2. speakers
  3. 156104-122106

Swarming!

Hi folks!

Hope everyone is doing well.

I just got my Swarm Distributed Subwoofer Array from AudioKinesis hooked up.

Wow!

Pre Swarm setup:

Office (10 x 14 minus closets):

Amp: Hegel H190 integrated, Bryston P26 preamp, Ampzilla 2000 Second Edition monoblock amps
Speakers: KEF LS 50 non wireless, Ologe 5, Magnepan LRS


So two subs arrived yesterday (Saturday).

With two subs and the Dayton amp, I first hooked up one sub in various positions on the floor.

Listened to a variety of music.
Played around with the gain.
After four crawls and two more "just to confirm" crawls, I located and left Sub 1.

I’m still a newbie here so apologies in advance if the proper terminology escapes me when I try to describe all the ways everything (not just the bass) just sounds a lot better.

While it sounded better than three other subs I tried, the bass got less clear soon after the gain was up enough to hear the sub and especially when I moved around the room.

Now, with Sub 1 optimally (for now) placed, Sub 2 took the rest of the evening.

Sub 2 is ceiling facing (3" clearance from the ceiling) on a long shelf behind the listening position.
Spent a few hours sliding it left and right, flipping it over to fire the port in the opposite direction, etc.

Flipped it three times.
My back was starting to complain when I first got it up on the shelf. These things are heavy and awkward to remove from a high shelf when flipping over, not to mention the heart stopping, lose balance or grip on the sub, close call moments!

Decided to leave it in the corner where the shelf meets the right wall with the port facing the corner and wait for the other subs.

The improvement, though not significant, was more than noticeable at my listening position.
The improvement started to get significant when I rolled my chair around the room or got up and walked around.

Things sounded pretty good in more areas of the room.
I heard more quality out of the newly added quantity of bass.

The other two subs arrived today.

Duke at AudioKinesis suggested varying the heights of the ceiling facing sub(s) if possible as this will affect the vertical plane.

So,...

Subs 3 and 4 are also ceiling facing with a 6" clearance located in the left and right front corners of the room.
They are perched on steel wire shelving units allowing for one inch height increments. The added storage space with the shelves is a huge bonus!

Turned the music back on a little while ago.

What a mind blowing experience!
While the LRS made the room seem bigger, with all four subs firing, the Swarm seemed to add body, intensity and dynamics to the "bigger room".  Just about anywhere in the room.

I can raise the gain much higher and actually enjoy the clarity and evenness in the added bass.
Bass is not lost at low volumes. I can actually hear more details in the bass without needing to raise the volume.

Absolutely love the LRS! Thought the bass was pretty good. Didn’t hit like the LS 50s but seemed more than adequate.
But after a satisfactory gain setting and listening with the Swarm added, I got up and turned the gain all the way down and listened to just the LRS.
The Swarm added such a high quality and intense "kick" to the low end that just went away.

This got me out of my chair again to bring the gain back up.
A remote for the Dayton sure would be great!

I just can’t imagine listening to my system without this really cool subwoofer solution!

Limited to a small room?

Yes, there are four sizeable subs and an additional amp to place.
I thought there was no way that would work in such a small 10’ x 14’room.

Why four subs?
For anyone not familiar with the Distributed Bass Array concept, search through these threads.
There are numerous postings on this by some really knowledgeable people. (millercarbon and noble100, especially)

With three of the subs up high, the fourth sub is the only additional piece taking up floor space.

It’s been only about 2 hours listening with the Swarm in place.
With just the first sub placed via crawling and the other three just put in place, everything sounds like my system had a major upgrade!

It’s actually quite shocking! Seriously.

Excited to experiment with the subwoofer heights, different amps and also with the LS 50s and Ologe 5s.

Kodus to Duke at AudioKinesis for building such an effective, simple and flexible subwoofer solution!

These things actually look pretty cool too! Zero WAF issues!


