Because right now, when I digitize my vinyl (for use in the car and my server), I have to live with the ticks and pops, and, since I use a pro-sumer CD recorder, inserting the track divisions on the fly is a real challenge. Not to mention the fact that I often have to edit the metadata because dBPoweramp couldn't find it. |
The Indiegogo Campaign for the SweetVinyl SugarCube is now live!!! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sweetvinyl-sugarcube#/ I already committed to support this amazing device. If you listen to or digitize vinyl, you NEED to look at what the SugarCube can do! I have no financial interest or any other connection to SweetVinyl other than my support of the Indiegogo Campaign. |
The Indiegogo campaign was successful, and my beta SC-2 unit is expected to ship in March. I will report my experience with this unit here. |
Just an update - The SweetVinyl folks have made some hardware revisions (including the ability to adjust recording level and balance via the app - yes!), so the release has been delayed. I would rather they get it right than I get it right now, so patience is the word. Once all hardware is ready they will begin production. Software updates can be done in the field via the web. |
Yes, enginedr1960, as long as you use an Apple computer (I do not). Are the track tagging and click &pop removal automated, or manual? |
Well, there have been some setbacks at Sweetvinyl, so the Sugarcube units are still being built and tested. It looks like my SC-2 will ship without a lot of the functionality that was promised. However, all the functionality promised will be available as downloadable software updates, so I don't see the downside to taking delivery before all the features are ready and tested. I will try to post any further news about this product here. Stay tuned! |
thaluza - Have you ever heard a Sugarcube demo? I have. Extremely impressive. The click & pop removal sounded totally transparent to me. Plus, Sweetvinyl claims they have further improved the process in the last few months. Hopefully, our patience will be well rewarded. |
Sounds like you are all set up for your Sugarcube, thaluza.
One of the cool features on it allows you to listen to the whole, unfiltered signal, the de-clicked signal, or just the clicks being filtered. This is important, because, using the de-clicker adjustment knob, you can easily select a level of click-removal that does not also remove some of the music signal. If you hear any music in the click-only setting, you are overdoing it on the filter. Simply dial it back until the music is gone, and you have the optimal amount of filtering. Brilliant! |
vpi - Nope - all the signal paths you can select are full range. You choose from (1) the unfiltered signal, with all the pops and clicks, (2) the filtered signal, which filters out the pops and clicks - more or less filtering as you adjust the rotary filter knob - or (3) just what the Sugarcube is filtering out. IOW, in this last mode, you can hear only the signal that is being removed by the filter. It is full range, so, if you hear any music while listening to just the signal that is being filtered out, you know that you are actually removing some of the music along with the pops and clicks. The trick is to then reduce the level of filtering, on the fly, until you cannot hear any music when listening to only what the filter is removing. That way, you get the maximum amount of pop & click filtering possible without losing any of the music signal. I hope this explains it. This is one case in which a demo is worth 1000 words. |
lewm - I understand your concern, but as I think I made clear above, my only connection with Sweetvinyl is that I committed to be a beta tester for the SC-2 during Sweetvinyl’s Indiegogo campaign. As a contributor, I receive regular email updates from Sweetvinyl which I have shared here. Also, I saw the product demonstrated and spoke with two of the principles of Sweetvinyl at the November, 2016 Chester Group audio show in NYC. Everything about the product I have posted here is based on what I have learned from my communications with the folks at Sweetvinyl. Other than being a paying customer and beta-tester, I have no financial interest in or control over Sweetvinyl. Just as I appreciate it when users of new products post their impressions here on Audiogon, I am trying to share my experience and excitement about this product with the audio community.
Perhaps what raises suspicion is my extreme enthusiasm for the Sugarcube. You got me there! After 10 years of using a pro-sumer CD recorder to digitize my LPs, I am only about half way done, and the process is difficult. I currently have to insert track divisions on the fly using the recorder’s remote. If I miss, I can either start over again or live with it. Then there is the process of manually typing in much of the metadata after ripping the CD-R onto my server. And, then there are the clicks and pops that still annoy even after a good vacuum cleaning. The Sugarcube promisses to solve all three of these issues with a turnkey dedicated box that does not require the use of a computer and a handful of applications. If it works, it will speed up the process, produce cleaner, higher-res digital files of my LPs, and make organizing them on a server easier. So, am I excited? Heck yes! Sorry if I come across as a shill, but I am really enthusiastic about this product, which, I feel, is a new product category. I have taken a lot of flak from others who are committed to using a bunch of computer programs to accomplish what the Sugarcube will do, but none of these programs do what the Sugarcube can do without a lot of digital editing of the recorded files. The Sugarcube automates the click & pop removable (and it’s adjustable), automatically inserts track divisions, and automatically pulls down meta data from the web.
