TAD Reference loudspeakers-How good are they?

Waking up this thread....anyone with more recent and additional comments on TAD Reference 1 Mk I or Mk IIs, please post them!

Go listen and decide for yourself.  To my ear, it's one of the best speaker available!    Checkout the TAD thread on WBF ...

The R1s are excellent speakers. True reference quality. With the right amplifier (minimum 100 WPC, must have an open and extended top end) they are hard to beat. Match made in heaven with the Dartzeel monos.

Thank you all for the feedback!

I've only had the opportunity to hear the Compact Reference, but it left an indelible impression on me.   I would go out of my way to get another shot at hearing those again and for a longer period of time.  The build quality was superb and they sounded wonderful, and boy are they beautiful in the red Birdseye (I think that's what it was).

I own the TAD Evolution Ones.  The speakers I owned previous to the E-1s were Magico V3 and Thiel 3.7.  I have had a very positive experience with the E-1s for the past 8 months. I could not disagree more with those posters who said TAD speakers sound bright or metallic. The sound quality to me is very neutral and comparable to Magico units but there is something magical in the coherence of the mid/tweeter unit. Also the E-1s are more extended in the highs and lows than the V3s.  Before I bought the E-1s I looked hard  at Q3s and S5s but purchased the TADs at less money than either of those. 

The Reference Ones are really great in my estimation and the beryllium midrange is very pure-- making it one of my favorite speakers cost no object. The Compact Ref Ones for a smaller room will be awesome though.  My advice is to shop around as there were significant discounts available from dealers and in the used market the speakers sell for less than half of list.  

Thank you both for your feedback! I believe the finish is reported to be Sapele Pommele wood with Red Birdseye finish very highly polished reminiscent of TIDAL finishes. 

teeshot-

how does the Magico V3 fare against the Thiel CS 3.7?
I have spent some time w/ the Thiel, but not had an opportunity to demo the Magico.

Happy Listening!

I concur,
at this level of price and performance, one most certainly requires audition time in full effect.

I am fortunate to own the TAD Ref 1 for a little over 4 years now.  During this time I have many friends that have brought their preamps, dacs and amps over to evaluate the sound and the TADs have sounded well with all the equipment.  Most equipment that was used would be considered Hi-End.  The only issue is the base control with some tube amps.  I have CAT JL3 Signature Mk2 monos which cannot control the 2 12" woofers well enough.  I also have Pass Labs XA 160.8 monos that do a fantastic job with woofer control.  The 'beryllium concentric driver has a richer sound that delivers a predictable sound that IMHO is fantastic.  I evaluated many high end speakers before I decided on the TAD because they produced a richer sound.

Bugman03: Thank you very much for all of your feedback! It parallels much that I've received privately and have read here and elsewhere. Have a great day!

I wonder if the OP bought this speaker?

Don't know.....audiobrian?

Thank you all for the feedback both on the thread and to those who responded privately.  The choice has been made recently and it looks like I will get to experience these speakers for a long time to come...

@zephyr24069

Please do come back and post some comments for us, even if only a quickie review.  Some of us here still may have a set of TAD in our future :-)

Thank you all for the feedback both on the thread and to those who responded privately.  The choice has been made recently and it looks like I will get to experience these speakers for a long time to come...

Congratulations @zephyr24069!  When I can finally move on from tube amps, I will be replacing my TAD E1 with R1.   SS is getting closer and closer to tubes so hopefully soon :-)

What amps are you planning to drive the R1s?

Will do bcgator once they are up and running and broken in!

knghifi: Will post feedback as noted once I have some them up and running, broken in, etc....I plan on using my existing Esoteric A-02 amp. The nice touch around all this is that this will be the first time I've ever heard my speaker cables and that amp run full-range as the prior speaker and RoomEQ device delegated bass and sub-bass (rather well and with great results) to dual 500W ICE amps in each tower and routed those frequencies over analog XLR to the speaker. The whole experience should be a real event....

