This morning we had a power surge. First one I ever experienced. It knocked out the sub woofer components of my GoldenEar Triton one speakers. In my ignorance I had them plugged into the wall rather than a surge protector. Soooo it blew the amplifiers in the sub woofers. It’s going to be a costly proposition: $500 for the amplifiers plus God knows how much the dealer is going to charge for coming to my house. (He’s very reluctant to do it, wants me to lug the 80 lbs speakers to the store.
Meanwhile, I’m having to listen to bass-less speakers for the foreseeable future.
So, the moral of the story is plug everything into a surge protector.
Hopefully the electric company will pay something. I’m going to fill out a claim form. I’ll also check out the homeowner policy.
Sounds like lightning was not involved. Surge was caused by the Power Company’s equipment. An SPD, in most cases, will protect from a utility transient spike.
An SPD (Surge Protection Device) will not protect from an over voltage surge that lasts more than a few microseconds to a few milliseconds. They are not designed to.
The foundation for a good SPD to do its’ job as designed is a low resistance electrical service Grounding Electrode System. Therein a low resistance electrical service connection to Mother Earth. IEEE recommends 5 ohms or less.
FYI:
Before you buy a Whole House Type 2 SPD that connects to the main electrical service panel, and or electrical sub panel, read the manufacturer’s warranty fine print.
Many say must be purchased from an authorized dealer.
Must be installed by a Licensed Electrician.
Home owner must file an insurance claim with their home owner’s insurance company first. SPD manufacture pays the remainder, if any, up to the warranty specified limit.
Turning off a branch circuit breaker at an electrical panel is not the same as unplugging the equipment from the wall outlet. Distance...
Take a Square D QO single pole 20 amp breaker. In the open position the two contacts are about 3/4" apart. A several 1000 Volt lightning transient will easily jump that divide... An unplugged power cord from a wall outlet is a lot further than that...
@jea48 , would a several 1000 Volt lightning transient be like a direct hit?
NO. A high voltage lightning transient event lasts no longer than the blink of an eye, at most a few microseconds to milliseconds. For that reason a good SPD must absorb, shunt, divert, a high voltage transient to ground in a nanosecond or less.
Nothing will protect from a direct lightning strike. A direct lightning strike can vaporize a tree.
Here’s an example of where an SPD will not protect.
During a high wind storm a big limb from a tree comes down on a 7.9KV (approx) to ground high voltage power line causing the power line to come into contact with the overhead low voltage 120/240V line that feeds a house’s electrical service. The high voltage line may blow a high voltage fuse or trip a high voltage breaker in a substation if it’s contacting the bare grounded neutral conductor of the overhead triplex but no where near fast enough before damage is done. This is definitely an overvoltage event. Like a lightning direct hit the SPD will fail and not protect what is connected to it. I don’t think it’s going to matter who it’s made by.
FWIW you should be able to check with the Utility Power Company and find out what caused the surge, overvoltage, event that damaged your equipment.
so would the kind of voltage surge/spike that could jump across a tripped circuit breaker be protected from by a surge protector?
If the high voltage event is short, therein not lasting more than few milliseconds then it should. Though I am not familiar the Furman PST-8 SPD. Can it react in one nanosecond or less?
FWIW I spent some time looking if a 6KV lightning transient could jump an air gap of 3/4" and never really found any definitive answer. Answers were all over the place...
I did find this, but it’s not for a high voltage short duration lightning transient. I do know a lightning transient can jump through an air gap of 3/4 of an inch though.
I reached out to Furman support via their website and never heard back. I finally had the time today to call them and they advised that because Amazon isn’t an authorized reseller, there is nothing Furman can do to help me. So while they have a 12-36 month warranty, Amazon only offers a limited 90 day warranty. So if this is something you need for your setup, I suggest you get it from an authorized reseller.