BTW, most of this info is on the Sweetvinyl.com web site and the Indiegogo.com web site. At Indiegogo, just search for Sugarcube, and read through the page and the updates.
As for me seeming to be alone in posting, that is likely because there are only 100 SC-2 beta units being produced, and perhaps the other 99 beta testers are not active on Audiogon. Who knows? It does seem that some of the Indiegogo campaign purchasers are located outside the U.S., too.
Hey, it’s an Indiegogo thing, so I might end up with nothing, or with a unit that doesn’t deliver as promissed. That’s the risk I took after seeing/hearing the demo. It is already 4 months overdue, but as I said to Dan Eakins of Sweetvinyl, I’d rather have it right, than right now. So, even though I may end up with a paperweight, or a product that does not deliver what was promissed (and with very little recourse, according to Indiegogo policy), I remain fairly optimistic. |
A new update from Sweetvinyl: Some of the SC-1 beta units have shipped. About 60 of the SC-2 units are expected to ship in September. This means I will probably receive mine within the month (I am the 12th contributor for the SC-2 to the Indiegogo campaign). However, the SC-2 will initially ship with SC-1 software. That means it will not have the digitizing functionality or the track division functionality. Bummer. Also, the smart phone control app is not ready yet. So, it will function as a declicker, using the front panel controls, but that’s about it. I will probably insert it in the signal chain prior to my CD recorder, so I can continue to make CD-Rs of my vinyl, but now without the clicks and pops.
All the functionality being left out of the SC-2 can be added via firmware updates over the web, so I am hopeful that these functions will be added soon. |
Thanks, raymonda. So, if I understand it correctly, in order to declick a recording, you have to locate the click on a graphic visual representation of the audio file, and manually remove the click. Is that correct? If so, wouldn't the process be rather time-consuming, depending on how many clicks you want to remove? |
raymonda - Ok, now I see where our applications differ. Most of my LPs are record show and garage sale finds, usually a buck to 3 bucks apiece. So, as you can imagine, they are often in pretty bad shape. With decent new or mint LPs, your method makes a lot of sense (if you don't despise computers like I do). But for me, the amount of work required to clean up a noisy LP would take a really long time.
I know there is no free lunch, but, at least in the demo I heard, the click removal of the Sugarcube seemed completely transparent. This is not a standard filter, but an algorythm-based program. It is also adjustable, on the fly, and you can listen to only the signal being filtered out. If there is no music signal in this disgarded portion of the signal, I think it is safe to say that no music is being lost. We'll see. Of course I will post my impressions of the SC-2 here when (or if) I get mine. |
atmasphere - Very interesting post. I can see how the phono pre circuitry could cause such an issue. I suppose a clear sign that this is happening is if the same passage exhibits clicks and pops at different times when played several times.
I don’t think I have an excessive tick & pop problem, as some LPs are extremely quiet through my McIntosh C220’s MM phono section (a tube/SS hybrid). But, I will try replaying passages with loud ticks to see if they repeat at the same spot or not. It’s just that I buy only used records in a wide range of conditions, so I don’t expect very quiet surfaces on many of my LP purchases.
Honestly, the Sugarcube-2 appeals to me every bit as much for the digitizing, track splitting, and meta-data retrieval features as it does for the click and pop filtering. Sadly, my beta unit will ship without those features. Sweetvinyl promises a firmware upgrade that will add these features eventually. There may even be an optional surface noise filter. We’ll see... |
Long time no post. The SC-2 has actually been discontinued by Sweetvinyl. It will soon be replaced by the SC-2+. The main difference is the inclusion of the surface noise processing, with will reduce surface noise by 8 dB. This is big, since, as I have mentioned, when the pops and clicks are removed, the surface noise is much more noticeable, having been previously masked by the pops and clicks. Fortunately, early beta units like mine will be eligible for a hardware upgrade to + status. I plan on jumping on this as soon as it’s available.
