Subwoofers and Phase Question For You Sub Experts


I use a pair of Dunlavy SC-3 speakers, known for their time/phase coherent crossover design.

When the stars align the speakers completely disappear and there’s a sense of space and 3 dimensionality that I’ve heard from few other speakers/systems. It’s easy to destroy the illusion with things like poor placement, poor setup of room treatments, etc.

Adding subs to the setup is both a blessing and a curse. The Dunlavy’s need some support in the nether regions and a pair of HSU subs do add a solid foundation to music which enhances the overall presentation; however, it’s at the expense of some stage depth, width and image dimensionality. Placing the subs a few inches forward of the front plane of the speakers helps a little but that isn’t where they perform at their best as ‘subwoofers’.
Finding optimal room positions for bass augmentation always creates a clash with the phase aspect of integration resulting in the diminished soundstage described above.
Playing with phase settings has little impact on the problem since there’s just a toggle for 0 and 180.

Which brings me to the questions - 
1/ How does running a swarm setup, with 4 subs, affect phase/time integration with the mains? Does it create twice or half the issue or remove it altogether?

2/ Looking at subs such as the JL Audio F series with auto room calibration, does the EQ algorithm compensate for any time/phase anomaly or is it simply looking for a more linear bass response?

I don’t mind investing in more sophisticated subs so long as I don’t end up with the same problem. I’m not really inclined to mess with software and the like, unless there’s no other way.

Thanks

Rooze


rooze

Showing 2 responses by ctsooner

Thanks Duke.  I spoke with Richard Vandersteen about your thoughts and he totally agrees.  I have a difficult room and I upgrade to the Vandy Quatro's over my older Treo's (gdrbob purchased them and uses a sub). Being able to address the bass in the analog domain (11 band EQ worked GREAT). I also only sit in the sweet spot.  

I"m been wondering if I should get two more Vandy subs (with the same EQ) to do a 'swarm'.  If I didn't have Vandy's, I'm sure I'd have 4 of Dukes subs.  He sent me info on them and I was blown away by what you get for the price.  

Duke is very much respected by all the designers I'm friendly with in the industry and his input is appreciated.  Happy New Year all
The other things I love about the Vandersteen approach to subs is the way he his amps/x overs mimic the sound of the main amp.  If you spend money on a very expensive amp, his sub amps (AB type) mimic the sound so you don't have that fight either.  It does make a difference to my ears.  

I personally don't like any of the DSP I've heard as it takes away from the sound.  Some are bette than others, but even at the stores that sell DSP, most agree, but it's so easy to set up and most don't listen for the differences as they want it to sound better than analog EQ. ;)