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PST-8 stopped providing surge protection after 3 months of use. The "Protection - OK" LED is no longer lighting up, but the unit is still providing power when switched on. The user manual says the unit needs to be repaired in this case because it is damaged/defective and no longer providing full surge protection. Furman customer support said they cannot help because Amazon is NOT an authorized dealer for this product, so there is no warranty coverage
@jea48- Furman with SMP will protect in both cases you mentioned.
The 135V overvoltage shut down is a great feature.
Furman:
Another feature that is unique to Furman’s SMP circuit is automatic extreme-voltage shutdown. Extreme voltages are statistically the most common, damaging AC event.
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Furman:
Extreme voltages are statistically the most common, damaging AC event.
Exactly. Again, an SPD will not protect equipment from an overvotage event. Can't help but wonder why more manufacurer's don't use this feature in their Type 3 SPD. I mean it ain't like they don't know.... They say in their warranty, damage caused by an Overvoltage is not covered.
And this ???...
Furman SPD Specs:
ComplianceC-UL (UL standard #1449, #1363)
ComplianceC-UL UL standard #1449 ???
1449, what Edition? (3rd Edition), (4th Edition)?
Compliance? Is the Furman SPD UL 1449 (Edition number) Listed, Certified, and or by a recognized NRTL third party testing Laboratory? The specs doesn't really say.
How may have read this? For those with Sub panels for the audio equipment where the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft from the wall outlet to the sub panel.
Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical service panel to the point of utilization, for example cord connected, direct plug-in, receptacle type and SPDs installed at the utilization equipment being protected. The distance (10 meters) is exclusive of conductors provided with or used to attach SPDs.
At the very least a good quality type 2 SPD should be installed, connected, to the sub panel.
Sounds like a cord and plug Type 3 SPD will do little, if anything, for protecting audio equipment from a high voltage transient event if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft long.
I want to point out that we’re deep into the "what if" situations that are not the major cases.
From Furman info:
Extreme voltages are statistically the most common, damaging AC event.
Seems like every other day there are bad storms from the southeast up through the northeast. In many cases the storms produce high winds that are bringing down high voltage power lines. ( Subject Not for homes in the direct path of Tornadoes of course.) I would imagine the downed high voltage power lines are not causing high overvoltage on the mains wiring of houses.
One thing that can help to limit the very high-voltage from entering on the mains wiring in the house is a 5 ohms or less to soil Grounding Electrode system. (Grounding Electrode System. The grounding connecting the Electrical Service Entrance Neutral Conductor to Mother Earth, making it the Grounded Conductor.)
Simple OHMS LAW... The lower the Grounding Electrode to soil resistance the lower the high-voltage that can enter on the house mains wiring.
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2020 NEC
Quote:
250.4 (A) Grounded Systems.
(1) Electrical System Grounding. Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.
End of quote.
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A couple of years ago I experienced a weird event. Day was sunny, little to no wind. I just happened to be sitting at the computer all of a sudden the ceiling lights in the Den started dimming quickly followed by a loud buzzing sound from the two small speakers on each side of the monitor. Scared the heck out of me. Power in the house went off but only it seemed like a few seconds, then the power came back on followed by the loud buzzing again from the two speakers, followed by the power going off again. Then in just a matter of a few seconds it came back on. I jumped out of my seat but before I could get to SPD plug strip the power was back on and before I could pull the plug at the wall outlet the load buzz from the speakers started again. This time the power went off again and stayed off. I immediately went to the basement mechanical room and shut off the Main 200A breaker. I had no idea what had just happened...
I believe this was the Utility Power Company's piece of equipment that was turning the power back on. Three times it tried.
Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical service panel to the point of utilization, for example cord connected, direct plug-in, receptacle type and SPDs installed at the utilization equipment being protected. The distance (10 meters) is exclusive of conductors provided with or used to attach SPDs.
At the very least a good quality type 2 SPD should be installed, connected, to the sub panel.
Sounds like a cord and plug Type 3 SPD will do little, if anything, for protecting audio equipment from a high voltage transient event if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft long.
EDIT: if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft from the electrical panel.