Meanwhile, I continue to make excellent needle drops at 96/24 with my SC-2. There are occasional glitches, usually following a software update, but they either self-resolve after a few reboots or the Sweetvinyl folks fix it in the next software upgrade.
Before the SC-2+ leaves beta, the web-based GUI will be replaced with a downloadable software interface. That will be another improvement.
If you have any questions, post away. |
Ok - Just heard from Sweetvinyl. The SC-2's will start shipping this week, and many of the desireable features, like the Smartphone control app, will be working when the units ship. Since my Indiegogo commitment for an SC-2 beta unit was number 12, I should be among the first to receive it. Very exciting! I will keep everyone interested posted via this thread. |
Update: 15 SC-2s shipped out last week, and I am one of them! I should get it later this week or early next. I will keep you posted. |
@lewm - :-)
I am curious - why are you following this thread? |
No problem, lewm. I have very thick skin (and most everything else, too). I share your mental image - just like when I attend our local audio club meetings, and everybody gets a good ribbing. FedEx says it is out for delivery today!!! Very tight schedule this week, and my amplifier is in need of repair, so my ability to put the SC-2 through its paces will be somewhat limited. I also need no decent wires to hook it up. I was too nervous about ever receiving it to actually buy ICs before I was sure I would actually receive it. |
FIRST IMPRESSIONS - My SC-2 has arrived!
I unpacked my SC-2 and placed it in my rack. It is a nicely made piece of kit of light weight, but compact, and all metal construction except the knobs. It includes the 7" calibration record, the brick power supply and generic ac power cord. Also included is the USB stick for wifi connection. There is no remote control, but there is an app for iPhone and Android.
While I do occassionally spin vinyl, my main interest is digitizing my vinyl for my server and portable use. I first connected the input of the SC-2 from the output of my Kenwood Graphic/Parametric EQ (let the flames begin!), with the SC-2's output split via Y cables between my McIntosh C220 preamp (tape loop input) and my Marantz CDR-632 CD recorder. For the time being, the SC-2's track-splitting function is not available, so I will continue to use the Marantz to digitize my LPs, but now without the clicks and pops.
I fired it up with a particularly noisy 45 rpm single on my modded Thorens TD-166 MkII using an Ortofon OM-30 Super MM cartridge. The thing works! With the click filtering set to medium (5 out of 10), the clicks were simply not noticeable. I checked this by selecting the front panel's Click Monitor button, which allows you to hear only what is being filtered out, and heard all the clicks, but, importantly, no music.
With my amplifier out for repairs, the SC-2's headphone output was my main choice for listening. I switched between my Grado SR-60s and Audio Technica ATH-M40x cans. The SC-2 highlighted the significant differences between these two headphones, with the Grados sounding pleasantly euphonic next to the brutally honest Audio Technicas. The headphone stage was clean, detailed and smooth, with an upper-mid and treble range that was delicious sounding and very inviting.
Next up was "Don't Give Up" from Peter Grabriel's LP "So". This is a pretty clean copy, so the click filtering didn't have to work so hard. But the sound was excellent, well extended on top and bottom, with a nice soundstage (for cheap headphones), and a very clean sound. I do think that surface noise becomes a bit more obvious with the clicks and pops being suppressed. Sweetvinyl has suggested that a surface noise filter may be offered as a paid software upgrade in the future.
Next up will be installing the Android app on my phone, connecting to my home wifi network, calibration using the test record, and experimenting with the digitization function using a USB stick.
So far, I am quite pleased, although I really hope the track-splitting function gets rolled out soon.
I will happily answer any questions.
|
lewm - Pretty much you have it correct. The Sugarcube only accepts analog inputs, so I use the tape loop output on the C220 to feed the equalizer. I have a choice of three headphone jacks - the C220, the Sugarcube, and the Marantz CD recorder. So far, I prefer the sound of the Sugarcube’s headphone stage over the other two.
When my amplifier is back, I will feed the tape loop input on the C220 from the Sugarcube, so listening to vinyl will be done through the C220’s tape loop.
Once the Sugarcube is fully functional for recording, including the track-splitting and meta-data functions, I will rearrange the outputs of the equalizer, via Y cables, to feed both the Marantz CD recorder and the Sugarcube, so that the Marantz will not be in the signal path of the Sugarcube inputs.