I've had the Ref1 in my main system for 3 or 4 years. Very happy with them. Would be interesting to compare them to the current best Magico, Raidho, and MBL.

They can't be all bad as Spectral Audio,very extreme people- use them,among others to listen to their "extreme" products. Happy holidays to all. Pete

and Ayre http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/12/looking-through-solid-ayre-qx-5-twenty-internals-factory-t...

Thank you all for your responses; very much appreciated!

"Tad Reference Loudspeakers" That’s an oxymoron, isn’t it?

And the thought behind this post is what exactly?

Thought?...the thought that every TAD speaker i’ve heard sounds bright and fatiguing. Pioneer...midfi dressed up in Zegna.

Melbguy1, if every TAD you've heard sounds bright and fatiguing, you may want to see someone.  Neurologist, audiologist, witch doctor.  Gotta be a hospital or voodoo practitioner somewhere in your village.   Wishing you a speedy recovery and healthy New Year.

Melbguy1 prefers a thick and dark class A sound of his Vitus electronics so understandable why TAD is NOT his cup of tea.

Heard the TAD ref1 mk1 several times, while an amazing speaker, for some reason I just could not jive with it.  I passed on it.  Probably a good thing because in hindsight, $37K for a used pair of speakers is kind of a lot of money. 

@bcgator, well we'll just discuss high end audio, and you can, uh hum, discuss neurologists, witch doctors and voodoo practioners which seems to be your interest area. Au contraire, it is I who wish you a speedy recovery...

@knghifi, I wouldn't describe Vitus Signature series gear as thick and dark. I would describe the sound as natural/organic and harmonically rich, yes, but not dark. The SS-103 and SIA-025 amps are on the warm side in Class A. The Vitus RI-100 integrated however does sounds a bit dark.

Joey, $37k is $1k short of a pair of Magico S5 Mk2's which would kill the TAD's.

melbguy1: From what I learned talking to many TAD R1 owners, not unlike other speakers out there including your preferred Magicos,  the R1's performance is gated or blown out by the choice of front-end, interconnects, speaker cables, amplifier, etc....I have no doubt that the Be concentric driver whose tweeter section goes up (at least they claim measurement of) to 100 kHz will show the best and worst of whatever is driving it.  All I know is that with my gear and cables, on Day 1 when you (I) would expect the good and particularly 'the bad' to come out and hit you in the face, what i heard amazed me.  I believe I've got a good match of electronics and cables here and I've not heard any of the "harsh, harsh at bigger SPLs,..." type of of issues some have reported.  I just returned home after  5 days of holiday travels, speakers just crossed 141 hours; same deal, no harshness, no downside thus far. Very encouraging... One thing is certain from what I can see and hear with these speakers, throw sub-standard electronics and cables at the R1s and they will let you know it. Drive them with the right top-quality gear and you'll be rewarded (same as any speaker).  

I suspect that may explain what you heard.

Kudos on the Magicos; people say they that model are great speakers. Not my cup of tea in general for the Magico line as a whole,...but that's  what is great about this hobby...there are so many great choices out there!

bcgator & knghifi: Do you have systems posted here with pics?  Also, what amps do you drive the TADs with?

Pehaps I can add some perspective. I currently own the CR1’s and was a TAD dealer around 2010 (which was a dismal time in the economy). I would be happy to demo them in our large sound room here in Mahattan for anyone thinking of buying TAD’s.

I had the speakers on various amps, tube and SS (including TAD’s own). while they were excellent, it wasn’t until I paired them with the recent BHK-300 monoblocks (hybrid - tube input/mosfet out) that I heard the speaker’s real potential (I am a dealer for the PS Audio units).

I have augmented the CR1’s with Velodyne subs (in our own configuration) and super tweeter on top.

While everyone is partial to their system and the flavor of sound they have chosen, I hear very few systems that emulate live small/medium scale live music as this one. While the recent NY audio show had some great rooms (Magico/solution stood out) when coming back and hearing some of the same tracks as in the show, my augmented TAD system presented an entirely other level from what I heard at the show.

