Dunno, but I'll tell ya that I own the S8 v2 which has Be tweeters. The Paradigm Be tweeter is one of the best on the market today. Other high end brands that use Be tweeters include Magico and Usher.
Btw, just read somewhere that the cost of neodynium super magnets has sky-rocketed. Guess what Paradigm uses in its mid-range and tweeter driver motor assemblies??
Bottom line: call Paradigm and see if there is a Be tweeter that you can "drop" into your speakers. Main issue is whether the Be tweeter is a simple drop in. There may be other compatibility issues, e.g., cross-over, driver matching, time and phase coherence, etc.
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I'm guessing that the beryllium tweets are expensive. I'm interested in what you find out as I just got some studio 20's two days ago after owning studio 10's for three months. On a side note, how long did you play your speaker at moderate levels before really cranking them? I think I played my 10's too loud too soon. About day number 2, I turned them up, too loud obviously, and heard a slight pop from one speaker. After that, my mid and tweeter, from that one speaker, made a popping / distorted noise whenever I played them loud. By contrast, the speaker that didn't pop, could be played three, four, even five db's loder. What do you think? |
Hi there,
Thank you for your responses.
Further search of prior swaps retrieved few actual tweeter swapping.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/559431/paradigm-owners-thread/20070
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1223579018
Paradigm technical support feedback is that the current (v3) Signature tweeter is different from the v2 due to different voice coil, and crossover. He also added that the v2 and v3 signature tweeters aren't swappable, and that both do not match the Studio 100.
Nevertheless, I would like to receive actual feedback from this forum members, due to past positive feedback. |
My understanding is that the tweeter did NOT change in the S8 v3 model. Instead, the v3 modified the midrange and bass drivers to make the overall speakers 3db more efficient. Paradigm says that the changes result in the v3 being more "dynamic" than the v2, whatever that means. |
It seems that my local authorized distributor is already aware of the option to swap studio tweeters to Beryllium.
My request to buy locally signature tweeters was replied that Paradigm tweeters are sold to end customers, only when the customer has Signature speaker, which I clearly don't.
Any feedback? |
I wonder why they would only sell them to you if you already have sig's. Could it be that they do just drop in, and then you have something very close to sig's for half the money? I'm calling paradigm tomorrow to see what's up! |
Good news!
Tomorrow I'm supposed to receive two Sig Beryllium tweeters from the store I bought the speakers from, to demonstrate the change, for the rest of the weekend!
In case the swap will succeed, I believe that the right order will be placed..
I'll be happy to share my knowledge with the forum members. |
Tiv . . ., just curious, did you call Paradigm to check if the Sig Be tweeter is a simple drop in. There may be other compatibility issues, e.g., cross-over, driver matching, time and phase coherence, etc. |
Swapping performed.
Swapping was performed from Paradigm Sig 8 v2 speaker.
The good news is that the swap is very simple and quick. realising only 4 screws that hold the tweeter, and connecting the new one.
The bad news is that I'm not completely satisfed with the new sound. it is less twittering therefore in some songs it feels better and in some does not.
I'm adding pictures to illustrate the change.
Original Studio 100 v5 speaker:
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/communafiles/52001770.jpg
The Beryllium tweeter:
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/communafiles/52001761.jpg
Studio 100 after the swap completed:
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/communafiles/52001756.jpg |
Tivanlasik, any updates of what you think or any changes? |
A new 30th anniversary Studio 100 with a berillium tweeter, a new crossover, all new Signature series drivers has just come out $$$. It's not called a Studio 100, the and a new base. The Special Edition Studio model is the Tribute. They also came out with a special edition Studio 20.
That's probably is a prelude of the future Studio v6 lineup. That's the way Paradigm proceeds, trickeling down the performing drivers down to the lower lines of products. The studio tweeter is now showing up in monitor lineup so it's only normal they will start adding the newer drivers to the Studio line as they come up with new drivers in the Signature serie. |
Hi just found this thread on your swap and wondering how you like it now or if you swapped back, I was thinking of doing the same thing with V3 100's I'm running them with a Bryston 14B and a BP20 pre and when I crank it, it gets to bright in the top end. Let me know if your interested in selling them. |
Fyi ... I heard the Paradigm Tribute about 18 months ago at a dealer. I hate to tell you what it did to another A'gon favorite brand speaker when I "A/B'ed" the two speakers using the same amp. If speakers had tails (not tales), the other brand crawled out of the dealer's showroom on its metaphorical woofers.
And the nice part about it was that I didn't need a cranial bubble level, custom cables, or a protractor to listen to the Tribute. I just sat in a chair and listened. By contrast, I felt like I was in an eye doctor's chair with my chin in a fixed position when I listened to the other brand. If I move my head 1 inch, the sound image shifted -- for the worse.
