions- which I always prioritize way more than technical factors- but in this case the technical factors actually are behind that as well.  

I've been saying this is really a three way speaker. But the more I think about it the more it seems like a two way. Earth to Millercarbon, there are 17 drivers per speaker, you have lost it! 17 does not equal 2. Finally we have proof the dude is nuts.

I've mentioned this before but didn't really think it through until now. So thanks rixthetrick.

The 14 tweeters in the two midrange arrays are all the same tweeter as the single tweeter-tweeter in the middle. The only things we know about the crossover is Eric has patents and is very proud of them being perfectly phase/time coherent. Lets just assume for the sake of the argument the crossover is good and take it off the table. 

That leaves us with 15 tweeters. All the same. With driven area effectively equivalent to a 9" driver. The crossover is something like 300 Hz, with output down an octave below that. The wavelength at these ranges is longer than the distance across the array, which is why there is no comb filtering and why they function as one driver. 

What we have, in other words, is the seamless coherence of a single driver, only instead of the moving mass of a 9" driver it has the low mass and responsiveness of a tweeter. 

Then mounted above and blow, centered on the same tweeter, are the two woofers. Same thing, they are because of the longer wave length effectively one (larger) driver. 

There is the problem of falloff in output in the upper range of the woofers and the lower range of the tweeter array. A range Eric addresses in the more expensive Encore and Ulfberht speakers. Its easy to see why the Ulfberht must be one truly awesome transducer. Its also easy to see why it costs a great deal more to build than a Moab, and why teajay would tell me he loves his but that really its only that one small octave or so of bass where you hear a difference, and even then its not all that much. 

So yeah, would be cool to have them and have someone bring something over to compare. Been years since I did that. Vandersteen did not come off too well against speakers no one here ever even heard of. Oh well. It will never happen. But it sure would be fun. No matter how it goes.

No desire to upgrade, glad to hear, exactly what I'm going for. Thanks.

I'm 62. These may well be my last speakers. Then with a Raven I will be just about set. Maybe a Soundsmith SG. That will be it for the big stuff and I can look forward to detailing the room, composting, and gardening. 

I continue to thoroughly enjoy the rich sound they produce.

Its comments like that got me interested in Tekton. Rich, don't hear that associated with high end speakers a lot. Thanks!

When ordered on the 22nd was told about a month. Apparently the combination of people being stuck at home, stimulus checks, and a bargain lineup has Tekton just about maxed out on production. Fortunately I am happy with standard Charcoal as the piano gloss finishes involve multiple coats with wet sanding that adds another couple weeks. Was feeling no rush when ordered but the other night my wife was like how about a movie and I was all, with what? No speakers gets old fast.

The Khorus is a fine speaker. But they are essentially a 2-way with a super tweeter. They were still new when Talon came out with the Firebird which instantly made me realize what the Khorus was missing, the midrange. But Firebirds were way out of reach and so I had to make do with crossover upgrades and mods. So here we go from known midrange weakness to expected midrange strength. We will see.

Whatever it is, it will be here, in detail.

And yet in 20 years the Talons in my room earned nothing but compliments, and sold for top dollar and without haggling to the first guy who heard them. So you can say whatever you like. Uninformed opinions are a dime a dozen, and that's me like you trying to be nice. 

Miller, it will be much longer than a month.

Hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me. They are swamped, incredibly busy, and from what I was told are now even max'd out on physical space. So we will see. On the other hand is there anywhere else you can consult with the designer/builder and have your own custom version made to order? At a price easily half or less what it would be through a dealer?

If we somehow in spite of our best efforts manage to not utterly destroy the economy and his business keeps growing its hard to see anything but expansion into new facilities where Eric transitions to a more senior designer/president type role, with prices rising accordingly. Options like I was able to get will be a thing of the past, sacrificed on the alter of efficiency. 

I've never bothered, and never will. No offense, but people who want things measured are their own worst enemies. There never is any satisfying them. Not saying you are like that. But plenty are.

My last speakers were supposed to be 90 dB and they would play plenty loud. Whatever Moabs measure in dB is in a sense irrelevant. What matters is how they compare to other speakers. Whatever it is, its more than now, and so I am sure they'll play louder with the same amp than speakers that already play louder than I need. Whatever yours are, I would take the same approach, and anything around the same level you will be fine.  

In case you don't know there are plenty of low watt SET amp owners saying their Moabs and Ulfs work just fine, and in bigger rooms than yours. So again you should be fine. Search around, you will see.