Separately, I successfully downloaded the Android app for the Sugarcube last night, connected the Sugarcube to my home wifi network, and calibrated the Sugarcube using the test record. It seems that the only function of the calibration is to set the input level on the Sugarcube for optimal recording levels. I also noticed that the Sugarcube received a software update, all on its own. I have not yet determine what was updated. |
thaluza - from an email I received from Dan Eakins at Sweetvinyl: In the app:
. In the
Advanced section on the SC-2 you can also: (top right of app - pull down menu)
a. Change your
display – show artist and song info
b. View Album
recognition
c. Record
So, pretty much everything except track splitting, recording level control (promised) and record L-R balance adjustment (also promised).
|
thaluza - That could be the case. The update took place last night, but I did not get a chance to see what it was updating. I will keep you posted. I opted to receive my SC-2 early (first shipment), since the hardware is finalized, and all the other stuff is dowloadable software updates. lewm: If I were evaluating the the digitizing quality of the SC-2 as compared to the Marantz CD recorder, you'd be correct. But I think it's a safe bet that SC-2, which has been designed as a high-end audio component, will be an improvement over the Marantz, which is a pro-sumer CD recorder that is over 10 years old. Also, the SC-2 digitizes up to 24/192, whereas the Marantz is Red Book only. I also can easily digitize something on the SC-2 that I previously digitized on the Marantz, load them onto my server, and compare the results. I may try that at some point, but I am racing against death to complete the digitization of my LPs (in the 12th year of this process, currently), so I mainly want to continnue moving forward with my as-yet undigitized LPs. |
lewm - Oh, sorry. I misunderstood your question. I don't expect to record on both devices simultaneously, but I want to keep the option in case I decide I need a CD-R of whatever I am recording. Also, I do not yet know how the recording function on the Sugarcube will work when recording sources other than LPs. For example, I have numerous singles to digitize, as well as material on DVD, BD, and some soundtrack music I have on my DVR.
Good point about the impedance issues. I could use the Y cables instead to split the output of the SC-2 in order to feed the Marantz and my preamp's tape loop input. Perhaps that would prevent that potential impedance mismatch, and still offer the ability to record a CD-R. Although, would that have the potential to mess up the signal being fed to the Marantz and the preamp? Ugh. |
Okay, so I have not had much time to actually use my SC-2. As a beta tester, I expected a few glitches, and there are some. So far, the SC-2 has gotten stuck during updates and required a restart two times. Sweetvinyl says this typically happens around 5% of the time. The pairing of the SC-2 with my Android phone is a little tricky. I thought I had it done, but the app is telling me to re-pair the phone with the SC-2. Sweetvinyl says I should go through the pairing process whenever prompted by the app. Because of this, I have not yet explored the advanced menu, but hope to do so soon. The unit is designed to stay powered on (power switch on the rear). So far, it has never gotten more than slightly warmer than room temperature to the touch, and that is with a plastic sheet covering my equipment rack. Sweetvinyl can actually monitor the internal operating temperature of any SC-2 connected to the web. That's cool, so to speak. |
Mapman - Sorry for my ignorance, but is "delimiting" computer-speak for track splitting? If so, the Sugarcube cannot do this yet. I did see it demonstrated on a prototype, and it is promised, but so far, it's not available. When it is ready, it will be a software upgrade. It will not split tracks after the digitizing, but on the fly, once the LP is recognized. Sweetvinyl has been building its own LP metadata base, and claims to have over 1 million LPs in it so far. |
Sweetvinyl intends to use its own metadata base to derive track divisions. Once the LP is recognized, the tracks are split based on the metadata. |
malosuerte: My time with the SC-2 has been hampered by an amplifier failure. Whiile my amp is in the shop, I have been doing little critical listening, instead using the time to digitize more LPs, during which I monitor the process usinfg headphones (Audio Technica ATH-40X).
But here are some early impressions: Fit & finish is excellent. The unit runs cool, and setup (connection to wifi) is pretty easy and simple. Sound from the headphone section of the SC-2 sounds good over my liesure cans, Grado SR-60.