Stay safe and healthy everyone!

hleeid

Showing 14 responses by hleeid

hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@b_limo Thanks! I haven't gotten to staggering the shelf mounted sub heights. But the shelf units I got are the really heavy duty industrial ones. I have them each bolted to a side wall. Never heard of the  aurelex subdude. Just looked it up.  Appreciate the tip!

Initial overall impressions are that the bass can be augmented to levels that would otherwise muddy everything using just one or two subs.

I can raise the gain higher than normal to bring out certain cello passages without adversely affecting the mids and highs.

  Having just conducted listening tests with one, two and finally four subs, I can truly attest to the audible differences.

Even a newbie like me can hear the incredible improvements.

Interesting point: 

My fiance asked: Why not just raise the bass on an equalizer?".
I told her to have a seat and listen as I first raised the gain on the Dayton amp (Swarm).
I then lowered the gain all the way and turned up the bass on the equalizer.

Less than 30 seconds go by and I didn't have to say a word. I heard her loudly say: "Switch it back please!  That was hurting my ears!"

The LRS sound really awesome now with the Swarm.
I just switched out the LRS and hooked up my Ologe 5s.  
Excited to see how they sound with the Swarm.

hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@lancelock - Good question! Was curious about that too. I have bass traps but haven't installed them yet (still testing sub placement with new Swarm and will try with the traps after)

Also, has anyone else experimented with/without diffusers?
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
Thanks Tim! 
Good to hear your positive experience with room treatments. I have some "starter" bass traps from Arrowzoom and some acoustical insulation, DIY frame pieces etc. in the garage.  Was so impressed with the Swarm that I didn't feel the urgency in deploying any of those.  
Guess I'll get around to completing my room treatment project a little sooner. 




hleeid OP
219 posts
 
Swarm tuning update:
I switched my main speakers from the LRS to the Ologe 5 this morning.

Sensitivity and frequency response ratings are close (Ologe 5: 89db LRS: 86db), and both reach down to about 50Hz.

However, at similar volume levels, the LRS required noticeably less gain than the Ologe 5 but a bit higher frequency cutoff.

The LRS also required more frequent gain adjustments depending on volume and the type of music playing.

Couldn’t stop wearing out the gain knob a/b testing again with the Ologe 5!

Same incredible improvement as with the LRS!

Room "sounded" bigger with more body, energy and dynamics. And not just in terms of bass.
The 3 tweeter array on the Ologe 5 probably helped widen the on axis area more than the LRS.

As with the LRS, the Swarm made the room a bit bigger but fuller and more dynamic.

Two very positive and significant results with two very different speakers!




hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@noble100  - Hey Tim!  I just reviewed the Swarm experiments you shared with me.
I faced the 3 ceiling facing subs towards their respective walls in accordance with Experiment #2. I also slid the sub on the shelf away from the corner and faced it against the wall.

Can't put my finger on it but can definitively hear increased clarity (probably from pulling one sub from the corner and facing it and the other two towards the walls) on some bass heavy tracks.

Also, I have experimented staggering the vertical heights of the ceiling facing subs.  

FWIW - in my 10' x 14' minus closets space, lowering the front left and right ceiling facing subs to about 6' and 4'  respectively yields greater ambiance, balance and coherence in a larger soundstage.

What a remarkably simple, straightforward solution to achieving SOTA bass augmentation!

I have had nothing but excellent results Swarming with 3 significantly different main speakers (Magnepan LRS, Ologe 5 and KEF LS 50s).

Detractors - detract all you want. But I will bet just about anything that all it takes is an honest listening session to convert you or any detractor to hear and appreciate the logic of a properly set up DBA. 

Stay safe and healthy everyone!
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@noble100  +1
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
I got a Dayton SA 1000 amp refurbished from Parts Express for $250. Duke at AudioKinesis suggested I go for it as it would save me cash.

The amp started making a mechanical hum and caused the subs to occasionally make a popping sound.

I called Duke who said he would ship me a replacement amp ASAP so I wouldn’t be Swarmless for a while.

