SUT help

@bobsdevices the man himself! Thank's for your insight.

@lewm Thank you for that - nice and simple! Makes total sense. The only reason I've wanted to try one out is to see if it will improve soundstage width/depth. I love the Modwright stage and the MC input is very nice, but I've never tried a SUT, so curiosity is getting the better of me!

@pindac From what I gather, you're referring to a warm vs neutral vs bright/analytical? I usually prefer close to neutral. Musical without being too warm and muddy, but also without being TOO bright and analytical to where it can cause listening fatigue.

Considering my setup is almost all tube, with SET amplification, I need to stay away from adding much coloration earlier in the chain.

Oh - two others that have been mentioned to me in the past:

1. Sound Tradition Live MC-10 (but I don't believe these are still being made?)
2. Sculpture A mini nano

@theflattire I think the Sound Tradition Live MC-10 uses HM-7s, but not totally sure. I can't find any info on it as far as if they are still made. The only pre-made SUTs I can find with HM-7 are Swissonor and they're something like $3300, which is a bit crazy. I do not have the equipment or skills (or confidence to not screw up) trying to make one myself.

I'm not expecting any earth-shattering improvements (mostly everything I'm doing with my system involves small tweaks) but if I end up with a notch up in performance for around $1000-1500, that's fairly cost-effective versus many other upgrades and tweaks!

@theflattire home&scitek on ebay? Interesting. Looks like they just use a kit basically.

@theflattire Thanks for sharing. Pretty simple and clean inside.

@billstevenson Bob's is definitely an option too. Looks like full refunds accepted minus 10% restock fee for 2 weeks. Could be wise to start there since if I can't really discern any real difference or improvements I can just return it. Slightly poorer, but richer in experience.

The custom ones (like the HM-7 one) would definitely be going out on a limb.

@theflattire interesting!

I'm definitely considering the Umami (though I also thought about the Etsuro Cobalt) but I struggle spending $4k (or $6k) on a cart that will have to be replaced every couple years due to wear. The trade in is a 30% discount toward a new one, but still. That's a pretty high recurring cost. Whereas something like a SUT if it offered any improvement lasts pretty much forever. That was my logic, at least. haha.

Side note, it's a bummer that Koetsu is no more. Good thing you got one while you still can!

@lewm That's a very good point!

@billstevenson Agree. I don't want this to turn into a debate on whether one is necessary or sounds different or not, since I'm a pretty firm believer in having to use my own ears to determine that. Even in my own system, what is perceptable to me might not be for others (and visa versa!). I merely want to explore what they have to offer, if anything, beyond the built-in SUT in my MW.

This also brings me to consider, even if I reach out to MW about having something different installed, I have absolutely no clue or reference point on whether anything else would sound different, so it could turn into an expensive back and forth endeavor. It might be better to first experiment with different outboard SET options and if there is one that I like more than the build-in, then I could discuss with MW to see if there is an option to replace.

I may not even perceive any difference on trying one, but mostly just wanted some guidance on how to go about matching with my components and some recommended options to try out.

@tomic601 Sure, but tubes last significantly longer and are significantly cheaper (unless you've got a PSET 300B or something). Cartridges last about 1-2 years max with me as I play quite a bit of records, so the recurring cost there is much more frequent and a lot more expensive. That's all.

@czarivey Sure, and I could probably get a bigger improvement by replacing all of my gear entirely with different, more expensive things, but that's not really the point of this thread. 😂 I'm just curious about SUT options is all, and like Bill touched on in his comment - add 'another tool to the toolbox.' If I try a few and can perceive absolutely no difference, then that'll be the end of that.

Seems I poked the beehive with this topic 😅.

I appreciate all the varying perspectives here. Has given me things to consider.

@tomic601 That is quite true!

I am not of the camp that aspires to absolute purity above all else. Somewhere in the middle is where I like to land, so I’m not quite as concerned about being ’distortion free.’ I mean, most of my gear is tube gear in some capacity...

All that being said, I don’t think there is a right or wrong approach here. Just depends on what sounds good to our ears in our own systems.

I do appreciate hearing lots of different perspectives, however, and it’s given me plenty of things to consider in addition to the answer to my actual original question.

EDIT: also, thank you very much for the compliment!

Okay so maybe time to get back on the rails here...

What exactly is the point here?

None of this is doing any service to my original question, and seems more to be a debate about who is 'right.' The theoretical gear needed (or not needed) to 'prove' or 'disprove' anything is a pointless discussion. Everyone has different gear, rooms, ears, preferences, and opinions. It's also completely irrelevant to my question.

I fully appreciate that there are varying experiences here with SUTs, with some finding some pleasing improvement to their experience, and others not. All are valid experiences.

From answers to my original questions, it seems like finding a SUT with 1:10 and 1:20 options might be best since it sounds like there's been success with both and either should work with various configurations on my phono pre-amp. Some good suggestions on specific models to consider so far, but if anyone else has any other suggestions that might fit the bill, happy to check them out as well. Thank you to all who have provided some guidance on proper matching.

@vacountryboy Since he didn't go into detail at all regarding winding ratios, I wonder if the different 'flavors' he could be referring to may simply just be a difference in gain between the different models - though the perceived difference between the two Audio Note models is interesting as they have the same ratios I believe.

Ultimately what I've gathered from this thread is just that there's no definitive answer here and ends up coming down to individual preference based on how things sound in your home and system. I'm going to try to poke some friends of mine to see if they have any models I could demo in my system just to play around with different things before I make any buying decision.