Technics 1200 Critic Fremer Praises the newer 1200G

I got that part of why SL1200 was embraced by DJs. In fact, I mentioned something along those lines in another recent thread about it.

More of a question would be what qualifies a turntable as an "audiophile". If it is speed stability, that should not be that hard to achieve in 2018 and most of the relatively decent ones (not little plastic boxes rumbling their way) should be "audiophile". In my, very layman, view, torque should not have that much impact after the speed is finally achieved. I admit, I might have just written something entirely stupid out of almost utter ignorance of turntable technology.


Now, when you mentioned Luxman, I have my eye on their latest turntable just for the looks. The only reason why I have not bought it is the belt drive. I am sure it is great, but the idea of having to change belt is not that appealing no matter how simple the procedure it is. I really do not care if it does or does not have torque or if it is "audiophile" or not. I have a feeling that all these machines actually perform very close to each other. Of course, after a certain threshold of quality.

I am not arguing about which sounds better, I have no clue about it, but was just referring to that sentence about the torque. It was probably written quickly so it ended up clumsy, but the fact is that Vestax has a higher torque and beats Technics at that particular thing while the sentence claimed the opposite. That is all. I did not really think deeper than what is written.

Companies like Vestax released higher torque dj turntables, but no one can beat Technics as this is the original product with legendary status that all of them trying to copy.

I am not trying to start any fire and have never even heard of Vestax, but this sentence implies that Vestax already beat Technics. At least when it comes to torque. I doubt than anyone truly needs more torque than 40-year-old Technics DD turntable has, but still....Vestax has more.

But for $1700 Technics with SL1200GR can satisfy both (audiophiles and vinyl deejays).

I may be seriously interested in 1200GR so do not dismiss me just yet. However, I have been asking on forums, without much success, to find out what makes a turntable "audiophile". Why would this one satisfy DJs and "audiophiles" while some other one would not? I am trying to learn as I see these "audiophile" statements thrown around a lot, but no substantial answer.

atmasphere,

are we the only two people out there who think a new design would have been a better idea?

roberjerman,

I think that both of these turntables have their place in the market. I have no experience with new SL 1200 (GR, G, GAE), but, from what I hear, they are impeccably put together. I have experience with Pioneer, a friend of mine has it and I have played with it, in fact got it out of the box and set it up for him. It is great but if I wanted to be picky I could find a few things that feel imperfect. Platter somehow feels light and is a little bit, just the tinniest little bit, off balance. If you watch closely, you can see the edge going up and down slightly. I have no idea if Technics is better than that. By the way, it does not influence the sound no matter how hard I listen.



Pioneer can surely produce decent turntable for $700 and I am sure that Technics could do the same. There may be some additional expense incurred on fit, finish, and actual materials used and price of labor (China vs. Japan). There may also be some cost in research and all that goes in before the production. I also do not see too many ads for Pioneer, but have ran across many for Technics and that must cost something. Lastly, as in most of the products on any kind of market and especially for products as, realistically, unnecessary as a turntable is in 2018, there is a price inflation for cache of the brand and perceived higher value. In a sense, cashing in on better material, more adds, "fancier-perceived" product, and coolness of lineage from 1970s. It happens in all kinds of products so it happens here, too. Louis Vuitton bag will not carry books any better than a $20 bag from Chinatown store, but it costs a bit more. Both have their clientele.

One thing that seems to me to be going in favor of anybody buying a Pioneer is that it can be easily bought. Technics is somehow missing in stores, even websites. I would like to see and feel one, but no luck.

I have no idea how close Pioneer is to genuine SL 1200. I do not know which one would be genuine in the first place. There have been many SL 1200 models by now. There are even a few current ones, ranging from $1700 to more than double of that. I wonder if, in case Pioneer does not fare well when compared to the cheapest current Technics, it is even a fair comparison. It is almost 2.5 times cheaper. Compared to a current genuine expensive SL 1200 it is almost 6 (six) times cheaper. If the difference is obvious, is it Japan vs. China issue, "Pioneer clone" vs. "genuine Technics", or "more affordable" vs. "it costs a lot" issue? I do agree they look almost the same, but they do not seem to be in the same category at all.


For those who just read the thread, but have not had a chance to lay their hands on the Pioneer 1000, it is quite a substantial piece. Yes, you can feel it is not a million-dollar product, but it is put together quite well and screwed tight. If money is not an issue, I would go with Technics. If money was tighter, I would not mind buying Pioneer.

By the way, has anyone noticed that it is relatively hard to find these new Technics turntables for sale, not to mention for a listen? Or maybe I am looking at all the wrong places.

Is Pioneer really any more of a clone of an old Technics than a new Technics is?

Just because it has a Technics sticker on it does not mean it is a direct descendant of something from the past. I wonder how many engineers that invented the original worked on the latest model? As many as at Pioneer? Visual design rights may be something to talk about on the companies level, but that is another topic. Once it is not an original, everything could be considered a clone. 2018 Honda Civic is a clone of a Mercedes from 1886, or whatever year it was.
 
We need a Pioneer clone in 2017 because it is $700 vs. the cheapest Technics which is $1700. Many people are happy that 2018 Honda Civic exists as they find 2018 Mercedes a bit expensive. I am not saying that Technics is not somehow better, but there are many other options in both price ranges so we are really comparing them based only on the looks in this thread.

If you change all that chakster mentioned on an older SL 1200, is it still a Technics SL 1200? I guess, platter and dust cover do count, too. I am not saying you should not change it, just a thought of how many parts can you change and still consider an item what it was called initially.

$4000 is quite a bit of money even if you are in the upper 10% of earners, as roberjerman suggested. In fact, it is a hefty price even for a top 1%. We may pretend that it is all fine, but these things, pretty much everything mentioned around this forum, is inconveniently expensive. It is just that some decide that for them it is worth it and there is nothing wrong with it. But $4000 is a lot for an electric motor, metal tube, and a round metal plate.