Based on other readings in the NEC, my understanding is that when the NEC includes minimum wiring distance as important they are considering the total amp interrupt rating. That is, if a short should occur, will it cause too much current for the upstream breakers. They are not making a statement about the effectiveness of the surge protector. They are saying you should keep it far enough away to ensure when the protector does work it won’t overload the breakers.
It would be great if the SPD tripped the circuit breaker, it won’t. The MOV(s) will fail first.
Actually a longer distance, length of the branch circuit wiring, from the electrical panel is a good thing for a Type 3 SPD. Ever wonder why many SPD’s usually have at least an 8ft power cord. At least many of the UL Listed, Certified, ones do.
* (When you read something like, Meets UL1449 does not mean the SPD is UL Listed.)
Also worth mentioning a type 3 SPD should not be used as the primary protection for equipment. A Type 2 should be installed at every electrical panel in the home. Therein main service equipment panel and at every sub panel there after. The Type 2 SPD is the first Line of defense. The Type 3 hopefully catches what the Type 2 misses.
From the Link below:
Issue:
Why does my Surge Arrest manual indicate the following?
CAUTION: Do not install this device if there is not at least 10 meters (30 feet) or more of wire between the electrical outlet and the electrical service panel.
Minimum install distance of 10 meters (30ft) from electrical panel.
Think of it as the NEC minimum distance between ground rods is 6ft. Further apart is ok (preferred), but not less than 6ft apart.
In the case of SMP devices, this is not an issue as they block current instead of encouraging it as MOV’s do.
MOVs don’t block current. They absorb, clamp, divert, high voltage transients to ground.
From Furman info:
The PST-8D all feature Furman’s SMP circuit which incorporates Linear Filtering Technology (LiFT) and a high current TVZ-MOV to insure that any electronic device (including televisions, projectors, CD-DVD players, or computers) is fed clean, filtered AC power.
Again, if you are questioning the effectiveness of Furman devices,
Again??? Why would you say that?
jea48 Posted:
The 135V overvoltage shut down is a great feature.
Furman:
Another feature that is unique to Furman’s SMP circuit is automatic extreme-voltage shutdown. Extreme voltages are statistically the most common, damaging AC event.
.
Furman:
Extreme voltages are statistically the most common, damaging AC event.
Exactly. Again, an SPD will not protect equipment from an overvotage event. Can’t help but wonder why more manufacurer’s don’t use this feature in their Type 3 SPD. I mean it ain’t like they don’t know.... They say in their warranty, damage caused by an Overvoltage is not covered.
That was meant as a a thumbs up for the Furman SPD .
Again as I said in my above post you question, I said:
The 135V overvoltage shut down is a great feature.
As for me questioning the UL1449 specs for the Furman I hoped you would have an answer. I couldn’t find a clarification. I thought maybe you might.
Again, if you are questioning the effectiveness of Furman devices, I encourage you to read the full Wirecutter article and their testing methods.
I did read it...
Wirecutter review:
Our top pick will protect most equipment in most cases. But the Furman Power Station 8 (PST-8) goes further, providing the best surge suppression of any model we tested—enough to give owners of very expensive electronics peace of mind.
It turned a 5,000-volt surge into just 40 volts, thanks in part to a shutdown circuit that turns off all power when it detects a surge. The Furman PST-8 actually let less voltage through in our tests than high-end series-mode surge eliminators that can cost hundreds more.
It turned a 5,000-volt surge into just 40 volts, thanks in part to a shutdown circuit that turns off all power when it detects a surge.
Can you please explain the above sentence what that means to you?
DESCRIPTION
Our Thermo-Fuse Varistor (TVZ) is a family of Transient Voltage Surge Suppression products. TVZ is a three-lead Thermally Protected Metal Oxide Varistor. One lead of the TVZ varistor is connected to a thermal fuse, it will automatically open-circuit when the varistor is under sustained abnormal over-voltage condition. The TVZ series is designed to meet the abnormal over-voltage requirements of UL 1449, Section 37.