Gosh glupson as much work as you're putting into this you must be getting ready to order some yourself.

prof- Thanks. I will keep you in mind in case I ever go looking for speakers that measure good.

speedbump6- I’ve worked at start-ups, and fast growing companies. Its a tough game. Especially speakers. Like you said, many hats. He needs a painter with mad skills like someone Chip Foose or one of your L.A. custom shops would have. He needs either skilled cabinet makers/woodworkers or expensive equipment. Or both. Assembling crossovers seems easy enough, but even soldering is a fine skill, if you want it to sound as good as we do, and last. Then there’s phone answering, production scheduling. That's a lot of hats. 

When you’re small you do it all. At some point though you have to either hire and train, or be like Schroeder and make people wait a year. My hunch is Eric really loves building speakers, and by that I mean realistically affordable ones not Faberge eggs, and so one way or another he will figure out how to keep doing that.

In standard colors, satin finish, and trim, $4500 delivered. There's a range of options including piano gloss paint in any color https://www.tektondesign.com/moab.html

I'm thinking the way to find the center of mass is put a dowel crosswise and carefully lever it up. Mark the spot where it rises evenly, that's close enough. Then build a plinth with enough extra in front to balance level on springs. With level adjustment it won't have to be perfect just close. Making them bigger like that getting them on there should be a one man job. Lay em down with the bottom on the plinth, stand em up, and then wiggle into position.

We who are of a certain age lived through a decade or more of amplifiers that measured great but sounded bad. Mostly amplifiers but the same measurements were applied to a whole lot of things. Its the same with cameras where they make megapixels sound so important, until you go on Ken Rockwell and read at length why megapixels don't matter. https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm Not trying to go OT into cameras just another example of how misleading tech specs can be.

still seems to me if I have x drivers of mass y and all x work together the total mass at play is now x*y, not just x. 

Correct. Your math is impeccable. Physics, not so much. I made the same mistake myself at first. 

We've gone over this with speakers so I will switch to Eric's preferred metaphor (probably because he like me is a driver) and go with cars. We're tying to move a bunch of people around some very twisty roads just as fast as we can. The traditional approach has been to put everyone in a great big bus and the build a monster NASCAR motor and beefed up F1 suspension and the dang thing costs a fortune and still it has problems handling the twistiest bits of road. 

Eric took all those people gave each one a Ford Escort which is a joke compared to everything else on the road, except for a bus, which is what everyone else is it. So it looks funny but it gets you there faster, and you actually enjoy the twistiest bits the most because it handles way better than any bus ever made. Because its small and light. And yes its better still if you upgrade to the Porsche but really the advantage is being in the car that is small and light all by itself. It doesn't matter that when you add up all the Fords or Porsches they weigh as much as the bus. What matters is each one by itself is very light and maneuverable.

The moving mass of the tuba is the players lips, which if you ever played one (I have) you would know isn't really the whole of both lips but only the part within the mouth piece. The whole tuba is really a horn, literally! Sousaphone, kettle drum, same thing. The moving mass of the drum is the drum skin. Which ain't much.

But the idea is not to match the mass of each instrument. The idea is that you cannot accurately reproduce all the rich harmonics of a low mass moving part with a high mass moving part. Physically impossible. Which is true. 

That’s not what I said. Read it again. Its not just wire and internals. The drivers are different as well. Mine are being upgraded with the Ulf tweeters, all of them. This is all very clearly explained in this thread, the idea of which is to help people considering a pair with information.

Speaking of which:

The sound of a 7" driver is fundamentally different than a tweeter, and no amount of massing tweeters replaces what a 7" can do.

As a matter of fact the 2 tweeter arrays on both the Ulfberth and the Moab are the equivalent of a 9" midrange.

What you might have said is that in the Ulfberht Eric applies the same small light driver array principle to the mid-bass by using four 7" mid-bass drivers. This fills in the power response in an area where the tweeter array is trailing off, and the large woofer isn’t as good either.

Which is why I already said this earlier, even using the same language, power response. Its perfectly clear to everyone I am not ordering Ulfberhts. Nor do I think the Moab’s I am getting are equal to Ulfberhts. There is no wishful thinking involved at any point, anywhere. Its perfectly clear, as stated numerous times by many different people, that they come very close for a lot less. Mine with these mods come even closer. That is all.

