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surface noise and cartridge/ phono pre questions

Ok, here it goes. I'm very green to analog but thanks to Agon, I have so far been lead in the right direction. I'll cut the bull and get to it.
I'm currently using a Music Hall 5.1se, AT140LC cart, Musical Suroundings Nova Phonomena phono pre with a DIY phono interconnect. I'm loading the cart at 50k, gain at 40db, going into a AE-3 pre. I've made many adjustments to VTA (SRA), VTF....etc. currently I'm at approx -2degrees on VTA and 1.46g on VTF. I also tried a Shure V15 IV w/ ed saunders stylus, never could get it to sound right to me.
I'm very happy with the sound now and I think it's really close to the proper set up. I have Alison Krauss "So Long So Wrong" last 2 tracks of side 2 sounding sweet!!! The problem....I seam to be getting surface noise and pops with recordings that I would think should be better.
My main question. I tried using a lower cart loading, (2k) obviously this is to low, sounds super clean, black and quiet. Again, obviously, the highs totally diminish. Any suggestions on a direction I should go to obtain this sort of quietness without losing my high end?
I'm very new to this and learning daily but if I'm chasing my tail with my phono pre, cart, tonearm compatibilty, I'm open for suggestions. The more I read on here, it's sounding like this could be the difference in a really good phono pre. I really like the sound of the AT140 and feel that it is a good match for my humble tonearm and system. I'm curious on what you guys think and suggest.
If this is not enough info, I'll try to give more.
Just a quick note, I just hooked up the AE-3 pre last night and It's really something else for such an inexpensive investment. Great match for my SET45.
1gear
john_tracy
341 posts
 
"First, attempting to address vinyl clicks and pops by adjusting cartridge loading (or any other setup parameter) is fundamentally unsound."

If improper loading results in a high frequency resonance (for example loading a MM cart. with too much capacitance) then yes it can highlight surface noise through "ringing". Ultrasonic impulses will excite this resonance and the ringing will shift this noise down in frequency to that of the resonance. If this resonance is in the audible range then it will make a record sound more noisy. You might want to measure the capacitance of you phono cables and read Jim Hagerman"s paper on cart. loading for some guidance.
rotarius
431 posts
 
Hello Lgear, glad you are enjoying the 140LC. Since you got it from me, let me add that AT line contact and microline stylii really need to be perpendicular to the groove to produce best results. Even if the angle is slightly off, the surface noise tends to increase quite a bit. But once set up right, they are much quieter than elliptical stylii. If the azimuth is off, generally one channel is noisier than the other, sometimes the tweeter will sound spitty in that channel instead of just hearing the hiss. Like others have said, even new vinyl needs a good cleaning before play. I got good results using a steam cleaner from walgreens prior to the spin clean btw.
1gear OP
9 posts
 
I want to thank you for all of the suggestions. The general consensus seams to be very clean vinyl is the foundation to start with in the chain.

Swampwalker,
I checked out the ZYX and I'm very interested in it for sure. Thanks for the hot tip!!

I think I've decided to get a cleaning machine, some recommended fluid and see how it goes with the Nova Phonomena. If Santa is good, maybe the ZYX will still be available and I can purchase it after Christmas.

In the mean time, I'm addicted to vinyl and am excited to keep improving my rig with the help that I get from all of you Agon'rs.

Happy Holidays to you all and again, thank you for all the help from everyone.

BTW Rotarius, you have helped my system more than you know!!!! Thanks again.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,793 posts
 
Doug is correct- the design of the phono section can influence ticks and pops and this has nothing to do with bandwidth.

I can take it a step further- if the phono section uses loop feedback for the RIAA curve, it will enhance ticks and pops. If the EQ is done by passive means and otherwise the phono section has no loop feedback, that will also have the least ticks and pops.
kevvwill
70 posts
 
I'm going to blaspheme here, and say over the years I have heard LOTS of phono stages, from mega-bucks to budget, and ticks and pops are ticks and pops. Some make them a tad less audible, some sort of float them out in the soundstage, others put them at the speaker instead of out in the soundstage, so that you notice them less.

But ticks and pops simply are. And if they're there, you're going to hear them. Only question is where and how intrusive, which is more a function of the record, vinyl quality and cleanliness than anything else.

I'd explore various cleaning solutions, and go from there. It's a lot less expensive than buying a new phono stage, unless you just have a hankering for one.
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