Traditional Metal Oxide Varistor (MOV) withstands 150% of its rated voltage for a given duration.
But MOV may fail to a short-circuit condition or fail open when subjected to sustained steady-state over-voltage above its rated specifications.
Our TVZ has a thermal fuse incorporated with its MOV disk that responds to the MOV temperature and disconnects the MOV from power should the temperature exceed a certain level.
Our TVZ provides a real “Fail Safe” protection to sensitive downstream electric components.
As for this from a post of mine above on 05-13-2024 at 10:55am
jea48 Said:
For those with Sub panels for the audio equipment where the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft from the wall outlet to the sub panel.
Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical service panel to the point of utilization, for example cord connected, direct plug-in, receptacle type and SPDs installed at the utilization equipment being protected. The distance (10 meters) is exclusive of conductors provided with or used to attach SPDs.
At the very least a good quality type 2 SPD should be installed, connected, to the sub panel.
Sounds like a cord and plug Type 3 SPD will do little, if anything, for protecting audio equipment from a high voltage transient event if the branch circuit wiring is less than 30ft long.
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Type 3 - Point of utilization SPDs, installed at a minimum conductor length of 10 meters (30 feet) from the electrical SERVICE PANEL to the point of utilization,
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"electrical service panel". UL1449 (3rd Edition) Type 3 SPD says nothing about a sub panel. Because it says nothing about a sub panel then the minimum 10meters, 30ft branch circuit conductor length does not apply. Sounds nuts to me but that’s the way I understand it.
In my search I looked in the 2020 NEC for anything that would shed some light on the subject. Why was a sub panel not in the language of the UL1449 rule for a Type 3 SPD?
I am pretty sure the reason for the minimum 30ft length of the branch circuit wiring has to do with the impedance/resistance of the conductor. ( It works as current limiter.)
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Fault current:
2020 NEC 110.9 Interrupting Rating.
Equipment intended to interrupt current at fault levels shall have an interrupting rating at nominal circuit voltage at least equal to the current that is available at the line terminals of the equipment.
Equipment intended to interrupt current at other than fault levels shall have an interrupting rating at nominal circuit voltage at least equal to the current that must be interrupted.
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110.10 Circuit Impedance, Short-Circuit Current Ratings, And Other Characteristics.
The overcurrent protective devices, the total impedance, the equipment short-circuit current ratings, and other characteristics of the circuit to be protected shall be selected and coordinated to permit the circuit protective devices used to clear a fault to do so without extensive damage to the electrical equipment of the circuit. This fault shall be assumed to be either between two or more of the circuit conductors or between any circuit conductor and the equipment grounding conductor(s) permitted in 250.118. Listed equipment applied in accordance with their listing shall be considered to meet the requirements of this section.
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Impedance. The impedance of the minimum length of 30ft for a branch circuit wiring works as a current limiter? So a longer branch circuit wiring, just a guess, would be better. More impedance...
Just a guess ANSI / IEEE / UL used the impedance of #14AWG or #12AWG in their calculation. Wonder what happens when the branch circuit conductors are #10AWG. ??? Nothing, no difference???
Still doesn’t answer the question about a sub panel.
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2020 NEC 230.67 Surge Protection. ( N = New for the 2020 Code edition.)
N 230.67 Surge Protection.
N (A) Surge-Protective Device. All services supplying dwelling units shall be provided with a surge-protective device (SPD).
N (B) Location. The SPD shall be an integral part of the service equipment or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto.
Exception: The SPD shall not be required to be located in the service equipment as required in (B) if located at each next level distribution equipment downstream toward the load.
N (C) Type. The SPD shall be a Type 1 or Type 2 SPD.
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The Exception tells us it doesn’t have to be installed at the service equipment if it is installed at the sub panel(s).
Nothing here as for the UL1449 3rd Edition Type 3 SPD minimum 30ft branch circuit length for the conductors. You are required to have a type 1 or type 2 at the main electrical service equipment/panel or down stream sub panel(s).