For background, i am a fan of Raidho, the Magicos (I have not heard their recent top models but intend to) and Soundlabs.

living in Manhattan and being part of a music scene, I get to hear live acoustic instruments played unamplified in home settings or very small clubs on a weekly basis. While I’m sure that there are speakers that do more in terms of hi fi attributes, (staging, depth, disappearing, etc) to my ear the tad’s (especially augmented in the manner I have done) reproduce the sound of live music better than I almost ever hear it done.

even before ore the BHK amps, I had a musician friend sing over a CRosby stills and Nash recoding (not even a great one) and it was shocking how similar her voice and the recording sounded.

i have played mainstream recordings that on other systems sounded poorly (while audiophile cuts on those systems were amazing) that the TAD revealed inner details that made these recordings into "audiophile recordings" territory.

I’m still in the process of refining the system (the Audioquest Niagara 7000 power conditoned which I sell) brought the system to another level. Currently I’m using incredibly cheap speaker cables and Mogami gold XLR IC’s so I know there is still a tremendous amount of information left to retrieve. (I had the Audioquest wel signature speaker cables on for a demo - wow).

while speakers are a personal choice and everyone has different things they listen for,
i have found the concentric driver placement with beryllium is my cup of tea.

I have heard other high end concentric designs (Blade I and 2) and a new beryllium midrange speaker from another company and none seem to do what Andrew jones was able to do with the TAD. I do like what I heard on Andrew’s concentric Elacs and have gotten some friends to buy them.
We're at 
triodePictureSound

zephyr24069, I'm driving the TAD E1s with ARC REF250SE and Hegel H30 (350Wpc into 8 ohms and 675Wpc into 4 ohms) in the summer. Preamp is VAC SigMKIIa SE preamp.   E1 is 88db @4ohm so easier load than your R1.  My room is fairly large so I need all the power.

emailists, I'm looking into adding 2 REL G1 MK2 subs. How many and model of Velodyne subs are using with CR1?   I NEVER EVER considered subs but I think this is most cost effective improvement until I upgrade to larger speakers. 

Thank you for the feedback; the RELs are great subs. I know others in the US who have the CR1s and drive pair them with JL subs (112, 113, 115, Gotham); I've not heard this as I'm an old REL fan/owner but they seem to love the combination particularly with the additional audiophile-grade crossover....

From my research, close to 100% consensus REL is superior for 2 channel and JL for HT. 

Thanks....back in my subwoofer days with 7.1 HT + 2-ch hybrid, REL was the king for 2-ch integration. Others came and went and tried to measure up but they fell short for 2-ch. Glad to hear it's still that way!  My last REL was a B1 Britannia which had the best of both worlds very well ironed out (IMHO), typical hi-pass integration off amp mains for 2-ch and equally great LFE input for HT.  I realize other subs in the line had this but the front-firing B1 was my favorite in terms of pleasing both sides of the house...

KNGhifi- you should call me sometime -. We can talk about TAD's and 911's, which we see to both have a penchant for.

@Zephyr, ah I don’t think the accompanying amps, front end or cables were at fault when i auditioned the TAD’s. I’ve auditioned them twice, the last time with D’ag Momentum mono’s & a full DCS Vivaldi stack, and the results were the same as the first audition...I left the room after a few tracks. By then my ears were bleeding. Maybe the TAD's can be made to sound good with tubes and enough room treatments, but at the end of the day they'll always be just souped up Pioneers.

