Technics 1200 Critic Fremer Praises the newer 1200G

Why the original Technics owner should look for an ugly clone made by Pioneer for pro market? Any old Technics can be upgraded by the owner.

Technics invented this design and it’s a legend!
Other companies just makes clones of this design, they can not make their own design, they do clones of Technics. Why?

Pioneer made some nice DD turbtables in the 70s, they are unique, but now they are selling clones of Technics on the dj market. This is weird!

Now we have a much better Technics made by Technics in 2017, why do we need a clone of an old Technics made by Pioneer?

Everyone needs Mr. Fremer’s review to understand which turntable is good or bad ? Michael Fremer should tell you this ?

@helomech i did actually used Pioneer for a few hrs, it is made like a clone of Technics to make it comfortable for DJs got used to Technics. Pioneer making them primary for deejays like all their gear nowadays (mixers, cdj players etc). They are marketed as a professional turntable for dj use. This is the ONLY reason they are clones of Technics design visually. It’s a tool for professionals, designed to the price tag to make it affordable (and made in china). If someone like the OP already has Technics SL1200mkII there is NO single reason to buy Pioneer! It is pretty easy to re-wire Technics, to replace footers, to buy KAB silicone fluid damper for tonearm or completely replace the stock arm. External power supply also available. Why Pioneer ???

vinny55 

The 1200G is even better than sp10mk2/3 according to specs  

It's hard to imagine than 1200G is better than SP-10mkIII, maybe SP-10R is better or equal, but the 1200G is not Technics reference turntable in the production line, while the SP-10mkIII was the reference for such a long time.  

Well, with all my reapect, i’m really tired about all that Technics talks on audiogon.

I’ve been using my pair of SL1210mkII for more than 20 years for my professional needs, it was modded to deliver much better sound that stock version. I’ve had SP-20 and still got my reference SP-10mkII. Nothing wrong with a DJ or broadcast turntables made by Technics. Worldwide DJ standard for professionals is Technics, not Pioneer or any other clone of Technics with some minor tweaks. Technics SL1200mkII has enough torque and nobody needs more torque. Companies like Vestax released higher torque dj turntables, but no one can beat Technics as this is the opriginal product with legendary status that all of them trying to copy. The marked was flooded when old SL1200/1210mkII and higher models were discontinued. But now Technics returned to the business with a great success, the SL1200GR is about $1700 new (Made in Japan quality) and finally suitable not only for DJs, but also for Audiophiles as an entry level to the new Technics sound. Also available SL1200G and GAE, SP-10R and SL1000R for the most demanding audiophiles.

And the more inportant in this thread:
The OP already bought a Technics, but some users talking about Pioneer for some reason. I just don’t understand it. KAB offers many inexpensive mods, including the one to dump the tonearm inside (which is the cheapest).

P.S. Pioneer made their DJ turntables when majority of the DJs are not into vinyl anymore, they are using vinyl controllers like serato/tracktor to play digital files. Some still play real vinyl. But for $1700 Technics with SL1200GR can satisfy both (audiophiles and vinyl deejays). Imagine the price for them on the used marked soon (at least 30% cheaper) and if you prefer Pioneer (made in china) then i don't know what to say.  

@helomech actually the OP @vinny55 started new (or posted in every old) thread about Technics on audiogon to justify his new purchase - the old Technics SL1200mkII, so he’s got this turntable, what he can do now is to upgrade some parts or even replace stock tonearm. It’s better to advice him how to mod this Technics, than just advice him to buy Pioneer because it’s equal to the Technics which he alsready bought not so long ago.

@glupson

Why would this one satisfy DJs and "audiophiles" while some other one would not?

Pitch control is the key for DJing, that’s why Technics SL1200mkII became DJ standard. You will never find any DJ turntable without pitch control fader. It can be 8% or event higher in both direction to slow down or speed up one tune to another to mix/blend them right. The tempo is the key when few hundred people are dancing infront of you at the disco. Old school DJs used a microphone between the tracks, but since the 70s DJs developed their skills to mix the records. The skills depends on genre of music, but the pitch is necesary to fine tune the records. Technics released pitch control as a fader in SL1200mkII (not as a knob like it was before on their earlier models). This is the reason why modern DJs can NOT djing on any Hi-End turntable, there is no pitch control fader to quickly adjust the speed of the record to mix them together in tempo. This is the answer why High-End/Audiophile SL1200GAE is still a perfect "DJ turntable".