Theory:
Impedance. A Type 3 SPD is not capable of absorbing, clamping, or diverting to ground a large surge of energy as the bigger Type 1 or Type 2 SPD. Thus the above 30ft minimum length rule when the branch circuit is feed from the main electrical service panel. The further away from the main service electrical panel the Type 3 SPD is the higher the impedance of the conductors the Type 3 SPD will be plugged into.
Even the feeder that feeds a sub panel will add impedance. Maybe that’s why a sub panel is not mentioned in the UL1449 3rd Edition for a Type 3 SPD. ANSI / IEEE / UL took into account the total length of the sub panel feeder plus the branch circuit wiring. Don’t know...
One thing for sure, at least the way I see it, If the sub panel is within a few feet of the main service equipment panel I would treat the sub panel as a main electrical service panel. YMMV.
I run this wired/mounted external and away from the circuit box:
"and away from the circuit box:"
What do you mean away from the circuit box?
I assume the SPD is mounted directly to the electrical panel. Leads are short not longer than 6" per the manufacturer’s recommendations. There is a reason to keep the leads as short as possible, without making sharp bends in the wires, for a Type 1 and Type 2 SPD.
Watch this video. It shows you why they are kept short.
FWIW, I attended a Surge Protection Seminar where the same piece of equipment was used for the test. The unit generates a 6000V, 3000A transient surge that lasts only a few micro seconds when the test button is pushed. Without the SPD, in the blink of an eye, the filament was vaporized in the incandescent light bulb. And yes distance matters as the above video shows.
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EP-2050 Series INSTALLATION GUIDE 5
Mounting
For optimal performance, mount EP product as close to
electrical panel as possible. Longer wire increases inductance
in the system and the EP unit may not function properly.
Make sure the EP product is mounted in a dry and clean
environment. The EP unit can be mounted in any secure area
above, below, beside or inside the electrical panel.
For optimal performance:
• EP-2050 should be connected no more than
6 inches from electrical panel.
@jea48 , sorry if it seems as if I am beating this circuit breaker thing to death, but am I correct in assuming that the type of surge that the OP of this thread probably experienced would NOT have been one that would have jumped across a tripped breaker?
Hopefully the electric company will pay something. I’m going to fill out a claim form. I’ll also check out the homeowner policy.
@immatthewj, going from what @rvpianosaid above he apparently believes the power surge event was not related to lightning. (I mean the OP would know if there was a thunderstorm going on during the event.) Utility Power Companies do not pay for damage caused by lightning.
The power company will know if they had a power surge problem at the day and approximate time of the event in the OP’s area where he lives.
Note the OP posted his thread on 5/9 of this month and has not posted to date that he lost any other electrical items in his home. To me, jmo, if their was a utility company power surge it was not a high-voltage, like a 1,000Vac or 1,000s of volts. The OP would have lost other electrical items, things, in his home.
We don’t know if the surge was not caused by something in his home. Most high-voltage transient surges are generated in the home.
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As for this:
am I correct in assuming that the type of surge that the OP of this thread probably experienced would NOT have been one that would have jumped across a tripped breaker?
I have no idea. A high voltage in the thousands of volts will flash over. We have no idea what voltage caused the damaged.
Now if we were talking about the fault current interrupting rating of the breakers in your electrical panel they are more than likely 10KA. What that means in the event of a bolted Line to Line short or a bolted Hot Line to EG (Equipment Ground) ground fault the breaker will trip open and and not arc across the contacts up to 10KA.
Watch this video. You have no idea how much power, available fault current, the utility power transformer that feeds your house can supply to the AC main’s wiring in the event of a bolted fault. Take note, distance, length, of wiring matters.Conductor Impedance.
The only time I ever unplug my gear is if there is going to be thunderstorms. And of course I unplug the gear if I go on Vacation, among other things in the house.
You might want to invest good Whole House Type 2 SPD for the main electrical service panel. That’s the first line of defense. A type 3 SPD is the 2nd line of defense.