As a matter of fact it does. You claim I rejected something I never did, and threw the wishful thinking insult in there as well. If you like I will be happy to cut and paste and go through the whole thing in detail. While it might help a few to better understand the choices a speaker designer makes it won't help your position any. 

phusis-

Interesting choice with your upcoming Tekton Moab’s. Just going by the specs, driver configuration and sheer looks of these speakers I take it physicality, scale and ease would enter the stage more significantly compared to your current main speakers, and at a very fair price it seems. Perhaps I should go through the thread before posing any questions that might’ve been covered already, but what’s your overall motivation choosing the Moab’s - what do you expect or hope will change with them?

Great comments and questions! Excellent!

Both speakers Khorus and Moab there is more than meets the eye. The Khorus is an isobaric design. Directly behind the outward firing woofer is another identical driver inside firing the opposite direction. This second driver greatly improves transient response. Still it is a very large driver to be handling the midrange. It looks like a 3-way design but really its a 2-way with a super tweeter. The strength of the Khorus was its seamless smooth midrange. Its also very dynamic, and images quite well. The only speaker of the time I ever heard that I would have preferred were Eggleston and Avalon. The Eggleston was superb but way too inefficient to even consider. The Avalon was out of my league, price wise.

Still I saw right away the Khorus midrange was its weakness. Wait- didn’t you just say it was its strength??! In some ways yes. But it never was open, present, effortless. Just merely better overall than others at the time.

Which, remember, was 20 years ago. Gradually, one at a time, every single thing in my system has been improved, or replaced, and not baby steps either but as one guest put it great strides. Only the amp and speakers remained. It was a close call. Until very recently it could have been Prima Luna or Raven. Now decisively Raven but things weren’t so certain at the time I was ordering.

With speakers however there never was anything else even under consideration. The reason is everything everyone else makes is just everything everyone else has ever made, only better. Fundamentally its all the exact same stuff. And yes I know this triggers some and if you read through the thread you will find their misunderstandings posted for all to see. For the record, you are granted patents for inventing, not rehashing. Tekton is doing something new. As with all new things its hard for some to get their minds around it.

But you can read all about the technology. My thought process is pretty straightforward. The weakness of my speakers was a midrange hampered by the mass of the driver. Isobaric only goes so far. The Moab is really a true 3-way speaker. Conventional tweeter, 9" midrange, woofer. The 9" midrange being comprised of a 14 tweeter array is in my way of thinking a distraction. The point is its a freaking awesome midrange the likes of which has never been seen before. Sorry, should have posted a trigger warning. But it is. So there.

What I fully expect will change is the midrange, the whole presentation really, will be more open and present, with less of the hardness and glare that I currently have. (Hardness and glare are relative- no one has ever said that about my system, quite the opposite. I’m hearing it all the same.) The Moabs will be even easier to drive, and a good deal more dynamic. Almost unbelievably so, I suspect. Not really sure of those big boxes disappearing as well. Then again based on comments maybe so.

My one big question is the cabinets. Being big and flat they have the potential to be a problem. But Eric I’m told has developed internal bracing, and anyway no one has so much as a single negative comment on the cabinets. Sonically. I listen in the dark and could not care less what people have to say about them visually.

Finally, and this time I will give a trigger warning, they sound fabulous on YouTube. Not everyone can do this, but I listened a lot to my phono stage and cartridge via videos and lo and behold when I got the real things in my room they sounded just like they did on the videos.

This is really just like anything else. Any one example you never really can be sure what’s going on. Is it the room, or the mic, the recorder, associated equipment, recording, what? After a while though, whole bunch of different situations, a pattern begins to emerge. And everyone else’s speakers start to sound muffled, closed in, veiled. Its pretty freaking obvious. Go and listen. You will see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2gxy8pvnc8

Then again, could be wrong. We will just have to wait and see.

nice Moab synopsis

Yes. If only more people would pose as academically above it all in their repetitious pontificating. The last thing we need is people saying straight up how they feel. Much better to pose as above it all while simultaneously insulting everyone with a different opinion. And to think they call me arrogant and narcissistic. Pot, meet kettle.

If brightness was a concern they'd never even have made the list. Quite the opposite. Reviews and comments consistently note a smooth natural effortless quality that draws you in. Women especially tend to be sensitive to a harsh or exaggerated top end, yet I came across reports of women brought to tears hearing Stevie Nicks on Tekton. Another said she liked hearing the voice instead of every bit of spit and lip smack. Eric does offer a Be tweeter for guys who want a more prominent top end. Pass. But I did order the Ulfberht tweeters, which Eric said, "Its not obvious at first. In fact its hard to hear. But they're better. Let's just leave it at that." He uses them on his top of the line flagship speaker. Good enough for me.

Read through the reviews. Not only of Moab but all the Tekton speakers. Let me know if you can find even one that says the top end is too bright.

