I agree with Acuujim. These speakers do set a new standard. My heart beat can be altered by the force that these speakers are capable of in the "nether regions"! As far as the subs go, I have never heard them. I would love to try them if I ever move into a larger room, but in my current set-up they would probably be overkill. When setup properly I have heard that the Roc, in addition to strengthening the bass (which is SCARY),also opens up the midrange. If you do listen with and w/o, please share.