So here's my question to the Forum .... how does Paradigm manage to pack so much speaker into a cabinet and charge so little?? |
I'm an owner of the Paradigm S6 v2. I don't know what their secret is, but they really are onto something with the beryllium. They image like nothing I've owned. |
I know this is an old thread, but feel it is worth resurrecting. FYI, I swap the beryllium tweeters into various Paradigm Signature v1 and Studio speakers. Few of these swaps have included any crossover changes. According to Paradigm a crossover designed for the beryllium tweeter must also be used to get all of the benefits, such as the ability to reproduce up to 45k Hz sounds. I have the utmost respect for Paradigm and believe that they are telling the truth. I also love my cats dearly, but I am playing the music for people, so up into the low 20k hz range is plenty for me (cats hearing goes up to 79k HZ, most humans stop by, or long before 20k).
I have listened to my hybrid speakers next to original Signature v2/v3 speakers and I simply cannot perceive any audible difference between the tweeters with the correct crossover vs the ones designed for PALs (PAL, S-PAL, or G-PAL depending on series and generation). Once again, I am not questioning Paradigm, or the previous poster that wasn't satisfied totally with the swap, but I am completely satisfied, as are all of my customers that have purchased my hybrids, or had me upgrade their personal speakers.
I have swapped beryllium into Signature S8 v1s, Signature C5 v1, Studio 100 v1, v2, and v5, and finally Studio 20 v5. All of those swaps used the original crossovers not designed for beryllium. An interesting case study is the C5, as I did acquire the C5 v2 crossover and upgraded to it later. I didn't perceive any change in the speaker afterward, but assume that its measurements probably changed. I also put beryllium tweeters in Studio 60 v3 and Studio 40 v4 cabinets, but both of those swaps utilized Signature S4 v2 crossovers, which of course were designed for beryllium.
Finally a few last thoughts for anyone considering this swap, including a case study from one of my customers that had me upgrade his own speakers. In my opinion the beryllium tweeters are a big improvement and worth the cost. However, this is relative because I feel once you have entered Paradigm Studio level and above (even Monitor Series 7 for that matter), you have entered the area of diminishing returns. Let's take my Studio 100 v2 customer. His speakers were worth about $800, and he spent $700 for me to swap out his stock PAL tweeters to beryllium and another $100 to upgrade to Studio v3 mids. So he essentially doubled the amount invested in his speakers that were probably 85% as good as S6 v2 to get up to 95% as good. On paper this is kind of a silly investment, but it is the way audio works. If we use the S6 v2 as our 100% mark, the first 50% is pretty cheap, but each 10% gain becomes more and more expensive in a non linear fashion. A pain of 9se mk3 for $200 can get you 50%, Monitor 9 v3 can get you up to 70% for $350, 100 v2 gets 85% for $800, my customer's hybrids get 95% for $1,500 and the S6 v2 are usually in the $2k to $2.5k realm. How about 110%, try Persona 3f for $6k.
So how did my customer feel about his decision. I hooked them up to a mini amp in my driveway and it took less than a minute of a single song for him to smile ear to ear, and be totally glad that he doubled his investment in his speakers. He could have sold his 100s for $800, taken the $800 in upgrade funds, and added another $400 to $900 and actually gotten S6 v2, or of course left his speakers stock. None was a wrong choice, but for him the hybrids were the right call. However, he never even heard the S6 v2, so I have no idea if he would have added an additional (let's say) $800 to trade up to a pair of S6 v2, because I didn't have a pair on hand. The problem is, like him, most have to make these decisions without hearing every option. Even worse, most have to decide with hearing one or less of the options.
In the end you have to decide what you are willing to invest and where you want to end up on the performance scale. The most important variables are your goals and budget. I can try to answer any other questions on this subject or modifying Paradigm speakers in general, but I can only share my opinions, opinions of my friends along with those of my customers. |
Just a quick follow up. A few months ago a repeat customer paid me $550 to trade his stock S8 v1 G-PAL tweeters for beryllium v2 upgrades. He loved the improvement, but due to the birth of his first child he decided to downgrade to a pair of $500 speakers. At this time he sold me the S8s, I thought they sounded much better than they had when I heard them stock, in my opinion it is a no brainer mod for the S8 v1.
So I just sold these to a customer on October 14th and he was absolutely blown away, it was love at first note. How much you ask? Well just this past week he came back and bought a pair of Studio 100 v2 that I had upgraded to Signature v2 beryllium tweeters, Studio v4 mids, and Signature ADP3 bass woofers. He is now in love with both pairs and is enjoying them together in a multi speaker stereo (dual speakers on each channel) music only system. |
I thought the used Avalon Acoustics Eidolons that replaced my Studio 100s were overpriced. With a pair of S8s on hand for audition, within the the first few minutes my family insisted on keeping the Eidolons.
After living with three iterations of Paradigm I would always hear each individual driver doing its job. In a brief listen with Audio Research fed Persona flagship it was the same thing made worse by their onboard powered subwoofers which were improperly located for that room.
I can't hear the individual Eidolon drivers unless I put my ear right up next to them. What do they call that?
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I have Persona 9h...and after running ARC Genesis software the bass is perfect...and this with only 25w SET amplifier. |