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
No sound! Evidently the Furman caused the amp to stop working!
New amps plugged directly into the wall. "Things sounded great.
We don’t know how long the OP listened to the speakers but I would imagine more than just a few minutes. Me, maybe an hour or more at least...
OP said:
I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out.
Just a guess the other speaker still works fine plugged directly into the wall outlet. Just a guess there is not any problem with his AC mains power at the wall outlet. But all I can go by is what the OP has posted since receiving the repaired speakers and plugging them both into the wall outlet and listening to them both. He said they sounded great...
I did a quick search on the Net looking for any info on the subwoofer amplifier in the GoldenEar Triton one speakers. All I could find, they are 1600 Watts Class D amps.
Couldn’t find much on the Net on how much AC power a 1600W class D amp draws. All I found was at 120Vac 33.3A pushing it full bore, I assume. Just a guess the user, listener, ears would be bleeding long before he got to continuous full bore.
I know squat about Class D amps. I have no idea how much current, amps, they draw on startup. Maybe someone reading this post does. Do they even have any inrush current to speak of... ???
I tried finding the wire gauge size of the 8ft power cord on Furman PST-8 SPD. I couldn’t find anything. Furman Lit says it has an 8ft captive power cord but nothing about the wire gauge. Looking at a photo the cord thickness of the power cord doesn’t look like it’s 14AWG. You want to limit current use an 8ft cord that is 16awg or smaller 18AWG. You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current. (We are Not talking about an induction type motor load here).
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JMHO, not having more information to attempt to make an educated guess what caused the damage to the subwoofer amplifier, from what little bit that has been said and limited info found on the Net, I think the Amplifier was damaged from undervoltage. I just don’t think the Furman SPD was designed, manufactured, for a 1600W Class D amplifier to be connected to it. I just don’t think it could handle the turn on inrush current. The voltage sagged to who knows how low. The subwoofer amp may have voltage regulators that failed because the voltage went lower than what they were designed for. All speculation on my part though.
One thing for sure. I wouldn’t plug a descent size power amp into a Type 3 SPD. Unless the SPD says it is designed for a high inrush current load(s).
If your power goes out, unplug all electronic devices before it comes back on. When power is restored, the rush of electricity may overwhelm your appliances. Wait several minutes to plug your devices back in after you have power again.
Yeah, unplug about everything in the house.
When the power goes out, (If I’m home), I head for the mechanical room and turn off the main 200A breaker. When the power comes back on I wait a little while to make sure it is going to stay on and when it has stabilized, I then turn the Main breaker back on.
When power first comes back on Line it pretty much see a dead short. Unbelievable inrush current. You got all that motor driven stuff out there trying to start up at the same time. Current amps shoot way up at first then it starts to level off. Only problem is the Voltage overshoots the normal nominal voltage and the overvoltage is what causes damage to electronics. A Type 1 or Type 2 SPD will not protect squat from an overvoltage lasting more than a few milliseconds. The overvoltage event lasts more than just a few milliseconds...
That’s when the user screams the loudest. What a piece scrap. Junk, Do not buy. The XXX SPD didn’t work and I lost, $$$$. One star rating! (Just a guess the SPD failed during a power outage.)
The Furman Type 3 SPD might save the audio equipment but it won’t save any of the rest of the electrical stuff in the house. About the only appliance, that I can think of, found in a home today that doesn’t have a microprocessor in it is a sliced bread toaster.
What I don’t understand are those who only focus on direct strikes, cause that’s rarely been how I lost gear.
If you mean a direct lightning strike nothing will protect your home.
A Type 1 or Type 2 SPD will only protect from a nearby lightning strike.
I will say though I have heard where a commercial/industrial grade SPD, (High Dollar Type 2 SPD), did protect equipment. It did sacrifice itself doing so though.
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The only actual lightning direct strike to a house that I know of first hand, well actually the lightning strike hit a tree close to the house first, then the house.
A cousin of my wife’s decided to take a bath while there was a thunderstorm going on.