I really can’t say enough about Duke’s unwavering commitment to quality customer service and of course SOTA products.
Simply outstanding!

Parts Express was very professional and polite. They decided to refund me and let me keep the amp as they can't do anything with RMA returns on refurbished items.

I plan on using two Daytons with my Swarm for a while.
But with 2 Daytons, I may eventually call Duke for 4 (or quite possibly more) subs and using the other Dayton to set up a second Swarm in my living room to go with a pair of B&W Matrix 801 S2s.

Safe and happy listening everyone!


hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@jtcf Thanks! Please post your findings with the new panels.
After hearing how noble100 noticed improvement in the midbass and up, I am now revisiting room treatments.  As such, I would be interested to know your results as well since your listening room is closer in size to mine (10x14).
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@audiokinesis - Duke, you mentioned: 
For unusually demanding applications like yours, there is a custom high-output version of the Swarm which is not up on my website. The footprint is 14" square, the height depends on how low you want to go.  

Does this use the same Dayton amp?
What are the differing heights for subwoofers?
Would the individual heights be varied within a given high-output Swarm?

I know I PMed you these questions but thought to post here so others may benefit from your response.

And thanks again for going out of your way to resolve my refurbished amp issue so quickly!
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@mizmike I use a 6' RCA cable in my Swarm.  Duke at Audio Kinesis suggested not going any longer than that unless running balanced.
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@tomic601 +1 -  Duke provides great products and help grounded in science and listening- a refreshing behavior
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@dnicolCongrats on the Swarm!
Yes, the DBA does integrate very smoothly.  By far the best subwoofer solution I have experienced.
I will try my best at this using quotes from Duke LeJeune (Swarm DBA inventor):
1) Sealed mode is generally better for smaller rooms, and ported mode is generally better for large and/or open-floorplan rooms. I use one sub ported (the one that's in a front corner) and the other three are sealed, and the sealed sub in the very back of the room is in reverse polarity – just to give an example.
My room is 14 x 17 and this is what I do.

2) As a general ballpark starting point, I suggest the parametric EQ controls be set for minimum effect: Frequency at 18, Bandwidth at .1, and Level at 0, or about 2:00 on the dial. On the low-pass filter controls, set the Phase at 0, and again as a ballpark starting point, you might try Frequency between 8:00 and 9:00, and Gain at perhaps 10:00. On the back of the amp, turn the Subsonic Filter ON for now (and consider keeping it on if you listen to vinyl), and turn the Bass Boost OFF if you plan to use the subs mostly or all ported, and ON if you plan to use them mostly or all sealed. These are ballpark suggestions just to get you started. You will have a lot of power and output capability on tap, and there is no combination of settings that will overdrive the woofers unless you hit them with very high power signals below 18 Hz in vented mode with the subsonic filter disengaged.

I also follow this but have left phase at 0.
I also found the need to alter the gain depending on the mains I run (higher with efficient speakers).
3) - See response to 1)

4) I have 2 subs elevated, each one an inch from the wall and facing the ceiling. The floor subs are an inch from the walls but only because I face them parallel to the walls.  Otherwise at least 3 inches clearance is advised.
5) I had 2 Daytons thump on shutdown. One was a refurbished unit. The other was brand new.  Still working with Parts Express on this.Will let you know what happens.
Do you hear a mechanical buzz from your Dayton?
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
Well it certainly improved my sub million dollar LRS, LS50s, Ologe5s, B&W Matrix 801S2s and now my new Harbeth SHL5+40ths.
A Harbeth 40.2 review in The Absolute Sound pointed out that while this speaker does not need subwoofers, it will greatly benefit using them because of it’s really good bass response.
I am still just wrapping my head around how the DBA does what it does.
But it makes sense that the quality of bass response in a speaker will only be augmented by a DBA (or any subwoofer configuration).
Trash in trash out?
@noble100 - Nice to hear from you!  Thought you went elsewhere.
hleeid OP
219 posts
 
Congrats on your Swarm setup benzman!
Glad to hear your listening room is done after all those delays!
More to discover