The best coreless direct drive turntables like the Victor TT-101 has lower torque than Technics. Victor has an electronic pitch control +/- buttons, but nor manual pitch control fader like Technics.

My Luxman PD-444 has lower torque that Technics, but i like Luxman much better for home listening. No pitch control, just stable 33/45

In Audiophiles world the speed stability is the key, not the torque.
Victor TT-101 direct drive has an ultimate speed stability, but lower torque.

BTW: Technics SP-10 mkIII has the highest torque ever among any Direct Drive as far as i know!

So the Technics is still unbeatable in terms of torque when it comes to reference models, but there is not pitch control on the reference models. 

What is OK for audiophiles is not acceptable for professional DJs and vice versa. 

@glupson 

Now, when you mentioned Luxman, I have my eye on their latest turntable just for the looks. The only reason why I have not bought it is the belt drive. I am sure it is great, but the idea of having to change belt is not that appealing no matter how simple the procedure it is. I really do not care if it does or does not have torque or if it is "audiophile" or not. I have a feeling that all these machines actually perform very close to each other. Of course, after a certain threshold of quality. 

 
The OLD luxman reference PD-444 motor was made by MICRO SEIKI and it is Direct Drive. I would never use any belt drive.

I think you're right that all reference turntables perform very close to each other, some of them are just practically better, but it's personal preferences, i can swap and adjust the tonearm on PD-444 in 3 minutes, i need maybe another 15 minutes to made absolute alignment of the cartridge with Feickert protractor. No need to drill any holes, screw something to the turntable plinth with that Luxman PD-444. Tonearm and cartridge combination is much more important on those top class Direct Drives, i can not stick to one tonearm, i want to compare the arms on the same turntable. The engineer was a genius in my opinion. And designer was also genius as this is the most elegant DD turntable. I just love when everything made right (usability, design, quality) for reasonable price. Luxman has a long history since 1925. And reputation is Micro Seiki is a top notch too. I was in love with Technics for 23 years, but now i prefer Luxman PD-444 to any Technics i have owned including the SP-10mkII.  

@pryso

since the ealy 80s the SL1200mkII was adopted by professional deejays and became industry standard and still is the industry standard worldwide. ONLY bacause of this FACT this particular model has been sold in 3 000 000 copies like NO OTHER turntable in the world. Some manufacturers tried to jump in to release something similar, but nodoby cares about it, except kids who asked their moms to buy them a dj turntable and if they didn’t started with a Technics they always wanted Technics (and bought them when they could afford it later on). Other companies only tried to release something cheaper, but not better, and it fact the majority of the professionals never asked for anything better, really. Technics sold 3 000 0000 copies of SL1200mkII because of the DJs, Clubs, Radiostations in the 80s,90s and early 00s ... and even today people re-sell used Technics very well for $250-500 They are still in demand for professionals, because it’s a cult status product, the legend. Only DJs made this turntable legendary for millions, not an audiophiles or hi-fi enthusiasts. All DJ mixes, radioshows, video showcases recorded with those old Technics SL1200mkII. And every kid who would like to became an artist/dj was dreaming about a pair of SL1200mkII (when vinyl was main format). Technics was a sponsor of the DMC (Disco Mix Club) championships worldwide, Technics supplied turntables, mixers to those championships. Audiophiles has nothing to do (or very little) in popularisation of these legendary model, because they are not a celebrities, not an artists or opinion makers.

You can repead each time that it was not designed for DJs (and you’re absolutely right), but this is iconic DJ turntable and you can’t argue with it.

Don’t forget that any vinyl DJ needs a 2 turntables, not just one. The price does matter. Also the majority of todays new generation of DJs are on digital, they don’t even buy vinyl.

The SL1200 GAE, G or GR are designed for Audiophiles and they are the target audience for Technics. But they couldn’t ingnore the fact that they sold 3 000 000 copies of the predecessor with very similar look, when Technics desided to return to turntable manufacturing again.  As we can see almost every audiophile would like to buy this new Technics.

So now everybody happy!

@robert_1 

After I listened to the Technic SL 1200GR paired with my cartridge: Goldring MM 1042 while listening to my mobile fidelity album of Santana Abraxas I knew right there and then that I did not need to spent $4000 on the 1200G. The difference was so minimal (a little more open sound stage, and bass) that is not worthy, unless you are too anal retentive  

Good news, Robert