Wouldn't it be great though p05129, if Tekton actually really deliver, and represent good science and implementation, and all that millercarbon anticipated was realized? 

Already does, according to pretty much everyone who has bought a pair. And I don't mean just Moabs but all the Tekton. Joined the Tekton Owners Group on Facebook trying to find some nearby to hear, and let me tell you, you think there's fan boys here you ain't seen nothing. The Group is wall to wall gushing with praise and excitement. 

Comments like this shalommorgan  is what has me eagerly awaiting their debut in my system. A lot of people feel the same.

How much are yours toed in? I’ve usually gone with pointed at a spot a few feet behind my head, but others have them almost straight ahead, toed in hardly at all.

Sweet! Never noticed the radius corners before. Did you make the frame mount for the footers? Moabs are threaded for 1/4-20 right?

It took me a while to come around. But then it usually does. There's so many people with so many different preferences its easy to have people rave about something new. But this is no longer new, and yet the raves are more not less. Everyone focuses on the tweeter array. But if it was just the tweeter array then what about all the other Tekton speakers without the tweeter array earning equally consistently good comments? This tells me something more going on, as a lot of the same "open, dynamic, natural" type comments are coming from speakers with different drivers in different configurations and in different cabinets. 

No one thing clinched it for me but if forced to choose it would be the guys saying Tekton combines the best features of ESL, horns, and the very best most cohesive dynamic drivers. A couple different guys said this, and that alone would be one thing but then to turn on a YouTube video and actually hear it, at some point I had to say okay, must be something to it. 

I'm in Redmond. Welcome any time. 

Hey shalommorgan, 
uberwaltz just said they are banana plugs only. I find that hard to believe. They take spades too, right?

When speedbump6 says its all compromises, believe me, its all compromises- and not only with construction and sound quality. The compromises are all because there's only so much time and money to go around. Its amazing how many different Tekton speakers there are, hitting so many price/performance niches, especially considering this is all coming from just one guy- Eric Alexander. Who knows, maybe he even did the website. Don't know. What I do know is even if it wasn't him, still in a way it was because the time and money had to come from somewhere. At this stage of the game that somewhere is Eric.  

So yeah the pictures do leave a lot to be desired. Even me knowing the terminals are on the back, made me look again, almost missed em. Most manufacturers would have a glossy professionally photographed layout detailing not only the terminals but the drivers, with another professionally written narrative chock full of jargon. Audiophools just love jargon riddled narrative. Narrative btw is just a fancy word for story. 


Sorry guys no close-ups. No fancy photography. No White Papers. No narrative. Just a very matter of fact "our emphasis has always been to create the highest-performing, yet cost-effective loudspeakers conceivable". Hard to be truly cost-effective without making certain compromises. 

Tell ya what. When mine come, I'll take the best close-ups I can. Promise.

Cardas, yes, and bi-wire is available but I'm not getting it. 

So many glowing reviews of DI. My understanding is the Moab double array is equivalent to a 9" driver, so the single array on the DI would be something like 5" and that would explain the DI driver arrangement. The two mid bass drivers fill in between the tweeter array midrange and the woofers. 

I just wanted to mention the Moab break-in period.

Right. Everything does this. Fascinating process. Fascinated when first heard, still find it fascinating even after all these years. Sometimes feel its worth whatever the new thing cost just to be able to sit there and hear it changing minute by minute. Yeah. Minute by minute.
Only thing is, its near 20 years. Long time. A whole lot of stuff has gone through this. Amps, cartridges, cables. But no speakers. Not in all that time. So kinda forget what its like with speakers. But whatever. If nothing else it’ll give me a reason to run the CD player. Otherwise

Searching around for info, there's lots of reviews and comments. Every once in a while someone mentions something about the ordering process, or shipping, unpacking, setting up, and so on. But its hit or miss. Even the pro reviews, excellent though they are in some areas they are necessarily space limited. The couple times I tried doing reviews its clear why- the details could fill a book. There are whole "unpacking" videos. They're cool to see and besides, the last thing anybody wants is to ding up the brand new whatever just getting it out of the box. 

Plus this is a big audience. There's people who've done it, people who will, people thinking about it. Learned a lot from that myself already, and good to know you're getting something out of it as well. This whole process from ordering to getting to stable will run several months. So stay tuned. 

Glad you like it. Thanks!

Most of these posts are way over the top for a speaker that a lot of these posters have never heard.

But its okay for you to pontificate on a whole range of speakers you never heard, and drag in a bunch of CEO's you've never talked to. Thanks for clearing that up for us.