TEAC UD-701 vs NT-505 vs ?

@bhvf , eager to hear about your experience.

Rich post. Particularly appreciate the comparisons to other DACS. Tickled to hear how much you are enjoying new unit.

Yes. That beautiful album was in heavy rotation in my home at one point. Spiritual. Transcendent.

Thanks for pointer to this new Bryston unit. A swiss-army-knife of a DAC, like the Teac UD-701N. In roughly similar price point. Curious to read reviews from parties with greater disinterest and from users.

@arize84 Good to know I am not a party of one on Bartok front.

@bhvf  Curious to hear further thoughts on the UD-701 DAC now that you have had the unit in your system for a while.

@nomorelandings 

Apologies. Put incorrect tag in my previous post.

@nomorelands

Hopefully, the first of many posts!

Appreciate your sober, precise analysis of the merits of the UD-701-N. Few have heard the unit, yet, it appears. So your input is precious.

@lordmelton 

Believe @nomorelandings has history of development of UD-701 correct.

Saw thread on musetec-005 that you pointed to. Got my attention. Rave reviews.

Lack of compatiblity with MQA and relatively new, unknown manufacturer without a US distributor give me hesitation.

I listen mostly to Hi-Res via Quboz but once in a while the MQA version on TIDAL sounds better.

Can't say that I have a lot of technical expertise but did spot that construction of circuit boards in Musetec unit is different from others. Cicuit board material is different- looks like a black foam board as opposed to typical stiff, green circuit board and connectors look plug-n-play as opposed to custom built.

But to repeat I am no engineer or technician so I could be and very possibly am off-base on last comment.

@nomorelandings Thanks for notes on TEAC HR streaming app.

@milpai Appreciate pointers to Dutch and Japanese reviews.

@lordmelton Hope to check out Aurender kit. My dealer used to carry their equipment. Not sure if he still does.

I located open box units of both NT-505 and UD701-N. Former thanks to Dylan, who was pleasure to deal with, at HiDEF Lifestyle in Red Bank, NJ. Expect to receive both units this weekend.

Plan DAC shootout at HiFi Buys in ATL next week. Will be able to compare TEAC units to HiFi ROSE streamer/DAC, Marantz CD Transport/DAC, Chord Hugo and possibly others,with dCS Bartok as a benchmark. 

Hope to be able to add to observations of nomorelandings then.

Peace.

@nomorelandings  Get your tag now. Trust not holding the lives of hundreds in your hands relieves some stress. Curious what filter settings you employed with your NT-505? I I have settled for now on fixed volume (line out) DSD 512 (Upconversion), slow roll off (PCM filter), wide (DSD filter). Also, what's your estimate of burn-in time? I will withhold opinions on sound until I listen further. By the way, I got hold of NT-505 unit with AKM chips, since folks are so enthusiastic about that model.

@big_greg Same questions to you. Peace.

Onto to notes from DAC shootout at my dealer, HiFi Buys in ATL.

First session compared dCS Bartok to Chord Hugo to HiFi Rose RS150.

Setup:

Not sure about how streaming was set-up. Selected music using Roon. I used same set of tracks to test DACs as I did at home.

Believe that pre-amp was D'agostino Momentum. Amp was Parasound JC5. Speakers were Vandersteen Kentos. ICs and power cords were higher end Audioquest products.

I preferred the UD-701 sound over that produced by the RS-150. Given that sound of RS-150 was very similar to NT-505, advantages of UD-701 over RS-150 were very similar to its advantages over NT-505 (see post on 3-19-22 at 5:38 pm in this thread). UD-701, relative to RS-150, was more natural, engaging, and conveyed emotion in music better. Note UD-701 is $4K vs. $5K for RS-150. Discernment of advantages required careful listening but once heard were distinct.

Note my impressions regarding UD-701 at dealer confirmed what I heard at home.

@milpai 

I don't think upsampling to DSD from FLAC is possible. But this is at edge or beyond of my technical sophistication. On page 15 of manual, chart shows 44.1 kHz (FLAC) can be upsampled 8x max to 352.8 kHz.  Delta-Sigma DA modulator sampling freq appears to be set independently of this with options of 128, 256, and 512 (page 25). Conversion of PCM to DSD appears possible by selecting appropriate setting.

Yes. I plan to get another 701. But who knows when that will be given supply disruptions present. Moon Audio has stock. But like bhvf I am not crazy about their terms.

Okay. The results from this listening session were weird. Perhaps they reflect bad taste on my part, a problem with my ears, or a problem with the set-up. (However, in my experience the folks at HiFi Buys know what they are doing.) Hence, I will use terms like and dislike as opposed to better or worse.