Much of the functionality of the SC-2 has yet to be switched on. I am using the Android app, and it seems to work pretty well. But the track-splitting is not yet available. Neither is the ability to send a digitized file to a server on the network. For now, the only recording that can be done is to an attached USB stick. I tried one recording, and it seems to work fine. I used 24/192 FLAC encoding, but I am waiting for 24/96 FLAC encoding (which is promised) because of limitations elsewhere in my system. Also, the SC-2 cannot yet play back from the attached USB stick, so playback was through a laptop using Foobar2000 and the Grados. Without the track splitting or ability to send files to my server, I am still using my CD recorder to create CD-Rs from my vinyl. I am routing the signal through the SC-2, so I get a nice clean needle-drop. I hope to be able to avoid using the CD recorder once the SC-2 is fully functional. The album recognition feature is spotty. It has successfully identified a few pretty obscure LPs , but does not succeed often with classical LPs. Sweetvinyl says they are aware of these issues and are working on software fixes.
Other things still being worked on are a way to manually add/edit metadata, and to submit missing metadata to Sweetvinyl's database. More recording resolutions are planned, as are a L-R balance control for recording, and a calibration memory for multiple 'arms/cartridges. A screen dim/off function will also be added.
All that said, the click processing works extremely well, although changing the level of processing seems to have little effect. To my ears, there is little to no difference in the sound whether in bypass, A-D-A but no click removal, or click removal modes. Even on the worst LPs I threw at it, about 95% of the clicks and pops were inaudible. The downside of this is that surface noise is alot easier to hear. Sweetvinyl says they may eventually release a surface noise processing feature, but this might not be a free upgrade because of the complexity and effort required to develope it.
I took the SC-2 to my local audio club meeting yesterday. Only one or two of the those listening claimed to be able to hear a difference in the sound depending on the mode of the SC-2. They felt that the sound was a bit less forward with the processing engaged, and that the highs were just slightly shelved down. But except for them, the rest of those in attendance could not tell a difference between the processed, the A-D-A without processing, and the bypass modes.
I am holding off on a more thorough review pending the SC-2 being fully function. But if you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them here. |
I continue to be highly impressed by the dedication of the folks at Sweetvinyl to getting as close to perfection as possible with their products. I reported what a few of the golden ears heard as differences in the processed vs. non-processed sound of the SC-2. I got a reply the same day that one of the developers of the Sugarcube is working on changes to the D-A coding that might remedy what these few people are hearing. They can't hear it, I can't hear it, but knowing some people are hearing it was enough for them to put some serious effort into fixing it. |
coryl - Welcome to the club! I am not much of a techie, but if you have the Play Store app on your Android, you used a gmail address to set it up. That's the email address you should use. I hope this helps. |
mallen123: According to the guys who are in charge at Sweetvinyl, the next suite of features for the SC-2 will be out in late January or February. These should include track splitting and the ability to send the digitized files over your home network to a server or NAS. The hardware will not change. These are all downloadable software updates. So, if you trust them, you can buy the SC-2 now and wait for the updates. I had mine delivered without these features, since I run the SC-2 outputs to my CD recorder. So at least I benefit from the click processing. But I agree with you on the key importance of the track splitting feature. And I have said so to the folks at Sweetvinyl. Frankly, if the SC-2 did everything planned for it, but not the click filtering, I still would have wanted one!
I have digitized a few tracks with the SC-2 onto a thumb drive at 192/24 FLAC. As far as I can tell, they came out well, but my system only can handle 96/24 right now, and the ability to digitize at intermediate resolutions between Red Book and 192/24 is also a future upgrade at this time. So I listen through my laptop and entry-level Grado cans.
The album recognition feature works fairly well, but it is not perfect. There are planned upgrades that will allow editing of meta data, and submission of corrections to Sweetvinyl in the future.
I will post here if there any firmware or software updates to my SC-2. |
tablejockey - I would not be so sure about a MkII version. Sweetvinyl did a lot of work to ensure that the hardware would not need any revision in the Sugarcube, only downloadable software updates. And the SC-1 you're referring to is pretty complete, since all it does is process the clicks and pops, which is, I think, in it's final version. But buying one used, or a demo, is always possible. |
@kalali - I enjoy spinning vinyl, and if I could, I would play the LP rather than the digitized version. But that's not always easy to do. I have to find the LP (harder than it sounds in my house), clean it, and flip it over in the middle. Sometimes, I just want to play my music with the press of a button or two, or in a room other than where the big rig is. Since I started digitizing my vinyl and cassettes (insert laughter here), I have spent much more time listening to my collection of music than pondering what I want or do not want to hear. I started ripping my collection to a server in 2011 (finished all the CDs, now working on the vinyl). The convenience of a music server is so conducive to focused music listening that I usually end up doing that. My rips are not perfect, or even as good as the vinyl, but they are not too bad, either.