Conversely I haven’t found that to be the case with the Magico S series, especially the S5 Mk2’s which are just amazing paired with Vitus. I find I can listen for hours without fatigue. Despite bcgator’s histrionics, I did say "every TAD speaker i’ve heard sounds bright and fatiguing". To imply my ears are lying to me, or perhaps that i’m lying to either myself or others is ludicrous. To each their own.

melbguy1: Thanks for the response; I am very glad you are happy with your speakers and gear combination. I know a couple guys here who had the 3s and have upgraded to the S5s in the last few months and they are very happy as well. I hear they are awesome speakers from many fans of that company's speakers.  To each their own,....absolutely agree. I'm sure your ears are not lying to you nor are mine here. Perhaps I just got very luckly with baseline of gear, cables, power, etc....that I have as the foundation of the system as my hearing is still exceptional and I'm also very prone to finding the least bit of ear fatigue in a speaker and given the Legacy's I owned in various models for year, I know what a fatigue-less (not a word but you get the point) is.  I'm very glad that I have a combination of gear/etc...that is showing the R1s at their best and I've not heard, even in the first 190 hours, the aspects that you are pointing out.  Have a great new year and enjoy your setup and those great speakers!

Zephyr,

From what I have seen the S5 appears to have severe compression issues above 2KHz. So I am not surprised that the TAD (a reference speaker design) would make ones ears bleed if one was used to all that compression (congested laid back treble lacking the ability to convey true dynamics and harshness of horn instruments and percussion). In essence, a reference style loudspeaker is always more likely to sound harsh compared to more popular audiophile style speakers that can be kinder to the sound.

Thanks for your response; that is interesting regarding the other speaker. I had not heard that from the guys I know who own them and are liking them very much. Happy New Year!

@Zephyr, i'm glad you've assembled a system which sounds musical to your ears. Tthanks for your good wishes. All the best to you in 2017!

@shadorne, You must be talking about the S5 Mk1, as respected reviewer Martin Colloms had this to say about the S5 Mk2's in his review for Hifi Critic -

"We also found that the S5 MkII could play almost impossibly loud with near perfect clarity and no perceptible hardening, textural crowding or dynamic compression. The most difficult and densely scored material was handled with sweet clarity and with particularly low fatigue, a strong indicator of inherently low distortion together with exceptionally uniform frequency responses".

Melbguy: Happy New Year to you as well!  As far as my system sounding musical to me, you can also add a long list of various audio fans who have had long and multiple listening sessions at the house so it's not simply just my ears thinking the system sounds good.

@melbguy1


I was was referring to these rather embarrassing set of measurements for a SOTA mega-buck speaker. (See horrendous deviation from linearity above 2KHz - this kind of distortion is common in low cost speakers and is usually extremely audible - this example however is the worst I have ever seen. I don’t think this engineering error is acceptable in a speaker of this calibre or claimed repute. Maybe this explains the MkII to correct the errors of the Mk I?)

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1043:nrc-measu...

@shardorne, Firstly the NRC at the time stated the S5 Mk1 speakers had the lowest THD of any speaker they ever tested. Secondly, a max 2bd deviation in linearity above 2kHz is "embarassing", "horrendous" and "extremely audible"? The S5 Mk1's driver pair matching was approx ±0.5dB, so i'm not sure what you're jumping up and down about. Also, I don't think the S7 or S5 Mk2 were designed to correct any "embarassing" test results, but were in fact the result of Magico's relentless R&D efforts which resulted in the M Project, from which the S7 was born. The S5 Mk2 has some technology from the M3, but that's another story.

Great,...now that we have the Magico topic out of our system, can we return to discussion of the TAD R1 MkIIs?

@melbguy1 I see 3db compression from the tweeter in Chart B on the measurements link I provided above. I stated that for a low build cost speaker this is not unusual - so no big deal. I was just explaining what this would sound like versus a high quality reference speaker that would not heavily compress the dynamics of the audio signal at 95 db SPL. The reference speaker would sound harsh and "make ears bleed" at loud levels whereas the heavily compressed sounding speaker will be much more congested and polite.

Shadorne, we can argue about 1db till the cows come home. I suggest you stop looking at graphs and go out and listen to a properly setup pair of S5 Mk1’s. Maybe you’ll be so enamored you’ll snap up a pair? They are relative bargains on the used market now. Enjoy them in good health my friend! Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy my S5 Mk2’s ;).