I did not like the sound of the Bartok. The soundstage and sounds were large but the individual sounds were diffuse, as opposed to precise and intense. The sound was also somewhat dull and grey to my ears.

I did not like sound of the Hugo. Although notes were precise, the music just sounded wrong and lacked some life. Digital. I had the impression the end of notes were being cut off. (Sustain and decay is supposed to be a strength of the Hugo, so this was also strange.)

I liked the sound of the Rose RS150. Notes were defined. Sound was colorful and live. Engaging. A negative feature was that the translation of the bass notes in Beyonce's Partition. Just sounded weird/wrong.

To circle back to my comments at top, my impressions here are strange. At odds with the glowing reviews of the Bartok and Hugo by many both pro and user reviews and hence my own expectations.

In my defense, when David White of HiFi Buys played a record on the $12K turntable that is part of the set-up in that listening room I could immediately hear what analog fans cherish- big soundstage with big notes with both precision and intensity. Emotive, engaging sound. (I had not listened to a record since I was a kid listening to my father's Bang & Olufson straight arm, lateral tracking turntable so this experience was a revelation.)

There is also some consistency in my preferences. The RS150 employs an AKM DAC, as does the TEAC NT-505. The two units sounded very similar, which speaks well for the NT-505 since it is less than half of the cost of RS150 (<$2K vs $5K).

The second listening session at my dealer put the winner from my in-home shoot-out, the TEAC UD-701-N, up against the winner from the first session at my dealer, the HiFi Rose RS150.

A Bluesound node functioned as the streamer. Audioquest Earth ICs were used to connect both the UD-701 and RS150 to the pre-amp. Settings on the UD-701 were the same as for my home listening tests except for selection of variable line out volume. Volume level adjusting was necessary, since at the 0db line out setting on the UD-701 the signal sent to the pre-amp was stronger than that for the RS150. Listening was done with only the right channel active for both units since left channel on the UD-701 was dead. Other components of the set-up were the same as for the first listening session. Hence, this shoot-out was head-to-head, apples-to-apples.

My plan for now is to purchase a UD-701 when I can get a hold of a unit on acceptable terms. Will report back after two-channel listening, which @nomorelandings promises will be revelatory. Given current supply chain problems, who knows when that will be...

Can report back now. Sort of.

First, want to thank all for a thoughtful, informative, and helpful thread.

There were a couple points that where the thread could have turned to mudslinging and I want to thank both parties for turning away from that and staying civil.

Qualification regarding report is the left channel of the UD-701-N was dead, so I could only do one channel listening with it.

I have not heard of any similar or other manufacturing problems with this model or other TEAC products so I don't take this as a ding against the 701. (See my comments later about its excellent build.)

I also have no beef with Safe & Sound from whom I bought this unit. No suspicion that they sold me dud. In fact, they have been excellent about handling the issue and have promised full refund and paid for shipping back. I am happy to do business with them again.

First will report on listening tests at home. My system is described in my profile. Set-up for tests is described below.

Could not perform direct comparison of 701 to other units (new TEAC NT-505, old Vault 2) because my Audioquest Victoria RCA IC runs as a unitary cable with split into right and light connectors only near its two ends. Therefore, could not connect 701 to RCA IC because the L and R analog outputs on its back are far apart (as a consequence of its dual mono design). Hence, while 505 and Vault were connected to my Parasound JC2 pre-amp via RCA; 701 was connected via AQ Yukon XLR IC, which IMHO are inferior to Victoria and AQ Earth. I also did some listening with NT-505 connected directly to my Parasound A21 amp via Earth XLR IC. I used stock power cables with both the TEAC units. Connection to Internet in all cases was via Wireworld Starlight 8 cable to Ethernet port.

Home Listening Tests...

NT-505 had several advantages over Vault.

More detail. For example, on opening of Bruca Manigua by Buena Vista Social Club featuring Ibrahim Ferrer, the backup horns sound more like individual horns playing together on the 505 than Vault. Same for back-up singers later on in track.

In addition, the layering of instruments and soundstage depth was better on the 505 than Vault.

Portrayal of Ferrer’s voice was somewhat diffuse and I would say veiled or uncontrolled (?) with Vault. With 505, portrayal was more veridical to my ears; it was more precise and intense.

Bass was both more articulate and powerful with 505 than Vault. This was apparent with heavy bass lines on Chic’s Le Freak (Oliver Heldon mix) and Beyonce’s Partition. Also with acoustic bass on Le Herida Oscura from Susana Baca’s new album Palabras Urgentes.