As for the "shelf version" of the LP on CD, I have two issues. One is that I swore back in 1984 that I would never give the record companies the satisfaction of selling me my entire record collection a second time. I am that cheap. So I went and bought a Thorens TD-166MkII in 1984, a big ticket item for me in those days, which I still have and use today (slightly modded). I figured this West German-built 'table would last, and I was right. The second reason is, yes, indeed, I have yet to hear a regular CD of an LP that I own sound better than the CD-R I created from the LP, even on my very modest system, and that was prior to getting the SC-2. I find I get better dynamics, detail, warmth, soundstage and an absence of digital harshness from my digitized vinyl than almost every CD I own of the same recording (I have a few). My DAC is pretty good, but hardly SOTA. It is comparable in quality to my vinyl source, I think. So, that's my attraction to digitizing vinyl.
Then there is my 45 minute to one hour commute in the car, each way. Having music in the car keeps me sane as I fly down the Garden State Parkway at 10 to 15 miles per hour each day. Previously, I had a 6-disc in-dash CD changer, but now use a cheap and cheerfull FiiO file player. It takes me about 2 years to work through my entire music collection during the commute (and that doesn't count the yet-to-be digitized vinyl, of which there is a lot). When you have a lot of music, it's good to cycle through the whole collection this way, because you rediscover stuff you've owned for a long time but haven't listened to in a while. Plus, I hate repeating the same music too often.
The SC-2 makes digitizing vinyl easier, faster, cleaner and more accurate. Or, at least it will once it is fully functional.
So, I hope this answers your questions. |
@sbrownnw - No question the entry fee is on the high side. In Sweetvinyl's defense, I will say they have pretty much built a new product category from the ground up. Yes, I know there are competing de-clickifier programs, but, AFAIK, none of them are as automated as the Sugarcube, in stand-alone boxes that do not require a computer, and the algorythms Sweetvinyl developed took a long time to get right. I would suggest that for the extra $1000, the SC-2 is a better deal for those digitizing their vinyl, at least it will be once all the functionality is complete.
I got a break on the price via the Indiegogo campaign, but even so, it is still a big ticket item in the context of my modest system. I would say it is worth it, although without a lot of the promised functionality that has yet to be implemented, it is borderline. But once these functions are installed (firmware updates via the web), it will be an indespensible part of my rig.
I don't know what their plans are for the future, although I believe a pro version, which might be more along the lines of your SC-.5, is planned eventually.
According to one of the main guys at Sweetvinyl, sales are good. I think once the SC-2 is fully functional, which at the pace they are going could take another year, it will be a very hot seller. I would also anticipate some audio reviewers to write about it once the software is fully implemented.
I continue to make excellent digitized recordings via my SC-2 into a pro-sumer CD recorder. It's a lot of fun to take an old, beat-up, garage-sale LP, clean it, and then get a pristine rip using the SC-2. There are some bugs in the control app for Android, and as a beta tester, I am working with Sweetvinyl to report these issues. They have been hard at work ironing out the kinks. Once they finish that, they will focus on the SC-2's automated track-splitting, better metadata retrieval, the ability to send digitized files to a networked server, and more control over the recording options (level, balance, resolution, etc.). |
@miner42 - I hear you. I told one of the principles of Sweetvinyl that had the SC-2 only digitized, track-split, added metadata and sent the files to my networked server, I would have gladly bought it without the de-clickifier processing.
At retail, I don't blame you for waiting. At the Indiegogo price, it was too tempting to me to pass up. I am fairly confident that Sweetvinyl will see this through and succeed, though. |
@kalali - There is never any "rush" on the Garden State! :-) More like the morning "mosey".
Being extremely cheap, and a bit of a ludite, I have yet to commit to monthly streaming fees, and my cheap cell phone has limited data, so I am still all about owning the media I listen to. And the other problem is, how do you pick a place to start streaming when there are millions of choices? I prefer my cycle-through-the- collection method.
BTW, if you're interested, we have a great audio society hear in Joisey:
www.njaudiosociety.com
I encourage you to check it out.