Lightning hit the tree, jumped to the house, traveled down steel siding, passed through the wood stud outside wall and hit the cast iron bathtub he was in. He lived to tell the story. He said it took for ever to get the metallic taste out of his mouth.
Needless to say he no longer takes a bath during a thunderstorm.
I had the new amps for the subwoofer installed yesterday with the plugs in the wall socket, and things sounded great. I then plugged one of them into the Furman. The light on the amp flickered and then went out. I plugged it back into the wall. Same thing happened
Oh boy...
Same thing happened
What do you mean the same thing happened? The light on the amp flickered and then went out ?
I assume the power inlet for the amp is an IEC. Make sure the power cord female IEC connector is pushed in all the way on the male inlet blades. Pray that’s the problem...
If not.
Just a guess the Furman PST-8 couldn’t handle the inrush current demand of the sub woofer amp causing a large voltage drop to the power supply of the amp. But that’s only guess.
Questions:
How many watts into 8 ohms, or 4 ohms, is the amp rated for? Just trying to find out how big the power supply is. On the back of the amp does it give an AC power consumption wattage number. Or maybe an FLA rating. If the amps are big output wattage amps any idea if they are across the line power on amps or have a soft start circuit that limits inrush current on AC power turn on.
Where did you buy the Furman PST-D8? Hopefully from an authorized Dealer. The PST-8 photos show a captive 8ft power cord. I couldn’t find any info on the wire gauge though. Hopefully Furman used 14awg. But they wouldn’t have to. It could be 16ga. Anyway it will say on the outer jacket of the cord. Check to see what it says. 8ft of 14ga will have less of a voltage drop during a high inrush current event than 8ft of 16ga.
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FWIW, I have two ARC VT50 tube power amps. They are across the Line for power turn on. Several years ago I checked each amp for turn on inrush current with a clamp amp meter and measured 45 amps. Instantaneous peak inrush amps would have been higher than 45 amps. I would never try to plug one of the amps into Type 3 SPD. YMMV...
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage.
I think this may very well be location dependent. Living in SC, I randomly asked a few people who are NOT techno or audiophiles if they’ve lost equipment to power surges and everyone I asked had. One both in the Berkshires and in South Carolina.
I’ve lost gear or been present when gear went bad half a dozen times in my life. In the last 3 years alone I’ve lost a laptop (plugged in directly) and a cable modem to surges. When I moved in there was in fact a burnt out surge protector still screwed into an outlet, presumably where a TV had been. I lose power about 4x a year due to storms, plus we have about 3 power incidents per year not related to storms when the power goes out or my UPS on my computer has to intervene or my Furman shuts the power off to the stereo or both.
@erik_squireshit the nail on the head. "location dependent"
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
What’s that tell you?
I did a google search last night for the city you live in PA. Nice town. Small population. Great weather. Never too hot, never too cold. Just right... Lightning storms, some. Nothing like Florida.
Power outages? Got a lot squirrels where you live? Would you believe they can cause power outages? Some how they can climb up a power pole and jump onto a high-voltage power line and run down the high-voltage wire without a care in the World. Then the squirrel comes to a Power Transformer hanging on a power pole. He works his way down the high-voltage wire to the insulator on top of the transformer. The squirrel steps from the HOT High-Voltage Line to the Grounded metal top of the transformer.
Sometimes the resistance of the squirrel is low enough to cause the high-voltage protection fuse ahead of the transformer to blow. Sometimes it doesn’t. If you have one of these you might experience the power go OFF and ON up to three times. If the ground fault is not cleared, (squirrel is vaporized, or is no longer conductive), after the third time the power is automatically switched off. At that point it must be manually reset. That is after a Lineman removes what’s left of the squirrel.
Has anything changed, with your AC mains power that feeds your equipment? Any more thunderstorms, since you started reading Audiogon Forum posts? No...