These advantages IMHO were more pronounced on tracks in lower resolutions formats (non-HR vs HR on Quboz). Case in point is Viento del Olvido from Baca’s Travesias. I can’t speak to the technical details but believe that NT-505 has more options for rendering these "low" resolution recordings in high fidelity than Vault.

All that said the listening test made me appreciate how well the Vault renders music and explained why I was very happy with my system as is. Sound is engaging and evokes emotion. The edges of notes of communicated appealingly, For example, edges of guitar notes and other plucked instruments are sharp, appealing and natural (e.g., any track from Samba in Seattle by Bola Sete or Baaba Maal’s Yoolelle - Maman from Missing You.)

I discuss some of the shortcomings of the NT-505 in my next post where I compare it to the UD-701.

PS

The 505 had AKM chips. It was NOT the NT-505-X with Sabre chips.

PPS

Additional notes regarding set-up.

Streaming was via Quboz. Most but not all tracks were Hi-res.

Settings on 505 are thanks to tips from @nomorelandings and @bhvf :

fixed volume (line out) 4x (Upconversion), short delay slow (PCM filter), wide (DSD filter)

I felt that these upconversion and PCM filter settings produced a more natural sound than what I posted previously and 8x upconversion with slow roll off PCM filter. However, differences here are subtle and very likely to vary with listener.

Settings on 701 are thanks to @nomorelandings with modest modifications based on my listening:

8x Fs (Upconversion), fixed volume (line out), 512x (Delta-Sigma Fs), DSD 1 bit (PCM Delta Sigma), Fil 1 (DSD Low Pass Filter Fs).

I felt that DSD 1 bit produced a more natural sound (more weight, higher contrast edges) than the DSD multibit setting. The multibit setting in its defense had more air. Again differences were subtle and likely to differ with listener.

PPPS

Second sentence of last paragraph of post @ 4:00 pm today should read: No suspicion that they sold me dud on purpose.

The TEAC UD-701-N was superior to the NT-505.

It had all the advantages of the NT-505 over the Vault but in larger amounts.

But none of the disadvantages. The NT-505 at times sounded bright and at moments glassy. For example, on Hamadoun Toure from Toumani & Sidiki Diabete the kora notes just don’t sound natural. The brightness moderated with time. I wondered whether I would find listening fatiguing in the long run. Note that I have not seen other users complain of this in their comments, which are overwhelmingly positive. (@o_holter indicated burn-in was important for the 505 so that may improve further with time.)

The 701 just sounded right. Engaging, natural, emotive. Timing, rhythm, flow of music just sound right- makes you move. Inviting to listen to even with only one channel. (That’s tough to do!) Musical notes with intensity and weight.

Hard to describe. Just that feeling of ahhhh... like a new experience that feels like coming home.

PS

This is a side note. But an observation that stands out. On Valsa de Uma Cidade from Samba in Seattle, Sete taps out a four count before the band starts playing. You can hear on this Vault and 505. Less distinctly on the Vault than 505, although on both it is less distinct than on 701, on which the taps have more weight and character. My guess (since I did not have the privilege of hearing the live performance) is that the 701 portrays the original timbre of those taps more accurately. Another observation from this track that stands out is Sete’s use of dynamics to convey emotion come across very clearly on the 701. There is some of that with the 505 but it’s there to a larger degree with the 701.

PPPPS

I promised to comment on the 701 build.

It's an absolutely beautiful unit. I ordered one in black. Thick black aluminum (?) plate on front with beautiful grain. Knobs and switches that feel great to the touch and respond well to your actions. Low profile fins with individual variation in length on side to reduce resonant vibration. Solid. Heavy. A 26 pound DAC!

That weight is not surprising given contents the chassis bears. I won't go into detail here since that's easily available from the TEAC and other websites: four power transformers/coils, dual mono design...

PPPPPS

Other matters call... I will post a breakdown of the listening tests at my dealer most likely tomorrow.

@mantis007 

You own/have owned some awesome systems.

Curious if you have had a chance to compare 701 to PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. That's one I wanted to A/B 701 against but did not pursue in end because of dissatisfaction I see some owners express about Bridge and particularly its corresponding streaming app, along with low probability of PS Audio investing in improving Bridge/app because PS Audio is planning to come out with a new streamer per user posts.

Since BR-20 is mash of BDA-3 DAC and BDP-3 streamer that provides very nice set-up for testing whether separate DAC and streamer are superior to integrated unit.

Maybe an Audiogon member somewhere has conducted that test and will chime in...

@vinylcat 

Delighted that you found unit that brings you joy. Could you say a little more about sound quality of UD-701N, in particular in comparison to other models that you considered.

Cheers.

@rblnr 

Decision to pick up line is telling. Eager to hear your thoughts on comparison to Esoteric counterpart.