Subwoofers and Phase Question For You Sub Experts


I use a pair of Dunlavy SC-3 speakers, known for their time/phase coherent crossover design.

When the stars align the speakers completely disappear and there’s a sense of space and 3 dimensionality that I’ve heard from few other speakers/systems. It’s easy to destroy the illusion with things like poor placement, poor setup of room treatments, etc.

Adding subs to the setup is both a blessing and a curse. The Dunlavy’s need some support in the nether regions and a pair of HSU subs do add a solid foundation to music which enhances the overall presentation; however, it’s at the expense of some stage depth, width and image dimensionality. Placing the subs a few inches forward of the front plane of the speakers helps a little but that isn’t where they perform at their best as ‘subwoofers’.
Finding optimal room positions for bass augmentation always creates a clash with the phase aspect of integration resulting in the diminished soundstage described above.
Playing with phase settings has little impact on the problem since there’s just a toggle for 0 and 180.

Which brings me to the questions - 
1/ How does running a swarm setup, with 4 subs, affect phase/time integration with the mains? Does it create twice or half the issue or remove it altogether?

2/ Looking at subs such as the JL Audio F series with auto room calibration, does the EQ algorithm compensate for any time/phase anomaly or is it simply looking for a more linear bass response?

I don’t mind investing in more sophisticated subs so long as I don’t end up with the same problem. I’m not really inclined to mess with software and the like, unless there’s no other way.

Thanks

Rooze


rooze

Showing 2 responses by bdp24

In regard to Duke's mention of Jon Dahlquist's conclusion that the trailing edge of a bass tone is of more sonic consequence than is it's leading edge: Danny Richie of GR Research, in one of his Tech Talk Tuesday videos (viewable on You Tube), discusses the matter of "fast" bass. He explains why though woofers don't have to move very fast (in comparison with the other drivers), some woofers do indeed sound subjectively "faster" than others. It is his contention that it is the ability of a woofer to "stop" when the signal does (to "track" the signal) and return to "rest" that makes one woofer sound faster than another. All the GR Research subs employ the Rythmik Audio Servo-Feedback woofers and plate amps, known for their ability to produce "stop on a dime" bass.

Owners of planar loudspeakers, particularly big Magneplanars, know how different planar bass is from dynamic woofer bass. Tauter, leaner, a standup bass sounding more like a string instrument than it does when played by most box woofers, which make the string bass sound a little "plump." It may be that some consider the former type bass reproduction "over-damped"; I don't.

In one video, Danny shows spectral decay displays (waterfall plots) of various drivers and complete loudspeakers, THE most telling loudspeaker measurement in his opinion, the one most predictive of how a driver/loudspeaker will sound. Well worth the time searching for the video. 

"in other words we don't really know how all these things work so just do a bit of each and see what happens."

Now remember, this was posted after a number of posts from Duke, noble100, millercarbon, and others, in which they provided plenty of evidence that we DO know how all these things work.

Poor reading comprehension skills, slow learner, or just plain ol' duh?