Cheers. |
Update - After some time away, I returned home, fired up my SC-2, and was pleased to see I got an update. Both the SC-2 and the Sugarcube Android app were updated. The biggest difference I noticed was that you can now customize the resolution for recording, both the bit rate and the sampling frequency. This is very welcome, as for the time being, my streamer (SBT) cannot handle anything over 96/24.
It could be my imagination, but the sound on an unfamiliar LP I digitized last night seemed even smoother and more detailed than I remember the SC-2 sounding.
On the downside, the "light show" issue was not fixed. If anything, it’s worse. But there does not seem to be any impact on the sound or functionality of the SC-2 as a result.
Also, although I haven’t read it yet, Fremer posted a review on his Analog Planet site of one of the Sugarcubes. |
I sent my comments to Sweetvinyl, and got a fast reply. It seems I have the software version prior to the current release. I set my SC-2 to Bypass and left it powered on, which should enable the firmware download. I will reboot tonight or tomorrow night and see which version I have. Apparently, the "light show" on the front panel was the tip-off that I had not yet received the latest software update, which fixes this issue. Also, I neglected to mention that the Android app now "finds" my SC-2 on my home network very quickly and consistently, something that was not case before. Also, not only the bit rate and sampling frequency are selectable, but also the digital format. I use FLAC exclusively, but WAV and ALAC are also available.
@thaluza - Yes, I too hope we get track-splitting soon. That, and the ability to send a digitized file over the home network to my server are key capabilities for me. However, based on some things I have read, it seems that track-splitting is proving more of a bear to get right than had been anticipated. I know that Sweetvinyl is determined to get it done, but I am afraid patience will be required. Meanwhile, I continue to get great, clean digitized versions of my LPs using the SC-2 and my Marantz CD-R. But I look forward to skipping this step and moving to higher-resolution digitization. |
Update: So I finally got the newest software download, and the blinking LED issue is gone. The USB & Record indicator light does cycle slowly on and off. The Sweetvinyl team is checking to see if that is normal.
Now for some good news: Track splitting is at the top of the development priority list for updating the software. It won’t be overnight, but it is the focus currently at Sweetvinyl. Also, level normalization is planned - this is like ReplyGain. If you ever listen to random tracks or albums on your server, you know that not all recordings are made at the same peak or average level. This can be annoying when listening, especially in the car or for background music. Encoding the digitized files with normalization data can enable the playback device (a streamer, player or computer music software) that is equipped to do so to normalize the volume from album to album or song to song, without changing the level balance within an album (so relative levels from track-to-track within an LP remain at the relative levels they were mastered with).
Additionally, I was told that a left-right balance adjustment via the app would be added for the recording process on the SC-2. This is huge, IMHO, as the channel balance from LP to LP and even within an LP is anything but centered or consistent. And there are also left-right imbalances on lots of phono cartridges out there, too. Being able to correct this in the digitization/recording process is a key feature for me, one which I currently accomplish using the ganged left & right record volume pots on my CD recorder. Without this feature in the Sweetvinyl app, I would still have to keep the recorder in the signal chain, just to adjust the balance. It would be great if I can mothball the CD recorder altogether. This possibility is getting closer.
I did learn that one of the processors, the one that controls the front panel indicators and displays, does need an embedded firmware upgrade, which cannot be accomplished via internet download. But Leo from Sweetvinyl will be in my area soon, and I plan to meet up with him, SC-2 in tow, so he can take care of this, as he has so kindly offered to do. No shipping, and no time without my favorite new toy!
As I told Leo, I am really enjoying the beta experience. Patience is important (helped along by the knowledge that I paid half of list for my SC-2 via the Indiegogo campaign), as well as is providing as much feedback as possible to the Sweetvinyl team. The responsiveness of the folks at Sweetvinyl to my questions and feedback make me feel like a part of the collaborative process of fully realizing all of the amazing capabilities of this one-box wonder. |
A long overdue update:
First, having been unable to coordinate a meeting with Leo of SweetVinyl for the firmware update, SweetVinyl graciously offered to have my SC-2 shipped out to them and returned it with the update. Light-show issues solved.
And, drum-roll, please, the beta of version 2.0 came out in January '19. This beta software includes track editing, track splitting/joining, metadata editing and more.