As far as power going out and coming right back on, or going out and staying out 5 or 10 minutes or an hour, that happens here in western Pa. all the time, and often there is no apparent reason, such as a T’storm, for it. In the past I did not unplug my equipment, and in the days of yore I did not even trip my breaker. That wave of paranoia started quite recently. Probably since I started reading posts here.
I will say that I have never experienced any component or appliance damage. But I am not arguing with you guys about it. I never started wearing my seat belt until I lost my drivers license for a year when I was 31, and I never was injured or killed in a car wreck, but I was lucky and I know that they save lives. I guess I have been lucky with my appliances and components as well.
JMHO, continue using the circuit breaker at the electrical panel to kill the power that feeds the wall outlet that your audio equipment is plugged into, as you have apparently been doing for years.
You want to limit current use an 8ft cord that is 16awg or smaller 18AWG. You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current. (We are Not talking about an induction type motor load here).
You will limit current but there will also be a voltage drop, times 2, proportional to the load current.
times 2,
The length of the Hot and neutral conductors in the 8ft cord
Had this installed a few months ago after a surge ruined a few appliances in my home. Recently a tree fell across the power lines across the street from my house causing a surge which blew up 4 breakers, another coffee machine, garage door opener, printer, and a few other small appliances. The damage was around $900. When the electrician contacted Siemens they told him the suppressor doesn’t cover a “sustained surge”? The unit seems totally fine lights are still green, it would have been nice if it at least fried the unit in the process but it did nothing. Don’t waste your money I just installed surge protected wall outlets at all my small appliances for $100 for 5 which seems more worth it. My neighbor installed a similar seimens unit at his house and his heat pump motor and circuit board blew also.
Amazon.com review (Go to the Website and click on the picture of the panel)
Sustained High-Voltage from the high-voltage HOT Line that feeds the primary winding of the stepdown power transformer.
In my area that High-Line-Voltage is around 7.9KVac to the grounded neutral conductor. YMMV.
For overhead fed electrical services at the pole power transformer both the High-Voltage neutral and secondary low voltage neutral conductors are bonded together and then connected to earth by a ground wire that fastens to the pole to a ground rod or metal plate on the bottom of the pole. Every Utility Power Transformer is done this way. Be it a pole transformer or pad mount transformer. Grounded Neutrals connects to earth everywhere, at your house too.... Stray voltages running through the earth everywhere... (Kind of makes you want to drive a dedicated ground rod for your audio system...)
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I can’t help but wonder if his Electrician, that installed the Siemens SPD, bothered to check the Electrical Service’s Grounding Electrode System. (Therein the connection to mother earth.) IEEE recommends a ground rod to soil resistance of 5 ohms or less for a reason. To get the High-Voltage fault current back to the source as quickly as possible, not into your home... (The lower the rod to soil resistance the greater the fault current, amps, back to the source. Simple OHMS LAW.) Source being the Utility Power Company’s High-Voltage Grounded neutral conductor. (The primary winding of the stepdown power transformer is fed from one of 3 Hot power lines, ( 3PH 4wire WYE 13.8KV power from a substation), and its’ common grounded neutral conductor. Think of as the 120V in your home. One Hot of two Hot ungrounded conductors and the common grounded neutral conductor.
I read a lot of the Amazon.com one star negative reviews and it was clear, at least to me, that Siemens was being blamed when the blame should have been directed at Amazon.com. Siemens doesn’t sell old outdated SPDs nor does Siemens sell returned used SPDs. It’s obvious that Amazon.com does.
Amazon.com is not an Authorized Dealer, seller, of Siemens SPDs.
Amazon.com is damaging Siemens name, imo.
I don’t know if the Siemens that makes SPDs is the same Siemens Company headquartered in Germany. They are huge around the world.
You would think that Siemens would stop Amazon.com from damaging their name.
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As for Home Depot and Lowe’s they are authorized dealers, sellers, of Siemens SPDs.
They're not doing the shady practices that Amazon.com is doing.
That would explain the better reviews given at Home depot and Lowe’s.
They are selling new current production, manufactured, Siemens SPDs in factory fresh packaging I would imagine.
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