As a beta tester, I got the new software and have tried it out. It works more or less as promised. The app is pretty much useless for the new features, at least in this beta version. They recommend using a chrome browser to connect to your SC-2 over your LAN. Easy enough. What works well is the track editing and metadata editing. In this regard, it's not all that different than some of the software programs you can buy. But, what is neat is that when you are finished editing, you save your work, and then you can select the format, resolution and even declicking level, and the program updates your thumb or USB drive that is connected to the SC-2. You can even get the raw file, clicks and all, in full-res WAV, for use in editing with 3rd party software. You can also save multiple versions, e.g., a 24/192 FLAC file and lo-res MP3 file of the same recording.
What needs work: I have alerted the Sweetvinyl team to a loud click that is heard between each track after editing. Also, the metadata is often wrong, or completely absent, and, so far, none of the track divisions inserted by the software were even close to where they ought to be. All of this is fixable via editing, but it is time consuming. Artwork, which has yet to come up correctly by itself, must be sourced from the web, saved on your computer, and then copied into the metadata on the SC-2 files. The metadata saves recordings by LP side. Good for purists, but I would rather have tracks 1 through 10, for example, than tracks 1 through 5 on side one, and tracks 1 through 5 on side 2.
What doesn't work at all yet: For now, file playback through the SC-2 is not available. Also not yet available is the ability to render the edited files directly to a NAS. But these things are coming. I was able to mount the thumb drive on my laptop, and copy the edited files to my server. However, the track labeling had to be fixed (as noted above) manually. Also, none of the artwork on the thumb drive made it to the server, for some reason, so I have to insert that manually onto my server as well.
Remember, this is still a beta version, so some hiccups are to be expected. But, I am finally digitizing in FLAC at 96/24, and getting great results (except for the clicks between tracks). And, it looks like I can finally mothball my CD recorder.
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Ok, I just had to post this... I am finally able to digitize vinyl at
96/24 using my Sweetvinyl SugarCube SC-2 and play it back from my
server. I am listening to Sting's LP "Nothing Like the Sun" that I
digitized from a pretty clean double LP, and I am having a
"Holy-Mother-of-Crap" moment, where everything is just about perfect.
Clean, effortless, extended, all the buzz-words. Wow! The highs,
especially, are so much cleaner and smoother than with my Red Book
digitized files using my Marantz CD recorder. Considering my system
costs a fraction of what many people here have spent on their rigs, it
is really something! I love music, and I love this hobby! There are some issues in the new beta software I am testing, but the quality of the files I created with this wonder-box is really amazing.
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Just a quick update: The beta software for the SC-2 has gone through several revisions. Metadata searching has improved greatly. Also, I can now enter catalog numbers of LPs and the SC-2 will use that data to populate the metadata fields and add album art. Track begin/end identification still needs work, but is getting better. I still have to manually adjust each start and end point. Transient noise in between tracks remains an issue which Sweetvinyl says is being worked on. |
Oh, and as for too much gadget involvement, remember, my goal is to get all my vinyl on to my server. That makes listening more convenient than ever, IMHO. |
@tablejockey @noromance ... Of course, no piece of kit is for everyone. Otherwise, we would all own that piece of kit. I started this thread by remarking that if the SC-2 only digitized LPs, split tracks, added metadata, and dumped them on my server, I could live without the click processing. That remains the case. To me, the click processing is the icing on the cake. Since almost all of my records are purchased used, the processing has been helpful. Also, when you read this thread, remember, you are being shown the sausage-making process of a new product, even a new product category. If and when all the bugs are fixed, this will be a very simple turn-key product.
All that said, I am having a blast using my Sugarcube, and I am enjoying the collaborative process of being a beta tester, my first such experience.
When the bugs are fixed, I will be inviting members of my local audio club to stop by with an LP they would like to digitize. If you are local (central NJ) and would like to try it, let me know, and when it's ready, I will contact you.
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@mjb87062017 - Sorry, I have been travelling for a few weeks. Also, as usual, after a few plane flights, I can't hear a blessed thing. When I finish unpacking and my hearing returns, I will check this out and report back. |
OK - latest software update for the SC-2 was installed last night. Mostly cosmetic differences, but, the transient clicks between tracks, a persistent bug, has been resolved! This is pretty big. The only other major hurdle remaining in the SC-2 software is the ability to record directly to a networked server. I work around this by dragging and dropping from the thumb drive to the network drive of my server. A little clunky, but not terrible. I am making some excellent needle-drop recordings now at 96/24 FLAC.
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